Dallas Mead Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 Wow. Just watched that semi and it makes last night’s embarrassment of a match even more of…..an embarrassment. As a wire fan I’m over the moon that Price is moving on but as a RL fan I can’t get over the gap between SL and NRL. It’s bigger than ever folks and only going one way…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bratman Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 I get the point but you're comparing a semi final 1st vs 2nd and a quarter final 3rd vs 6th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 It was a good game, I really enjoyed it. But far from infallible. Yesterday Manly made 17 errors and there were plenty today as well including two kicks in general play that went out on the full by about 15 yards. Good players and exciting but lacking in the clinical execution we typically expect of the Aussie game. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UTK Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 28 minutes ago, Dallas Mead said: Wow. Just watched that semi and it makes last night’s embarrassment of a match even more of…..an embarrassment. As a wire fan I’m over the moon that Price is moving on but as a RL fan I can’t get over the gap between SL and NRL. It’s bigger than ever folks and only going one way…. I think it's good to keep in mind that the gap between the teams that participated in the prelims and the rest of the NRL was also massive. The quality of players on display there doesn't accurately reflect the standard of the comp as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 Just checked. Melbourne made 16 errors today. In the same game last year against the Raiders they made 4. As I say, very entertaining but not the masterclass that we are making it out to be. In our game we are critical of every error but for some reason we forgive it in the NRL. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Man of Kent Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 Yes, the NRL is superior to Super League. But what’s new? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Frisky Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 20 minutes ago, Dunbar said: Just checked. Melbourne made 16 errors today. In the same game last year against the Raiders they made 4. As I say, very entertaining but not the masterclass that we are making it out to be. In our game we are critical of every error but for some reason we forgive it in the NRL. Yes agree Dunbar- poor defence in SL is great attacking play in the NRL. From the posts original comment - No one on here ever claims that SL is better than the NRL but lazy comments to always down play SL get a bit tired. We saw 2 classic matches with intensity to match at the SL magic weekend and the same weekend I watched a very poor NRL game with very poor quality teams - you can't just write off a whole comp picking and choosing examples to suit a bias opinion. Remember we have 2 former star NRL players in SL this season (Bateman and Williams) and they just havent got a grip with the pase and style of play of our competition - in fact they have been very poor. The 2 comps are different, and yes the NRL is better but both comps produce great games and high quality - its just the overall NRL quality is usually better. Saying that I don't think either Cats or Saints (or KR or Leeds) would beat the NRL GF winner but I would love for Cats to win the GF and play the NRL champs in Barcelona in next seasons WCC game infront of a big crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC77 Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 14 minutes ago, Dunbar said: Just checked. Melbourne made 16 errors today. In the same game last year against the Raiders they made 4. As I say, very entertaining but not the masterclass that we are making it out to be. In our game we are critical of every error but for some reason we forgive it in the NRL. Looking at number of errors can be misleading though. Play against a lesser opponent the error count will be lower. Melbourne (and Penrith) won’t have a tougher opponent. The intensity and quality that game was played at is a different level from anything in either code of rugby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 6 minutes ago, DC77 said: Looking at number of errors can be misleading though. Play against a lesser opponent the error count will be lower. Melbourne (and Penrith) won’t have a tougher opponent. The intensity and quality that game was played at is a different level from anything in either code of rugby. Yes, I thought someone would come along and explain how there were more errors because they were better. Is kicking out on the full a sign of how good they are too? "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Frisky Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 11 minutes ago, DC77 said: Looking at number of errors can be misleading though. Play against a lesser opponent the error count will be lower. Melbourne (and Penrith) won’t have a tougher opponent. The intensity and quality that game was played at is a different level from anything in either code of rugby. I remember watching James Maloney at the end of the Saints game a few weeks ago when he kicked the golden point - a true NRL great. His reaction to the win and how beat up he was after playing for 90 mins against a top SL team in a high intensity and quality game didn't read like a NRL player coming to SL for an easy ride. Seemed like he knew he had been in a tough, top quality game and was caught up in the whole occasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkw Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 The only thing embarrassing is this kind of thread, the worst type on this forum. Now this might shock you, but SL and NRL have great games, average games and rubbish games. Should we start a thread everytime I see a rubbish NRL game and compare it to a great SL game I watched? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davo5 Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 5 minutes ago, dkw said: The only thing embarrassing is this kind of thread, the worst type on this forum. Now this might shock you, but SL and NRL have great games, average games and rubbish games. Should we start a thread everytime I see a rubbish NRL game and compare it to a great SL game I watched? Maybe start one on how one NRL Grand Finalist have been flogged by 50 points on 2 occasions this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbe Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 Best game Cats v Saints, magic weekend as good as anything in the NRL, for pure excitement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 3 hours ago, Dallas Mead said: Wow. Just watched that semi and it makes last night’s embarrassment of a match even more of…..an embarrassment. As a wire fan I’m over the moon that Price is moving on but as a RL fan I can’t get over the gap between SL and NRL. It’s bigger than ever folks and only going one way…. It was interesting at half time that the error count was 9 v 7 and the score 0 v 6. Almost identical to last night. That was cause for depression in the SL game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 2 hours ago, DC77 said: Looking at number of errors can be misleading though. Play against a lesser opponent the error count will be lower. Melbourne (and Penrith) won’t have a tougher opponent. The intensity and quality that game was played at is a different level from anything in either code of rugby. It may have been entertaining, but lets not make out the errors were any better or worse than Wires or Hull KRs. A lot of them were poor errors for Melbourne. But, as I said last night, we don't need to stress about errors. They are a part of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 4 hours ago, UTK said: I think it's good to keep in mind that the gap between the teams that participated in the prelims and the rest of the NRL was also massive. The quality of players on display there doesn't accurately reflect the standard of the comp as a whole. Good point . Overall a good proportion of the NRL this year was pretty underwhelming in the main . Newcastle made 7th with a 50% record and -143 PD and Titans made the playoffs with 20 points . The top three were way ahead of the rest tbh . These are who we’re seeing now . For a comp known for strength in depth and competitiveness it hasn’t been a vintage year by any means Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unapologetic pedant Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 4 hours ago, Dunbar said: Yes, I thought someone would come along and explain how there were more errors because they were better. Is kicking out on the full a sign of how good they are too? I don`t like too much emphasis on handling error counts. Creative teams who use the ball will likely make more errors. Five dummy-half runs in every set for eighty minutes might mean a zero handling error count, but it won`t win a game and we shouldn`t want it too. Kicking out on the full is another matter. Particularly nowadays when kick pressure is often negligible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unapologetic pedant Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 4 hours ago, DC77 said: Looking at number of errors can be misleading though. Play against a lesser opponent the error count will be lower. Melbourne (and Penrith) won’t have a tougher opponent. The intensity and quality that game was played at is a different level from anything in either code of rugby. I agree with all that. In tennis they make a distinction between forced and unforced errors. We should try to do the same in RL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 But some of the errors this morning were just poor. George Jennings bombed a stone cold try by dropping a gift of a pass? I'm not going to buy the argument that the errors this morning were because of how good they are. They were just errors. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bratman Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 Warrington made 21 errors yesterday, maybe a sign of just how good Hull KR are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidM Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 30 minutes ago, Dunbar said: I'm not going to buy the argument that the errors this morning were because of how good they are Ah shame , I’d be supporting one of the best sides in the world for years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MZH Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 There have been an awful lot of rubbish one sided games this year in the NRL. Yes the standard over there is generally better than it is here, but don't make out like it's a different sport they are playing. Melbourne and Penrith are easily the best 2 teams there (that should be the GF except for Penrith's slip up a few weeks ago). The rest are up and down. The bottom few would get beat pretty handily by the likes of Saints or Catalans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unapologetic pedant Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 3 hours ago, Dunbar said: But some of the errors this morning were just poor. George Jennings bombed a stone cold try by dropping a gift of a pass? I'm not going to buy the argument that the errors this morning were because of how good they are. They were just errors. If this is in response to my preceding post, I don`t dissent from what you`re saying here. I highlighted the Jennings drop as a costly moment on the match thread. Clearly an unforced handling error. I just didn`t feel watching the game that there were that many unforced errors, or that they detracted from the overall quality. I often thoroughly enjoy games both in Oz and UK, then go on the TRL match thread to read that the most conspicuous element was the number of errors. I think we should classify a pass out of the tackle that goes wrong as a forced error. - Not a cause for celebration, but I`d rather see some failed offloads than a whole game where nobody attempts to offload. The problem over here at the moment is that a handling error means a slow-motion PTB and first tackle settler. In the NRL, we can anticipate the potential for something different off the scrum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunbar Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 2 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said: If this is in response to my preceding post, I don`t dissent from what you`re saying here. I highlighted the Jennings drop as a costly moment on the match thread. Clearly an unforced handling error. I just didn`t feel watching the game that there were that many unforced errors, or that they detracted from the overall quality. I often thoroughly enjoy games both in Oz and UK, then go on the TRL match thread to read that the most conspicuous element was the number of errors. I think we should classify a pass out of the tackle that goes wrong as a forced error. - Not a cause for celebration, but I`d rather see some failed offloads than a whole game where nobody attempts to offload. The problem over here at the moment is that a handling error means a slow-motion PTB and first tackle settler. In the NRL, we can anticipate the potential for something different off the scrum. I enjoyed the game this morning as well. It was excellent. You have to read the points here in the context of the original post that said our games were an embarrassment and the gap to the NRL widening. I was merely pointing out that both teams kicked the ball out on the full, Jennings bombed a sitter, Clearly dropped a ball under no pressure etc etc. This isn't to say it wasn't a good game with plenty of skill and intensity... just that it wasn't perfect and Super League games are often flogged for the errors and yet we praise NRL games and are happy to ignore the errors for some reason. "The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby. "If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted September 26, 2021 Share Posted September 26, 2021 16 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said: I agree with all that. In tennis they make a distinction between forced and unforced errors. We should try to do the same in RL. Funnily enough we do in commentary, but not in formal stats. The lazy analysts then just claim everything is unforced, despite many of them being in the collision and forced errors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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