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Batley or Halifax in Super League?


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1 hour ago, graveyard johnny said:

lots of things have changed in Batley in that time- the vibrant pub and club scene including legends  and the frontier has now been extinguished for one, once proud  buildings and businesses  are now rundown eyesores for another, its not just about the team been attractive its also about the appeal of the town which is now non existent 

Your correct there's no way we can compete with the 'honey pot' tourist towns of Castleford,Warrington and Ull.  If the unthinkable happens and Batley get there on merit, even with our boarded up town centre I think we would go Hybrid, give the lads who got us there a chance with a few quality players added. I'd expect us to lose every game but become everyone's second favourite team along the way, and everyone's favourite away day.  The money made would keep us competitive for years to come and the publicity for RL in general from such an underdogs beating the odds story would be good for the game as a whole. 

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14 minutes ago, Chris_T said:

Your correct there's no way we can compete with the 'honey pot' tourist towns of Castleford,Warrington and Ull.  If the unthinkable happens and Batley get there on merit, even with our boarded up town centre I think we would go Hybrid, give the lads who got us there a chance with a few quality players added. I'd expect us to lose every game but become everyone's second favourite team along the way, and everyone's favourite away day.  The money made would keep us competitive for years to come and the publicity for RL in general from such an underdogs beating the odds story would be good for the game as a whole. 

I like your optimism.

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44 minutes ago, Chris_T said:

Your correct there's no way we can compete with the 'honey pot' tourist towns of Castleford,Warrington and Ull.  If the unthinkable happens and Batley get there on merit, even with our boarded up town centre I think we would go Hybrid, give the lads who got us there a chance with a few quality players added. I'd expect us to lose every game but become everyone's second favourite team along the way, and everyone's favourite away day.  The money made would keep us competitive for years to come and the publicity for RL in general from such an underdogs beating the odds story would be good for the game as a whole. 

I have nothing but respect for how Batley conduct their business and the work they've done to promote the game, but it would be an absolute travesty if any club tried to pocket the money they were given for their place in Superleague.

The money is provided for teams to assemble the best squad they can and contribute to the strength of our flagship competition. If Batley, Fax or Fev receive £1.5 mln from Sky - or whatever it will be next season - they should spend ALL of it on players, minus anything they need to spend to upgrade broadcasting and media infrastructure, which are in the operational rules. 

I don't expect any club to overstretch themselves, but I certainly don't expect them to pocket any cash either. The simple fact of a year in SL would work wonders for any of the potential candidates as it is.  

And on your last point, unfortunately the underdog story will disappear very quickly if we get another season like Leigh have had, which has been a stain on the competition. The aim should be a year like London had in 2019, and there's no reason a heartland club like Batley, Fev or Fax couldn't do the same, given their average crowd will probably be higher than London managed.    

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3 hours ago, Spidey said:

I don’t think that’s true. FT and PT playing contracts are different and to play in SL I’m sure you have to sign a FT contract 

I remember Super League announcing that the minimum a player could earn was £15,000. I'm not well versed enough on Championship finances, but I imagine you could run a part-time squad on that sort of money

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17 minutes ago, SamDrew said:

I remember Super League announcing that the minimum a player could earn was £15,000. I'm not well versed enough on Championship finances, but I imagine you could run a part-time squad on that sort of money

I'd imagine all of Fev's players make more than that. Some of them significantly more.

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5 hours ago, paulwalker71 said:

Interesting. I wasn't aware of that.

Being cynical, I suppose it suits the Super League clubs to have a 'whipping boy' club promoted as if protects them from relegation for another year.

But thats the thing, Fev would probably do better if they kept half their part time players and added a few more full time players rather than just have to sign whats left of the full time players. Lets face it most of the best part time players are better than a lot of the full time players playing near the bottom of SL.

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I think any side promoted should have one season exempt from relegation. Then the jump from Championship to SL isn't about spending up large and hoping the new squad can gel quickly or else. If they come last in year two, then they clearly are in the wrong division. Hull KR looked relegation candidates last year and now one game from a final this year so things can be turned around with a a bit of time and the right ingredients brought together. 

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I pretty sure my view will be unpopular but I was watching the Batley game and ended up thinking afterwards that licencing or hybrid p/r is the way to go. There is no way that Batley with the amount of support (couldn't achieve a sell out of a park ground) and the ground they have are Super League ready or worthy off the field. 

If we all want Super League to achieve the heights that we believe it can, unfortunately that dream doesn't include part time clubs without the facilities and economy to support them. This doesn't just include Batley but other clubs such as Whitehaven and Workington. Clubs that we don't even know whether they have Super League ambitions. 

If SL1/SL2 gets the go ahead then SL2 should only be for ambitious full time clubs or strategically located and the clubs mentioned above go into their own comp similar to Qcup or NSW cup here in Australia. English rl simply doesn't have the funds to support the traditional p/r structure and give out goodwill money with the hope that a feel good battler story comes along. The finances just don't add up for a sport already declining.

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9 hours ago, The Blues Ox said:

But thats the thing, Fev would probably do better if they kept half their part time players and added a few more full time players rather than just have to sign whats left of the full time players. Lets face it most of the best part time players are better than a lot of the full time players playing near the bottom of SL.

I can’t agree that most of the best part time players in the Championship are better than a lot of Super League players, the gap between Super League and the Championship is big as Leigh have found out this year, Super League players are professional athletes. If a team comes into Super League with a significant number of their squad playing as part time players we really are in trouble. 

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5 hours ago, Omott91 said:

I pretty sure my view will be unpopular but I was watching the Batley game and ended up thinking afterwards that licencing or hybrid p/r is the way to go. There is no way that Batley with the amount of support (couldn't achieve a sell out of a park ground) and the ground they have are Super League ready or worthy off the field. 

If we all want Super League to achieve the heights that we believe it can, unfortunately that dream doesn't include part time clubs without the facilities and economy to support them. This doesn't just include Batley but other clubs such as Whitehaven and Workington. Clubs that we don't even know whether they have Super League ambitions. 

If SL1/SL2 gets the go ahead then SL2 should only be for ambitious full time clubs or strategically located and the clubs mentioned above go into their own comp similar to Qcup or NSW cup here in Australia. English rl simply doesn't have the funds to support the traditional p/r structure and give out goodwill money with the hope that a feel good battler story comes along. The finances just don't add up for a sport already declining.

I have to largely agree with that

My fear is that - should Batley, Halifax or (I have to include them) Featherstone - be promoted, then what we might see is a team that has a few plucky 'near miss' defeats in the first part of next season, then they start getting injuries, the games come thick and fast and they settle into a routine of getting smashed 70-0 every week with no real way of getting out of that hole.

How would that help the image of the sport or - more importantly - the well being of that club?

There's a HUGE gulf between SL and Championship, and it isn't going to be bridged by a part-time or 'hybrid' club getting mullered every week. Still ,as I say, it all suits the clubs at the bottom end of SL so I don't suppose we'll see anything different.

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35 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

I can’t agree that most of the best part time players in the Championship are better than a lot of Super League players, the gap between Super League and the Championship is big as Leigh have found out this year, Super League players are professional athletes. If a team comes into Super League with a significant number of their squad playing as part time players we really are in trouble. 

Leigh got promoted with a team that would have not been in the top 2 of the Championship. In my opinion both Fev and Toulouse would have been streets ahead of them. You will also notice I said lower end of the table players. I reckon you could stick the best 50 part time players in the Championship and replace the worst 50 regular playing full time players and it would increase the standard of the competition. The problem is those part time players, a lot of them will have had offers from SL, but theres not enough money in the game to make it worth their while. Brandon Moore a classic example as last season he didn't just fill a gap in Huddersfields team but went on to look like one of their best players. Salford made him an offer that came up between 20-25k short of allowing him to quit his job as a roofer.

A hybrid team in my opinion would perform better than having to recruit a full new team in the space of a couple of months which is the likelyhood for a lot of teams chasing promotion. It must be a nightmare for Fev trying to sort contracts out at the moment knowing they will have to release a load of good players if they are promoted and the flip side that there is already a shortage of good players left available that would give them any chance of staying up.

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3 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

Leigh got promoted with a team that would have not been in the top 2 of the Championship. In my opinion both Fev and Toulouse would have been streets ahead of them. You will also notice I said lower end of the table players. I reckon you could stick the best 50 part time players in the Championship and replace the worst 50 regular playing full time players and it would increase the standard of the competition. The problem is those part time players, a lot of them will have had offers from SL, but theres not enough money in the game to make it worth their while. Brandon Moore a classic example as last season he didn't just fill a gap in Huddersfields team but went on to look like one of their best players. Salford made him an offer that came up between 20-25k short of allowing him to quit his job as a roofer.

A hybrid team in my opinion would perform better than having to recruit a full new team in the space of a couple of months which is the likelyhood for a lot of teams chasing promotion. It must be a nightmare for Fev trying to sort contracts out at the moment knowing they will have to release a load of good players if they are promoted and the flip side that there is already a shortage of good players left available that would give them any chance of staying up.

Part time players won’t give up the security of their full time job. Regardless of how much is being offered by a SL club it won’t match the security they will have in the future.

A part time player in a full time environment in SL is your way forward? Comical.

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9 hours ago, RayCee said:

I think any side promoted should have one season exempt from relegation. Then the jump from Championship to SL isn't about spending up large and hoping the new squad can gel quickly or else. If they come last in year two, then they clearly are in the wrong division. Hull KR looked relegation candidates last year and now one game from a final this year so things can be turned around with a a bit of time and the right ingredients brought together. 

   I have been saying this for years.Check my posts.Promotion every 2 years is the only way to minimise the YO YO effect.

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1 hour ago, Griff said:

Trains on matchdays is the next step.

You might want to check that with the group of lads from Sheffield waiting at the station following the game a couple of weeks ago. 😉

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23 hours ago, paulwalker71 said:

They would deserve it

But how would they approach it? Clearly both teams have nowhere near the kind of the squad or the back office structure to make a serious go at SL right now. Do they go into SL knowing that's just a one-season adventure, get battered every week and get relegated. Or do they try and 'scale up' quickly - and probably still get relegated and then be saddled with all sort of debt that would leave them worse off than they are now?

To be honest, I think a lot of the same issues apply to Featherstone too. 

Nobody is saying that they aren't 'good clubs' or that they'd deserve if through on-field activity. But I'm curious as to what the strategy would be

So would I Paul.

Halifax lost their SL status around the time the SKY deals were heavily reduced from the first 1996 deal. Batley got nowhere near really and if they are a decent "break even" club then Superleague would probably break them.

I know there's an idea if you win it you get the Superleague place. I also think that if you get the Superleague place and accept it your honour bound to make a good go of it and not just pocket the SKY money.

They would not deserve it if they accepted it but simply pocketed the money. Featherstone Rovers and their fans would very rightly be fuming!!....And so would SKY

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5 hours ago, The Blues Ox said:

Leigh got promoted with a team that would have not been in the top 2 of the Championship. In my opinion both Fev and Toulouse would have been streets ahead of them. You will also notice I said lower end of the table players. I reckon you could stick the best 50 part time players in the Championship and replace the worst 50 regular playing full time players and it would increase the standard of the competition. The problem is those part time players, a lot of them will have had offers from SL, but theres not enough money in the game to make it worth their while. Brandon Moore a classic example as last season he didn't just fill a gap in Huddersfields team but went on to look like one of their best players. Salford made him an offer that came up between 20-25k short of allowing him to quit his job as a roofer.

A hybrid team in my opinion would perform better than having to recruit a full new team in the space of a couple of months which is the likelyhood for a lot of teams chasing promotion. It must be a nightmare for Fev trying to sort contracts out at the moment knowing they will have to release a load of good players if they are promoted and the flip side that there is already a shortage of good players left available that would give them any chance of staying up.

Can you name the 50 Championship players and the 50 Super League players that they’re better than? Maybe don’t go all the way to 50, how about 20?

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1 hour ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Can you name the 50 Championship players and the 50 Super League players that they’re better than? Maybe don’t go all the way to 50, how about 20?

You do realise there are lots of Championship players who have chosen to combine semipro rugby with jobs rather than take up Superleague contracts.

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