NRL Match Thread - Finals - Week 2 - 2021

[Davo5]

Absorbing game with both teams lacking a cutting edge today,Penrith will have to go up a couple of gears next week against Melbourne,something they are capable of.

[unapologetic pedant]

18 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Pass backwards called forwards

That`s because it went to ground where the officials apply their knock-on version of "forward". 

A pass with the same trajectory that remained above ground wouldn`t be called forward.

I call this "Aussie knock-on derangement syndrome". It`s a real thing. The more lower-grade Australian RL you watch, the more you know just how real and deranged a thing it is. It`s possible the same type of psychosis is at the root of the zero Covid policy.

[unapologetic pedant]

TPJ produced a late offload but the play was brought back because Ashley had called Held. Couple of minutes later Ashley allowed a player to be held up and dragged about 5 metres towards the touchline.

Both of these were complete failures to read the tackle. Both give the wrong message on how we want the game to be played. 

In the first case the message is - don`t think of passing out of the tackle.

In the second case the message is - don`t put width in your plays.

[Sports Prophet]

24 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

That`s because it went to ground where the officials apply their knock-on version of "forward". 

A pass with the same trajectory that remained above ground wouldn`t be called forward.

I call this "Aussie knock-on derangement syndrome". It`s a real thing. The more lower-grade Australian RL you watch, the more you know just how real and deranged a thing it is. It`s possible the same type of psychosis is at the root of the zero Covid policy.

Well the worst part of the last ten minutes is being discussed by Sterlo now. Tackler stays down with an ankle injury in back play and the fame stops. He is taken off and then bizarrely there was a Free Interchange.

I assume it was in the rules, but why is it in the rules that this warrants a free interchange?

[The Rocket]

2 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Well the worst part of the last ten minutes is being discussed by Sterlo now. Tackler stays down with an ankle injury in back play and the fame stops. He is taken off and then bizarrely there was a Free Interchange.

I assume it was in the rules, but why is it in the rules that this warrants a free interchange?

I think we`ll her more about that. Cleary obviously mismanaged his interchanges. What happened means that a team can deliberately use up all their interchanges and then have a bloke go down feigning injury and then they get another one ? where does that end ?

If it had of been foul play and a penalty then yes another free interchange by all means, but certainly not for one where the player could well be feigning injury.

[The Rocket]

33 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

That`s because it went to ground where the officials apply their knock-on version of "forward". 

A pass with the same trajectory that remained above ground wouldn`t be called forward.

I call this "Aussie knock-on derangement syndrome". It`s a real thing. The more lower-grade Australian RL you watch, the more you know just how real and deranged a thing it is. It`s possible the same type of psychosis is at the root of the zero Covid policy.

Pedant I think we are definitely seeing some referees trying to give a little more latitude in the ball hitting the ground - automatic knock-on call, but there does seem to be a lot of inconsistency between referees and by individual referees themselves, which I suppose is not surprising given the nature of dropped balls. At least it is a step in the right direction though.

BTW we are approaching 82% first dose now and counting and 50+% double dose, I reckon we could easily hit 90% double dose in a couple of months, all that and only a thousand or so deaths. Bloody terrible isn`t it - all those extra grandparents getting to spend Christmas with the grandkids.

[Sports Prophet]

1 hour ago, The Rocket said:

I think we`ll her more about that. Cleary obviously mismanaged his interchanges. What happened means that a team can deliberately use up all their interchanges and then have a bloke go down feigning injury and then they get another one ? where does that end ?

If it had of been foul play and a penalty then yes another free interchange by all means, but certainly not for one where the player could well be feigning injury.

If that is correct then that is an absolute debacle and disgraceful that the powers that be would even have a loophole to allow such an act of opportunism. 

Shame on them.

[unapologetic pedant]

11 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

If that is correct then that is an absolute debacle and disgraceful that the powers that be would even have a loophole to allow such an act of opportunism. 

Shame on them.

This is a question more appropriate for your blowout thread, but I`ll ask it here for the sake of immediacy -

Would you want 8 games a week like that in the regular season? - Blokes smashing into each other for about 95% of 80 minutes.

Or is there something to be said for good teams playing more football, even if it sometimes blows the score out?

[Sports Prophet]

9 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

This is a question more appropriate for your blowout thread, but I`ll ask it here for the sake of immediacy -

Would you want 8 games a week like that in the regular season? - Blokes smashing into each other for about 95% of 80 minutes.

Or is there something to be said for good teams playing more football, even if it sometimes blows the score out?

Not sure how that relates to the comment you quoted, but all the same, I would definitely want 8 games a week like that. Who wouldn’t? It was the best match I can remember all year. The fact it was elimination only added to the intensity and desperation, which no doubt had a bearing on the game itself anyway.

I don’t really understand the question because I think it would be obvious that almost 99% of the RL loving public would prefer to see 8 games like that a week, rather than a blowout.

[Farmduck]

2 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Well the worst part of the last ten minutes is being discussed by Sterlo now. Tackler stays down with an ankle injury in back play and the fame stops. He is taken off and then bizarrely there was a Free Interchange.

I assume it was in the rules, but why is it in the rules that this warrants a free interchange?

Earlier Pangai had gone off after a tackler was placed on report. That free interchange includes another free interchange to bring him back on - if he comes back. The free interchange wasn't so much Kenny going off the field, it was Pangai coming back on. If it had been any other player coming on it wouldn't have been a free interchange.

If a trainer calls a halt, the injured player must be interchanged or leave the field for at least 2 minutes before coming back on.

[unapologetic pedant]

29 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Not sure how that relates to the comment you quoted

It doesn`t. I made that clear in my first sentence.

 

31 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

I don’t really understand the question because I think it would be obvious that almost 99% of the RL loving public would prefer to see 8 games like that a week, rather than a blowout.

Even allowing for subjective preferences, I`m not convinced enough people really would enjoy games like that week to week. Particularly casual fans and the general public. There has to be a natural limit on how many times you can watch a bloke repetitively smashing into a phalanx of other blokes.

And in relation to the global promotion of RL, I reckon the NRL editors will struggle to find much for their YouTube highlights package from today`s game.

[The Rocket]

4 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Even allowing for subjective preferences, I`m not convinced enough people really would enjoy games like that week to week. Particularly casual fans and the general public. There has to be a natural limit on how many times you can watch a bloke repetitively smashing into a phalanx of other blokes.

And in relation to the global promotion of RL, I reckon the NRL editors will struggle to find much for their YouTube highlights package from today`s game.

It`s an interesting point. 

In games like the one tonight it makes a big difference if you are barracking for one side or the other, then it does become a gripping contest.

Now for the casual viewer are there enough highlights to bring them back, as I said to my son as we watched it the good thing about this game and so many other classic finals games, it`s not that there aren`t any breaks/try scoring opportunities but in classic semi-final fashion those breaks are closed down with sensational last-ditch defence where as in a lesser game they would have scored. And there was a few of those in this game and the tension and tight score only accentuated the drama of those last ditch try savers. So I`m not sure of your argument that this was only a game for the purist or those who had a vested interest.

[unapologetic pedant]

2 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

In games like the one tonight it makes a big difference if you are barracking for one side or the other, then it does become a gripping contest.

Now for the casual viewer are there enough highlights to bring them back, as I said to my son as we watched it the good thing about this game and so many other classic finals games, it`s not that there aren`t any breaks/try scoring opportunities but in classic semi-final fashion those breaks are closed down with sensational last-ditch defence where as in a lesser game they would have scored. And there was a few of those in this game and the tension and tight score only accentuated the drama of those last ditch try savers. So I`m not sure of your argument that this was only a game for the purist or those who had a vested interest.

I enjoyed the game and I have no partial interest in either team. But I suspect like many people I enjoyed it because it was an elimination final. How many?- impossible to know, this is all guesswork.

The question to SP was in his capacity as our resident blowout statistician. - What would 8 games a week of that type through the regular season do for the general popularity of NRL?

[unapologetic pedant]

2 hours ago, The Rocket said:

Pedant I think we are definitely seeing some referees trying to give a little more latitude in the ball hitting the ground - automatic knock-on call, but there does seem to be a lot of inconsistency between referees and by individual referees themselves, which I suppose is not surprising given the nature of dropped balls. At least it is a step in the right direction though.

I just wish someone in a prominent position in administration or media would examine the original purpose of the knock-on rule which was to prevent a player gaining an advantage by promoting the ball towards their opponents` goal-line.

And from that basis, start a debate addressing whether over the past 20 years or so this rationale has got lost in a welter of obsessing over little bobbles and fumbles - to the detriment of the game.

3 hours ago, The Rocket said:

BTW we are approaching 82% first dose now and counting and 50+% double dose, I reckon we could easily hit 90% double dose in a couple of months, all that and only a thousand or so deaths. Bloody terrible isn`t it - all those extra grandparents getting to spend Christmas with the grandkids.

The vaccination policy might be in trouble if the grandparents who have died get to spend Christmas with their grandchildren.

[Sports Prophet]

6 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

It doesn`t. I made that clear in my first sentence.

You could have simply tagged me, not my comment. That was the confusion for me.

6 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Even allowing for subjective preferences, I`m not convinced enough people really would enjoy games like that week to week. Particularly casual fans and the general public. There has to be a natural limit on how many times you can watch a bloke repetitively smashing into a phalanx of other blokes.

The smashing element of that game has no element on the closeness of the contest. I can be equally happy watching a 25-24 match that goes down to the wire like the Roosters v Titans game which was a very different game, but the contest was alive. It doesn’t have to be one point winning margin either. 

I am also not fragile to a few blowouts. It was the shear number of them in the 2021 season that annoyed me. It demonstrated a massive lack of competitiveness, which in my opinion is a primary function of a contest.

Sea Eagles v Roosters for example, there may have been some great play, but any of it that happened in the last 35 minutes I didn’t see because the contest was over. I was not interested in the match anymore. I turned off knowing the game was over and anything overly brilliant that I might have missed, I can see in the highlights.

I also enjoyed the Wallabies v Saffas yesterday. The first Union game I’ve enjoyed in about two years (although my enjoyment was offset but a lot of frustration with the game itself). The match was there to be won, by either side, all the way to the last minute. Much more enjoyable than Manly v Easts from the night before.

That I can be captured by a contest is very different to you. Much like you appear to be captured by the idea to prove my opinion wrong. A futile exercise in itself.

6 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

And in relation to the global promotion of RL, I reckon the NRL editors will struggle to find much for their YouTube highlights package from today`s game.

They found enough for a 4.5 minutes package. Struggle was probably an overstatement.

[Sports Prophet]

6 hours ago, Farmduck said:

Earlier Pangai had gone off after a tackler was placed on report. That free interchange includes another free interchange to bring him back on - if he comes back. The free interchange wasn't so much Kenny going off the field, it was Pangai coming back on. If it had been any other player coming on it wouldn't have been a free interchange.

If a trainer calls a halt, the injured player must be interchanged or leave the field for at least 2 minutes before coming back on.

It occurred to me later why it was a free sub, well noted Farmduck.

In no way should the game have been stopped however. Penrith were shot at that stage and Parra were unfairly stripped of huge momentum that could have led to a better opportunity to win the game than they had by the referee stopping the game for a minute or so.

[unapologetic pedant]

27 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

You could have simply tagged me, not my comment. That was the confusion for me.

I haven`t the faintest idea how to tag anyone. Only a vague idea what tagged means in a tech context.

42 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

That I can be captured by a contest is very different to you. Much like you appear to be captured by the idea to prove my opinion wrong. A futile exercise in itself.

Some people prioritize open play over closeness of contest. Others prioritize closeness of contest over open play. I was asking if there are different priorities between regular season and finals for the second predilection.

No opinion on this is objectively right or wrong. The only objective measures are crowds and ratings.

1 hour ago, Sports Prophet said:

Sea Eagles v Roosters for example, there may have been some great play, but any of it that happened in the last 35 minutes I didn’t see because the contest was over. I was not interested in the match anymore. I turned off knowing the game was over and anything overly brilliant that I might have missed, I can see in the highlights.

This is merely a request for information, not AFL-fan baiting. -

Both AFL prelims were blowouts. Did you lose interest and switch them off?

1 hour ago, Sports Prophet said:

They found enough for a 4.5 minutes package. Struggle was probably an overstatement.

I`ve seen those highlights. The last minute or so is filled by the Panthers` final set of quasi-voluntary tackles and dilatory PTBs. Doubtful whether that will persuade the global YouTube audience that RL is TGG.

On that subject, this is from the RFL`s regulations under "Speed Essential" -

"The play-the-ball must be performed as quickly as possible. Any player who intentionally delays the bringing of the ball into play shall be penalized".

Rigorously applied, that would have given Parra a kick to level the score up yesterday.

[DavidM]

Tremendous tussle between Penrith and Parra . I was really rooting for Parra , their defence was heroic but just lacked edge when they got their chance , Mahoney or Lussick would have made a difference you’d think . Penrith look a bit off from their best and will struggle against Storm IMO . Again I’m well and truly sick of the rule interpretations and the working of them by players , I mean JWH charging into Niukore who tackled him was a joke . Staying down is a big issue . Stopping for a HIA to Blake who was actually off the pitch , and stopping for injuries when you’re teams defending . These things need looking at at the end of the season . And one of the great mysteries of the NRL is why they continue to think Klein is a great ref deserving of big games ?

[Sports Prophet]

11 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

I haven`t the faintest idea how to tag anyone. Only a vague idea what tagged means in a tech context.

Simply use @ and immediately write the name of the individual you are addressing after and it appears like @unapologetic pedant.

11 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

This is merely a request for information, not AFL-fan baiting. -

Both AFL prelims were blowouts. Did you lose interest and switch them off?

Sure did. Contest over, it’s hard to keep me. It’s why I hate 20-20. The game isn’t necessarily won in the first five overs, but it is often lost in the first five.

[unapologetic pedant]

3 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Sure did. Contest over, it’s hard to keep me. It’s why I hate 20-20. The game isn’t necessarily won in the first five overs, but it is often lost in the first five.

I genuinely don`t understand why an AFL fan would switch off big AFL finals simply because the result was no longer in doubt. Maybe it`s an age thing. As a childhood Soccer fan in the 70s the FA Cup final was like Christmas and birthday rolled into one. Some of those games were terrible, but we lapped up every second because the occasion was everything and we rarely got to see live Soccer. 

I can`t stand 20-20 either. Even back in the heyday of 60 or 50 over cricket, if there were a flurry of wickets in the first hour with the new ball, that would usually be terminal for the game as a contest.

There is a parallel with RL worthy of consideration for anybody on your side of this debate.

The reason why various restrictions and gimmicks were consecutively introduced to one-day cricket is because there were long stultified periods in the middle of innings where batting and bowling sides were content for the run-rate to coast along at 3 or 4 an over. 

A similar perfunctory mood can descend on close games of RL. What they call the "arm-wrestle" is part of the game, and for those like me who notice the little things it can be fascinating. All very well at finals time, but if there weren`t much beyond the "arm-wrestle" 8 times a week through the regular season, I`m sure people would be switching off, including your good self. @Sports Prophet 

(BTW, If you want remuneration for tech instruction, send your bank details to @unapologetic pedant)

[Graham]

Worth a read given the comments above:

https://www.sportingnews.com/au/league/news/nrl-2021-parramatta-eels-penrith-panthers-mitchell-moses-jarome-luai-rugby-league-graham-annesley/1x8aggqb7c3ru1k31gw9k5nie9

[DavidM]

Ashley will still get a semi final this week.

[graveyard johnny]

1 hour ago, DavidM said:

Ashley will still get a semi final this week.

hope not

[DavidM]

I enjoyed and agreed with a lot of this

 

[Farmduck]

I'm glad they mentioned the Luai No Try. I try to avoid all this post-game whining but I thought the Parra fans were a little hypocritical in complaining about that one incident with the trainer when they had no problem with the Mitch Moses "obstruction." As you can see on the replay, Matt Burton is already through the Parra defensive line before Moses decides to get "obstructed" by him.

 

Anyhoo, the Panthers trainer was suspended for 1 game and the club fined $25K