Fri 1st Oct : SL play off SF : St Helens v Leeds Rhinos KO 19:45 Sky TV

[Dunbar]

3 minutes ago, Scubby said:

He won't even be on 30.

As a fan of Rugby League and appreciative of the demands of a professional Rugby League player, I would want them all to be on a fair bit more than this.

Not trying to open up a conversation on cap or commercial elements just recognising their contribution. 

[M j M]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

Tom Briscoe has been absolutely rubbish for Leeds. Scored 5 at Wembley in his second season and done sod all else in 7? years. He's gone backwards.

His brother I don't mind, considering how much he is probably being paid.

Sorry I couldn't disagree more with this.

Briscoe hasn't been the try scoring machine some probably thought he would be when he signed, and he was perhaps overshadowed a bit as part of the All Star Back Line up to 2016.

But he's a really reliable pro, gets great metres going forward, is very hard to put down and has been a beacon of stability and experience over the past five years that's been desperately needed. 

[glossop saint]

Wow there is some ref paranoia on here this evening!

Looking forward to an exciting match up between the best 2 teams in the league next week and for me it is a bit of a no lose situation as I'd love to see Catalan win and what I think would benefit the game as a whole but obviously also will be supporting Saints. Can't wait.

[M j M]

Overall that was much as expected. Saints clearly the better side but Leeds showed the familiar gritty attitude of Agar's team. The Leeds pack just about held their own but beyond that it was all too rushed and uncontrolled.

Getting the two new halves in plus Gale, getting Leeming back to 9 and Dwyer back to his bench role should really fix up a lot of stuff. Plus Bentley and a year older Gannon in the back row and, like a lot of people at the club, I like the look of 2022.

I won't comment on Kendall because it's all already been said but I suppose Child will be getting the final now which will be interesting.

[dixiedean]

Sky Bet odds out.

Saints 4/11

Cats 2/1

That seems generous for a few cheeky Euros. Anyone give them a less than 1 in 3 chance?

[ATLANTISMAN]

How many there tonight 

[Davo5]

30 minutes ago, M j M said:

Sorry I couldn't disagree more with this.

Briscoe hasn't been the try scoring machine some probably thought he would be when he signed, and he was perhaps overshadowed a bit as part of the All Star Back Line up to 2016.

But he's a really reliable pro, gets great metres going forward, is very hard to put down and has been a beacon of stability and experience over the past five years that's been desperately needed. 

He’s been a steady winger but he’s no centre.

[Out on the full]

2 hours ago, 7723 said:

You can guarantee that would normally get a ban, but this is saints and a grand final, not a chance he will get a ban.

We had someone banned for the Challenge Cup final. 

[M j M]

24 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

He’s been a steady winger but he’s no centre.

That's very true. But even then he's been steady enough although I'd have risked Hurrell there tonight with Briscoe back in his normal place instead of his brother. Hurrell is obviously a risk but without much creativity from half back it would have been worth the gamble starting him.

[Chris22]

41 minutes ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

How many there tonight 

11,688

[Chris22]

Thought the game was a reflection of where the two teams are. Leeds are on the periphery of the top teams but not there yet. The signings they've made for next year give them a chance of being contenders again.

The biggest compliment I can pay to Saints is that I don't have nerves that we may save our worst performances for the biggest games anymore. We are a team now that rises to the occasion. Even if we lose next week, I don't think it will be down to a poor performance by us.

We have the final that we deserve. The best two teams this year and you can make a strong case for either to win. Should be an excellent game.

P.S. Alex Walmsley is a cheat code.

[yipyee]

The First Sin bin was a straight red but as it was a semi was never going to be a red.

The other 3 should not have been sin bins just penalties.

The knee to walmsleys head was naughty maybe a sin bin.

I thought the ref was equal with his decisions though and ultimatley did not change the outcome which is the main thing.

As long as a ref is consistant then hes just calling things as he sees them and may have a different opinion to the interpritation of the rules.

[UTK]

35 minutes ago, yipyee said:

The First Sin bin was a straight red but as it was a semi was never going to be a red.

The other 3 should not have been sin bins just penalties.

The knee to walmsleys head was naughty maybe a sin bin.

I thought the ref was equal with his decisions though and ultimatley did not change the outcome which is the main thing.

As long as a ref is consistant then hes just calling things as he sees them and may have a different opinion to the interpritation of the rules.

Completely agree that the decisions had no impact on the outcome. Some of the bins were probably on the lower end of what deserves a bin but they were definitely consistent. 

Disagree on the Knowles hit though. Very late and blatant shoulder charge - massive brainsnap and should have been a red/would definitely be suspended in the regular season.

[Davo5]

7 hours ago, Chris22 said:

11,688

Pretty poor that,seeing how Leeds had a good following,a semifinal double header in France next year

[sentoffagain2]

  Leeds well beaten with Lui the stand out performer for them.Thought most other Leeds players played below expectations.Robbie and Walmsley were outstanding in a Saints pack that dominated the Leeds six.But Leeds did score 2 tries despite not playing well.I would think Catalan with their open play could score 3 or more.So it will be up to the Catalan defence.If they can keep Saints to 18 points or less they have a real chance.

[Mark S]

10 hours ago, Dunbar said:

As a fan of Rugby League and appreciative of the demands of a professional Rugby League player, I would want them all to be on a fair bit more than this.

Not trying to open up a conversation on cap or commercial elements just recognising their contribution. 

Considering you could earn £30k as a plasterer or electrician, why would you do permanent damage to your body and mental health for peanuts.

[bobbruce]

1 minute ago, sentoffagain2 said:

  Leeds well beaten with Lui the stand out performer for them.Thought most other Leeds players played below expectations.Robbie and Walmsley were outstanding in a Saints pack that dominated the Leeds six.But Leeds did score 2 tries despite not playing well.I would think Catalan with their open play could score 3 or more.So it will be up to the Catalan defence.If they can keep Saints to 18 points or less they have a real chance.

I genuinely think it’s a toss up next week. Hopefully Saints experience in the grand final sees them over the line. Although with it being a different side in the final it wouldn’t devastate me if Catalans win. 

[Tommygilf]

11 hours ago, M j M said:

Sorry I couldn't disagree more with this.

Briscoe hasn't been the try scoring machine some probably thought he would be when he signed, and he was perhaps overshadowed a bit as part of the All Star Back Line up to 2016.

But he's a really reliable pro, gets great metres going forward, is very hard to put down and has been a beacon of stability and experience over the past five years that's been desperately needed. 

He came as an England international and has looked nothing like it. He's not exactly alone in that respect with players Leeds have signed but he's not been the top tier signing we hoped and has certainly not kicked on in his international career.

Beacon of stability is melodrama and is the type of silly attitude that lead us to keep average players beyond their value. Its sentimental at best.

He's a pretty average winger, does not make outstanding metres compared to most average wingers, and has never regularly shown the acrobatic and physical finishing of some of the top tier wingers in Super League. He's neither able to carry with aggressive physicality (ie Hall) nor use pace and agility (ie Handley).

So I stand by what I said. He's gone backwards, relative to both the expectations of his career and the abilities of other competitors; including of course his brother, who has demonstrated equal if not greater capability (for far less cap space) than he has.

[M j M]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

 

So I stand by what I said. He's gone backwards, relative to both the expectations of his career and the abilities of other competitors; including of course his brother, who has demonstrated equal if not greater capability (for far less cap space) than he has.

So "absolutely rubbish" might be considered a bit... melodramatic... then?

[Tommygilf]

33 minutes ago, M j M said:

So "absolutely rubbish" might be considered a bit... melodramatic... then?

No, because he has been, especially so in consideration to the expectation and with the exception of 5 tries at Wembley once.

[BrisbaneRhino]

St Helens are a pretty good team.  Its a bit worrying that they're so far ahead of the rest at the moment (maybe Cats are close at their best).

Leeds have struggled to score points all year. We've been missing one or more halfbacks for a lot of the time, but the team has never looked like having enough points in them against better teams and looked at its most comfortable playing an attritional style. That's never going to win a competition, especially if the team keeps making dumb mistakes, which has been a feature far too often this year.

It will be really interesting to see how we go next year. I hope the gameplan is more expansive and Agar looks for combinations to win games through scoring and not just trying to grind out close wins. The signings so far seem likely to make us stronger, and some of the departures won't hurt. I think we're a prop and a quick winger short, and a bit overloaded with backrowers, but we'll see.

As for Tom Briscoe, he's clearly past his best but two SL titles and two Challenge Cups (with 8 tries in finals) isn't a bad return. He maybe hasn't been the star he was at Hull but he's done a good job for mine.  

[Moove]

Couldn't be happier with last night. As much as I haven't really clicked with Woolf's style I think with games like that it's hard to deny his abilities as a coach. I think Agar summed it up well with the word 'relentless'. With defensive effort and the approach to building plays out from the back it certainly is. I know the focus is on Walmsley's performances (which have been top notch) but with Coote, Makinson and Percival making 370m between them it doesn't half make his job a lot easier.

A proper team effort and while I've seen more talented and skillful Saints sides I don't think I've seen one working as hard for each other and as consistently as the current one. And that's including the 2006 team that only lost four games by a total of something like 10 points.

A hat tip to Sione Mata'utia too. Looked pretty poor early in the season but I thought he was excellent last night and has been for a few weeks. Looking like a really good signing now.

For Leeds to kick on next year I think they'll need to demand a lot more from the likes of Prior and Tetevano. Seeing them manage just 34m and 62m respectively last night isn't good enough when the big games come around. When they throw in 18 missed tackles between them it's always going to be tough (in contrast the whole Saints team put together missed just 25). I'm guessing Holroyd was injured given his two carries? And Oledzki not fully fit? Plenty of cause for optimism for the future with those two though, plus Gannon to come back in, but they'll need more from the big earners.

Different kettle of fish next week though. Catalans have a big strong pack, in Drinkwater they'll have a better kicking game so we're perhaps not on the front foot as much etc. They'll also take a lot of confidence from the last 10 mins of the Magic Weekend game. Similarly I think Saints will go into it focussing on last night's performance and the way they controlled much of the rest of that Magic game. Should be a cracker between the two stand out teams of 2021.

[yipyee]

5 hours ago, sentoffagain2 said:

  Leeds well beaten with Lui the stand out performer for them.Thought most other Leeds players played below expectations.Robbie and Walmsley were outstanding in a Saints pack that dominated the Leeds six.But Leeds did score 2 tries despite not playing well.I would think Catalan with their open play could score 3 or more.So it will be up to the Catalan defence.If they can keep Saints to 18 points or less they have a real chance.

Even though Lui was targeted in defence by saints though.

First try wasnt a try an wouldnt have been if it went up as a no try.

The second was after 18 plays on the saints line after 3 repeat sets. You cant keep a team out forever in defence.

Leeds need to change half their pack and newman looked ordinary

[redjonn]

50 minutes ago, Moove said:

.....

For Leeds to kick on next year I think they'll need to demand a lot more from the likes of Prior and Tetevano. Seeing them manage just 34m and 62m respectively last night isn't good enough when the big games come around. When they throw in 18 missed tackles between them it's always going to be tough (in contrast the whole Saints team put together missed just 25). I'm guessing Holroyd was injured given his two carries? And Oledzki not fully fit? Plenty of cause for optimism for the future with those two though, plus Gannon to come back in, but they'll need more from the big earners.

----

If Prior plays next season like this season then he will be playing well.

OK a bad game yesterday in comparison but he has been playing well most of the season.

It was a game too far for Leeds, they could not cope with Saints intensity and eventually the tiredness  of a disrupted season caught up with them.

Personally I think a fully fit Leeds pack is better than most. Another year under the belt for the youngsters and their be fine.  

Leeds biggest problem has been their creativity or attacking prowess with no fit  half backs. Even Lui because of his injury is unable to participate fully in a game, needing to find rest out on the wing. Leeming is not a half back ever but has managed to do well in most of games but different kettle of fish playing a team like Saints.

 

[yipyee]

15 minutes ago, redjonn said:

If Prior plays next season like this season then he will be playing well.

OK a bad game yesterday in comparison but he has been playing well most of the season.

It was a game too far for Leeds, they could not cope with Saints intensity and eventually the tiredness  of a disrupted season caught up with them.

Personally I think a fully fit Leeds pack is better than most. Another year under the belt for the youngsters and their be fine.  

Leeds biggest problem has been their creativity or attacking prowess with no fit  half backs. Even Lui because of his injury is unable to participate fully in a game, needing to find rest out on the wing. Leeming is not a half back ever but has managed to do well in most of games but different kettle of fish playing a team like Saints.

 

Thats the third time saints beat leeds by a similar scoreline, all games cannot use the above excuses.

Saints loose a few players next year but Leeds need to improve across the park to compete at the top.

To be fair Leeds have had a good season seeing as it started so bad and eastmond walked out on you.