What RL Can Learn (One perspective)

[RayCee]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/no-helmets-required/2021/sep/29/mark-evans-rugby-league-union-premiership-super-league

I found the article interesting but unusual in content.  

[Tabby]

What exactly are you looking for in a reply? 

[RayCee]

44 minutes ago, Tabby said:

What exactly are you looking for in a reply? 

People can reply with anything they like or choose not to.

[Tabby]

Just now, RayCee said:

People can reply with anything they like or choose not to.

Is your intent to induce comment regarding yawnion?

[gingerjon]

5 hours ago, RayCee said:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/no-helmets-required/2021/sep/29/mark-evans-rugby-league-union-premiership-super-league

I found the article interesting but unusual in content.  

Really interesting interview. Something to annoy everyone - whilst also probably giving something for everyone to nod at.

[Odsal Outlaw]

A good read, thanks for sharing. 

[Tommygilf]

There's nothing really from Evans that we haven't heard him say before really.

As always it has its usual contradictions and kernels of truth in equal measure.

 

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

There's nothing really from Evans that we haven't heard him say before really.

As always it has its usual contradictions and kernels of truth in equal measure.

 

If you want to boil down his 'truths' then they would read something like this:

You need money and time, and a fair bit of luck, as well as enough good and committed people off the field, and competition that people are engaged with on the field.

You will need more money, more time and more people than you expect.

How much money, time and people you need will vary on what your end goal and how secure the foundations of both the club and the sport are.

People would rather fiddle with things like competition structures than focus on the reality contained in the statements above or look for short cuts that aren't there.

[Man of Kent]

‘Fish where the fishes are’.

Quite.

[Death to the Rah Rah's]

Good article and one which resonates with me.

certainly this comment below, now more than ever the game needs to rebuild the community game but the new membership ‘pay to play’ scheme will drive players from the game :

If you rely on your professional teams to do your development work and don’t have any money to do it, you are in serious trouble. We all tend to go and watch the games we played, so if your participation numbers seriously diminish, like in Australian rugby union, over a 20-30 year period your audience disappears. And if that happens, you’re toast.”

[Man of Kent]

6 minutes ago, Death to the Rah Rah's said:

Good article and one which resonates with me.

certainly this comment below, now more than ever the game needs to rebuild the community game but the new membership ‘pay to play’ scheme will drive players from the game :

If you rely on your professional teams to do your development work and don’t have any money to do it, you are in serious trouble. We all tend to go and watch the games we played, so if your participation numbers seriously diminish, like in Australian rugby union, over a 20-30 year period your audience disappears. And if that happens, you’re toast.”

What I like about Evans is he sees the wood for the trees and doesn’t over-complicate things.

‘We all tend to go and watch the games we played, so if your participation numbers seriously diminish…your audience disappears’ is pretty obvious but often overlooked. 

[Tommygilf]

6 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

If you want to boil down his 'truths' then they would read something like this:

You need money and time, and a fair bit of luck, as well as enough good and committed people off the field, and competition that people are engaged with on the field.

You will need more money, more time and more people than you expect.

How much money, time and people you need will vary on what your end goal and how secure the foundations of both the club and the sport are.

People would rather fiddle with things like competition structures than focus on the reality contained in the statements above or look for short cuts that aren't there.

Indeed, but he's said all that before and much of it is obvious platitudes. It's also somewhat ironically rooted in existing markets and is critical of unsustainable spending, which is also contrary to his positions at Harlequins, Melbourne Storm and, checks notes, Global Rapid Rugby...

He strikes me as someone who often states the obvious but simultaneously can't identify the obvious limitations of his points. 

[gingerjon]

Just now, Tommygilf said:

Indeed, but he's said all that before and much of it is obvious platitudes. It's also somewhat ironically rooted in existing markets and is critical of unsustainable spending, which is also contrary to his positions at Harlequins, Melbourne Storm and, checks notes, Global Rapid Rugby...

He strikes me as someone who often states the obvious but simultaneously can't identify the obvious limitations of his points. 

To be fair, he uses the Melbourne Storm example as one of just how much money and time you need.

Harlequins was an existing market and, at the time he was there anyway, was a model of sanity compared to the money-as-water that clubs such as Saracens participate in.

[marklaspalmas]

Union chap plugs book.

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, marklaspalmas said:

Union chap plugs book.

Melbourne Storm are a rugby union club?

[Tommygilf]

34 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

What I like about Evans is he sees the wood for the trees and doesn’t over-complicate things.

‘We all tend to go and watch the games we played, so if your participation numbers seriously diminish…your audience disappears’ is pretty obvious but often overlooked. 

That's on the one hand obvious, if you liked something enough to play it you're likely going to have a long term affinity for it.

But it also misses the huge number of people brought into sports audiences that didn't play. That is the far greater sum of people, far more diverse by every metric, and should be the obvious growth market. The extreme example being F1. Likewise, none of what he suggests addresses participation beyond that obvious initial point. It seems incredibly myopic.

[Man of Kent]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

That's on the one hand obvious, if you liked something enough to play it you're likely going to have a long term affinity for it.

But it also misses the huge number of people brought into sports audiences that didn't play. That is the far greater sum of people, far more diverse by every metric, and should be the obvious growth market. The extreme example being F1. Likewise, none of what he suggests addresses participation beyond that obvious initial point. It seems incredibly myopic.

Sport - including rugby league - is about players, from the little boy or girl who dreams of scoring the winning try at Old Trafford or Wembley, to the ageing Pennine League prop blowing out of his bum hole.

That should never be overlooked. 

[Tommygilf]

4 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

To be fair, he uses the Melbourne Storm example as one of just how much money and time you need.

Harlequins was an existing market and, at the time he was there anyway, was a model of sanity compared to the money-as-water that clubs such as Saracens participate in.

I note he doesn't say Melbourne was a waste either, which does render his criticism somewhat limited - or at best a platitude.

He ironically does criticise Harlequins as a failed market though as an on paper strong rugby area but simply unable to draw the large crowds. Yet he then goes on to talk about the span of towns between Salford and Huddersfield - which are exactly the same scenario on paper - and in as many words says "RL should have teams here!". Ignoring that we do, they're at pretty appropriate levels throughout (Oldham probably below because of the ground), and they are moving along at their own pace. 

I'm surprised, because he has mentioned it before, that Bradford weren't brought up.

I get the sense he was hoping to be proven right by covid and hasn't been yet

[Tommygilf]

5 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Sport - including rugby league - is about players, from the little boy or girl who dreams of scoring the winning try at Old Trafford or Wembley, to the ageing Pennine League prop blowing out of his bum hole.

That should never be overlooked. 

Of course sport is. But professional sport is an entertainment business.

RL is really good at the former, for a regional sport we offer some pretty excellent sporting opportunities. We are hit and miss with the latter.

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

I note he doesn't say Melbourne was a waste either, which does render his criticism somewhat limited - or at best a platitude.

He ironically does criticise Harlequins as a failed market though as an on paper strong rugby area but simply unable to draw the large crowds. Yet he then goes on to talk about the span of towns between Salford and Huddersfield - which are exactly the same scenario on paper - and in as many words says "RL should have teams here!". Ignoring that we do, they're at pretty appropriate levels throughout (Oldham probably below because of the ground), and they are moving along at their own pace. 

I'm surprised, because he has mentioned it before, that Bradford weren't brought up.

I get the sense he was hoping to be proven right by covid and hasn't been yet

I'm not going to defend him any more than I have because it's quite a superficial interview. Like I initially said, there's at least something to annoy everyone and something for everyone to nod at.

[Man of Kent]

2 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

What about the little boy or girl in Wolverhampton or Stoke that never get to see RL? 

Well, rugby league isn’t part of the social fabric in those places. This is Evans’ point. 

[Tommygilf]

4 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Well, rugby league isn’t part of the social fabric in those places. This is Evans’ point. 

Is F1 part of the social fabric anywhere? 

[Death to the Rah Rah's]

money talks, and I can see the day looming when one of the TV companies splashes the cash to try and form a new comp with the cream of British RU plus the likes of Leeds, Warrington, Hull, Wigan and Saints playing a new form of rugby using the best parts of both games

[Man of Kent]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

Is F1 part of the social fabric anywhere? 

In an indirect way. Most of us drive cars and there's ample crossover between F1 constructors & suppliers (engines, tyres) and everyday road vehicles. Indeed, that is much of the point of their involvement in F1 - to sell cars & car-related gear to Joe Public.

[gingerjon]

40 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

In an indirect way. Most of us drive cars and there's ample crossover between F1 constructors & suppliers (engines, tyres) and everyday road vehicles. Indeed, that is much of the point of their involvement in F1 - to sell cars & car-related gear to Joe Public.

F1 is a part of the social fabric of the parts of society it needs to be part of the fabric of.

It sells Rolex watches. It provides business opportunities in Monaco. It's a testing bed for sports car stuff you can flog to rich blokes with Ferraris and people who'd like to be rich blokes with Ferraris.