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Salford to move to Moor Lane?


The Daddy
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3 hours ago, steve oates said:

 

Is Salford's loss of rich backers, and mounting stadium debts that sees them evicted in the kindest possible manner by their local council "expansion" or is it "Charity"?

Stadium debt? It is the Stadium company, owned by Salford Council and Peel Holdings that has a debt.

Salford rugby collapsed their old debt in the CVA. That was to the Council, a former owner and others.

 

SRD have a deal in which they do not earn any revenues from being at AJ Bell, except for match tickets.

SRD are a community club, lack any uber rich bankers and their revenues are modest in comparison to their rivals..

The Company that owns/runs the stadium is prepared to sell to Sale Sharks and Salford football. The much quoted price is £15m. It is a handy time, given they are almost at the point of re-negotiating a source of commercial contracts at the ground.

Once sold, the new owners intend to charge SRD the full rent, which the club can afford, but at the expense of the playing budget.

Hence Salford council and Salford City, with the support of Sale have proposed SRD move to Moor Lane.

The land at Moor Lane is owned by Salford Council and the stands by Salford football. Talks are on going about this.

If and when SRD move to Moor Lane, then the terms will needed to be agreed. The assumption is that SRD reap the benefit of match day revenues, plus. 

The ground has numerous issues which need to be physically addressed. There is enough land, but it is about what the locals feel, balance with housing, roads, school, car parking and of course who pays for any renovation.

 

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I don't int think moving to Moor Lane is as disastrous as is been made out by some. Yes its a 5k capacity but is an affordable home which can allow the club to stabilise and in future grow. It has nice shinny reds seats for those supporters who like to look at them rather than the game on the pitch and toilets are something can be added. 

Relatively its size has a bigger percentage ratio compared to largest capacity club stadium in SL than when Bournemouth had when they were in the Premier League, so I don't see the issue with a top flight club playing out of it. 

Also, with it been modular, I expect it will be relatively easy to reconfigure.  There is nothing stopping them from making the touch line stand terraced to boost capacity.  

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33 minutes ago, idrewthehaggis said:

Stadium debt? It is the Stadium company, owned by Salford Council and Peel Holdings that has a debt.

Salford rugby collapsed their old debt in the CVA. That was to the Council, a former owner and others.

 

SRD have a deal in which they do not earn any revenues from being at AJ Bell, except for match tickets.

SRD are a community club, lack any uber rich bankers and their revenues are modest in comparison to their rivals..

The Company that owns/runs the stadium is prepared to sell to Sale Sharks and Salford football. The much quoted price is £15m. It is a handy time, given they are almost at the point of re-negotiating a source of commercial contracts at the ground.

Once sold, the new owners intend to charge SRD the full rent, which the club can afford, but at the expense of the playing budget.

Hence Salford council and Salford City, with the support of Sale have proposed SRD move to Moor Lane.

The land at Moor Lane is owned by Salford Council and the stands by Salford football. Talks are on going about this.

If and when SRD move to Moor Lane, then the terms will needed to be agreed. The assumption is that SRD reap the benefit of match day revenues, plus. 

The ground has numerous issues which need to be physically addressed. There is enough land, but it is about what the locals feel, balance with housing, roads, school, car parking and of course who pays for any renovation.

 

Thanks for that overview. When reading it I thought that Salford could turn this situation around in their favour. From a situation where they are currently not getting any matchday revenue to one where they can get sales from drinks, corporate etc and a stadium which is very compact. 

Yes, the stadium does need work but I would imagine that Salford will be trying to negotiate for development that should include increased capacity to 7,000, pitch size modifications and increase by removing a few of the front rows from the stands, corporate and changing room facilities. 

Who knows, could SRD ask for some of these costs be skimmed off from the purchasing price from Sale and the soccer club?

I don't see this as a step backwards but an opportunity to get more revenue from a number of new sources they don't currently have, better match day atmosphere, better transport into the stadium and perhaps an opportunity in the long term to own the stadium.

Edited by The Daddy
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Just now, The Daddy said:

Thanks for that overview. When reading it I thought that Salford could turn this situation around in their favour. From a situation where they are currently not getting any matchday revenue to one where they can get sales from drinks, corporate etc and a stadium which is very compact. 

Yes, the stadium does need work but I would imagine that Salford will be trying to negotiate for development that should include increased capacity to 7,000, pitch size increase by removing a few of the front rows from the stands, corporate and changing room facilities. 

Who knows, could SRD ask for some of these costs be skimmed off from the purchasing price from Sale and the soccer club?

I don't see this as a step backwards but an opportunity to get more revenue from a number of new sources they don't currently have, better match day atmosphere, better transport into the stadium and perhaps an opportunity in the long term to own the stadium.

 

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I don't know about the rights and wrongs of moving to Moor Lane, probably best to leave it to Salford fans to discuss that one, although the location does look a bit limited for expansion such as extending the pitch.

The ground was built by a company called Stadium Solutions. Here's the link to their website.

https://www.stadiumsolutions.co.uk/

Zip-a-dee-doo-dah, zip-a-dee-ay;  My, oh, my, what a wonderful day,

Plenty of sunshine headin' our way;  At Stadiwm Zip World, Colwyn Bay!

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Having been to the old Moor Lane when Swinton played there I can only comment what a total hole it was then and that the fun of 2000 Wire or Saints fans descending on the area for parking is worth a tv channel on its own. As commented on Salford decided not pay rent but players - and have got away with it

 

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Just to clarify - one thing that keeps being mentioned is that there are no toilet facilities at Moor Lane.

There were portaloos when I went so a) it’s not like everyone was s***ing in the woods and b) that’s 100% better than p***ing against a wall like the good old day of the Willows 😉

Not really an issue and you either hire them in or there’s room to build small blocks.

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16 hours ago, sweaty craiq said:

Having been to the old Moor Lane when Swinton played there I can only comment what a total hole it was then and that the fun of 2000 Wire or Saints fans descending on the area for parking is worth a tv channel on its own. As commented on Salford decided not pay rent but players - and have got away with it

 

When Swinton played at Moor Lane, the ground was indeed a toilet (as it was when pre-Man U Old Boys Salford City struggled to attract 50 spectators to games there). No denying, however, it's much smarter now, even if a lot of the revamp is superficial. Last time I visited, a couple of years ago, to the obvious consternation of residents, Salford City and Hartlepool United fans took part in a post-match punch-up that rolled along Moor Lane. Took me right back to watching football in the 70s and 80s.

Edited by Hopping Mad
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19 hours ago, sweaty craiq said:

Having been to the old Moor Lane when Swinton played there I can only comment what a total hole it was then and that the fun of 2000 Wire or Saints fans descending on the area for parking is worth a tv channel on its own. As commented on Salford decided not pay rent but players - and have got away with it

 

Yes. I visited Langtree Park at around the same time you went to Moor Lane, and I can only comment what a total hole it was; it looked like little more than a derelict glass works. I can only hope that both stadiums have improved in the intervening 18 years.

If Saints and Warrington did take 2000 fans to Moor Lane, it certainly would be worth seeing, because that would mean they'd each be taking more than twice as many fans as they usually take to Salford.

And Salford didn't just 'decide' not to pay rent on the stadium - this isn't like playing Rugby League Manager on your Xbox, where you get to just 'decide' things - they negotiated a favourable deal with the stadium management company.

Apart from that, all good points.

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35 minutes ago, Hammerless Nail said:

Yes. I visited Langtree Park at around the same time you went to Moor Lane, and I can only comment what a total hole it was; it looked like little more than a derelict glass works. I can only hope that both stadiums have improved in the intervening 18 years.

If Saints and Warrington did take 2000 fans to Moor Lane, it certainly would be worth seeing, because that would mean they'd each be taking more than twice as many fans as they usually take to Salford.

And Salford didn't just 'decide' not to pay rent on the stadium - this isn't like playing Rugby League Manager on your Xbox, where you get to just 'decide' things - they negotiated a favourable deal with the stadium management company.

Apart from that, all good points.

Thank you for the correction, so that I am up to speed

What was the deal? and what was it previously? Someone told me the council agreed rent free unless over 8000?

What was not repaid when the CVA was broke?

Edited by sweaty craiq
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I don't buy the idea that bigger stadia automatically makes SL a better product. 

As a TV viewer, I'm much more likely to become interested in a game when there is a ground that is largely full, is generating a good atmosphere and *looks* up to date.

TW Stadium, Halliwell Jones and Headingley might not be as big as the DW/John Smiths/ KCOM but they make for a much better TV product.

Whilst Moor Lane obviously has its challenges, seeing it 80%+ full under the lights with a proper atmosphere will make it a much more attractive proposition than a third full, soulless AJ Bell. 

Edited by Ray Cashmere
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10 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

I think it is a better move.  You can attract fans when you can generate an atmosphere.  Plonk a 3g pitch down so that it can be a place that schools and community clubs can be brought into. Be positive about the move and get the place rocking. 

And Shropshire, I know you have spoke about Big City clubs and in particular Manchester as a place for RL and the SL.

Well Moor Lane is roughly about the same distance between the centre of Manchester as is the Bernabeu is to the middle of Madrid. About 4.5 k or just short of three miles.

As in Aston Villa, Everton, Partick, Anderlecht, Sampdoria et al, SRD could be seen as both the sporting pinnacle of the city of Salford and the wider "Manchester" area.

 

 

Edited by idrewthehaggis
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On 25/09/2021 at 14:46, The Daddy said:

 

I think if they were to try and increase capacity to say 7000 then it would be difficult as the local residents would kick up a fuss. And from what I read it was not easy for Salford City FC to do what they have done.

One concession SCFC made was no building work on a Saturday as it is in a mainly Jewish area.

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2 hours ago, idrewthehaggis said:

And Shropshire, I know you have spoke about Big City clubs and in particular Manchester as a place for RL and the SL.

Well Moor Lane is roughly about the same distance between the centre of Manchester as is the Bernabeu is to the middle of Madrid. About 4.5 k or just short of three miles.

As in Aston Villa, Everton, Partick, Anderlecht, Sampdoria et al, SRD could be seen as both the sporting pinnacle of the city of Salford and the wider "Manchester" area.

 

 

Football and League worlds apart.  I think a team in Manchester centre proper would actually help Salford by giving a rivalry to build.

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20 hours ago, sweaty craiq said:

Thank you for the correction, so that I am up to speed

What was the deal? and what was it previously? Someone told me the council agreed rent free unless over 8000?

What was not repaid when the CVA was broke?

The Original agreement was a rental amount that was based on the club achieving 8,500 average fans, clearly salford do not and have not had this. As this wasn't achievable salford negotiated with the SMC a reduced rent that they have been paying. 

The CVA was debts from the John Wilkinson era, Koukash entered into eh CVA to consolidate the debts, nobody knows exactly who the debtors were or how much was due to each one. This is contrary to what many on this forum believe. Nothing was therefore not repaid when the CVA collapsed.

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1 hour ago, To Be Confirmed said:

The Original agreement was a rental amount that was based on the club achieving 8,500 average fans, clearly salford do not and have not had this. As this wasn't achievable salford negotiated with the SMC a reduced rent that they have been paying. 

The CVA was debts from the John Wilkinson era, Koukash entered into eh CVA to consolidate the debts, nobody knows exactly who the debtors were or how much was due to each one. This is contrary to what many on this forum believe. Nothing was therefore not repaid when the CVA collapsed.

Thank you

Did Salford owe the council £1.3m in un paid rent, and is the rent £0 at present

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14 hours ago, Robthegasman said:

I think if they were to try and increase capacity to say 7000 then it would be difficult as the local residents would kick up a fuss. And from what I read it was not easy for Salford City FC to do what they have done.

One concession SCFC made was no building work on a Saturday as it is in a mainly Jewish area.

  When i started working in Betting Shops we had quite a few Jewish managers.Busiest day of the week Saturday we were working our cobblers off and they had the day off.So i can understand the no Saturday work.

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2 hours ago, To Be Confirmed said:

The Original agreement was a rental amount that was based on the club achieving 8,500 average fans, clearly salford do not and have not had this. As this wasn't achievable salford negotiated with the SMC a reduced rent that they have been paying. 

The CVA was debts from the John Wilkinson era, Koukash entered into eh CVA to consolidate the debts, nobody knows exactly who the debtors were or how much was due to each one. This is contrary to what many on this forum believe. Nothing was therefore not repaid when the CVA collapsed.

This is correct kids.

It is also worth noting that the assets of the club - principally the Willows ground - were not sold to either pay those debts off or pay for the AJ Bell stade if you believe the local media in Salford. 

Somewhere a student should do a thesis on this. How not to build a stadium. 

In future, chose site near centre of town and/or near public transport, generate funds by selling ground, loans, grants, buy and design  ground after consulting supporters, residents and public and build. 

I hope people have learnt these lessons when it comes to the next move.

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1 hour ago, sweaty craiq said:

Thank you

Did Salford owe the council £1.3m in un paid rent, and is the rent £0 at present

I've never heard that debt figure - or the reasons behind it - from anyone I would consider to be a reliable source, only from herberts on t'interweb. So, while it may be true, I wouldn't bank on it.

I think there was a time when a previous owner said he'd secured a deal where the club wouldn't be paying rent for a certain period, but he's not someone I would consider a reliable source.

I have been told how much the club is currently paying by someone who is in a position to know, and it isn't zero.

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2 hours ago, idrewthehaggis said:

This is correct kids.

It is also worth noting that the assets of the club - principally the Willows ground - were not sold to either pay those debts off or pay for the AJ Bell stade if you believe the local media in Salford. 

Somewhere a student should do a thesis on this. How not to build a stadium. 

In future, chose site near centre of town and/or near public transport, generate funds by selling ground, loans, grants, buy and design  ground after consulting supporters, residents and public and build. 

I hope people have learnt these lessons when it comes to the next move.

I was under the impression that The Willows was sold off to a housing development ran by one of the club directors.

https://watson-homes.co.uk/portfolio/the-willows/

However,following the earlier Banking Crash that caused huge problems for a new stadium,there then followed a housing crash.

I haven't read this,but it may be slightly close to the truth - https://www.salfordstar.com/article.asp?id=2068

     No reserves,but resilience,persistence and determination are omnipotent.                       

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On 26/09/2021 at 16:51, Josef K said:

Salford City AFC seem to be struggling with attendances so far this season, they’re averaging just over 2,000 although they haven’t had the best of starts. 

They don’t have any actual fans though, just Man Utd fans who want a game to watch when Utd are away. 

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