Blind side johnny Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 Is it only in RL that fans will queue up offering reasons why something that hasn't yet started will be a disaster/is a terrible idea whilst also bewailing the inability of the RFL to promote the game? Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted October 14, 2021 Author Share Posted October 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, The Rocket said: So you`re telling me a match featuring a local team, early in the evening, with family friendly sections, perhaps food stalls, or a hot-dog or a bucket of chips with your ticket so Mum doesn`t have to cook with a bit of pre-match and half time entertainment i.e a bit of a carnival atmosphere and especially if everyone knows that it is going to be televised and not some half-arsed tv production, but done properly - you wouldn`t be able to market one or two of these games a season per club. Surely it`s worth a try. Maybe not to a bunch of old farts on an internet forum, but aimed at young people, especially families and perhaps the curious. That's a different question. Could that be done? Sure. Is Monday evening in the UK a big ticket evening? No. It's not and never has been. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted October 14, 2021 Author Share Posted October 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said: Is it only in RL that fans will queue up offering reasons why something that hasn't yet started will be a disaster/is a terrible idea whilst also bewailing the inability of the RFL to promote the game? No, it's not. I'd expect fans of all sports to be critical of a deal that is unequal in how the money will be distributed, opaque on the requirements placed on the game, offers minimal scope for visibility, and could very easily wind up costing more than it brings in. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 1 minute ago, whatmichaelsays said: I agree that you can't necessarily "football can do it, so can we" and I equally agree that weeknights pose a challenge, but how many times - and in how many contexts - do we say that "RL needs to broaden beyond the same people"? This is another one of those times and contexts. If we're going to take the broadcaster cash that comes with strings that we play on weeknights, then the sport has options - either accept that the crowds will be lower and quit complaining about it, or find ways to make it work. I don't think there is any town in RL land where there aren't people looking for some sort of entertainment on a Thursday night - the question is whether RL clubs are finding ways to offer what those people want. I think the sport has done exactly what you say above. They accepted the trade off of large pots of money meaning the move to Thursday can be justified (accepting that we should still be doing everything we can to sell every seat) - my reason for bringing it up here is as the money has dropped we have found ourselves in this position by default. I think we really need a value by slot that we should be selling on. We are back to money of around 10 years ago (not taking inflation into account) yet we are now having to stage big derbies on a Thursday night instead of the Friday night or Saturday evening. I think this is just an example of muddled strategy. If you are staging games on Thursday and Friday nights - you may as well go all in for the darts-type crowds - but we appear to persist with this family game point, which doesn't really work with the scheduling we have. I believe this has had an impact on crowds over the last decade or so. A quick scan to 10 years ago shows that we used to stage 7 games a week - usually 3 on a Friday, 1 on Saturday and 3 on Sunday. In 2001 - 66% of games were on Sat/Sun In 2011 - 56% of games were on Sat/Sun In 2019 - 41% of games were on Sat/Sun This is all fine, as long as we have moved with the changes and accepted that targeting young kids with cheap tickets and getting into schools as marketing ploys will only go so far if you are then staging your events to finish at 10pm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 9 minutes ago, The Rocket said: So you`re telling me a match featuring a local team, early in the evening, with family friendly sections, perhaps food stalls, or a hot-dog or a bucket of chips with your ticket so Mum doesn`t have to cook with a bit of pre-match and half time entertainment i.e a bit of a carnival atmosphere and especially if everyone knows that it is going to be televised and not some half-arsed tv production, but done properly - you wouldn`t be able to market one or two of these games a season per club. Surely it`s worth a try. Maybe not to a bunch of old farts on an internet forum, but aimed at young people, especially families and perhaps the curious. Whilst I'm not as down on this deal as many others here, I think you are portraying a rather romanticised view of this. These games are likely to finish just before 10pm on a Monday night with the majority of the season in term-time. In reality, your target audience on a Monday night is older blokes who may get out and have a Monday pint. We can't present 'family carnival style events' on Monday nights like this. There is a reason carnivals aren't on Monday nights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rocket Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 5 minutes ago, gingerjon said: Is Monday evening in the UK a big ticket evening? No. It's not and never has been. 3 minutes ago, gingerjon said: No, it's not. I'd expect fans of all sports to be critical of a deal that is unequal in how the money will be distributed, opaque on the requirements placed on the game, offers minimal scope for visibility, and could very easily wind up costing more than it brings in. So it really becomes a chicken or the egg type situation. If you can make it an event in each town/city it is held every week and get your 5 or 6000 down and it looks great on TV and everyone has a great evening then although it is probably unlikely to get too many non-League fans signing up it certainly might get more League fans who want to see a bit of good quality League - the Championship already has a reputation for being a more open entertaining brand of League - on monday night. But certainly the first step would be getting the crowd in and the TV viewers might follow after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Kevin Sinfield Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, Dave T said: Whilst I'm not as down on this deal as many others here, I think you are portraying a rather romanticised view of this. These games are likely to finish just before 10pm on a Monday night with the majority of the season in term-time. In reality, your target audience on a Monday night is older blokes who may get out and have a Monday pint. We can't present 'family carnival style events' on Monday nights like this. There is a reason carnivals aren't on Monday nights. A free pint or soft drink with every Monday night ticket isn’t a bad idea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidey Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 56 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said: So as a fan of the biggest club in the pond So you're not a fan of Leigh then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweaty craiq Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 1 minute ago, The Rocket said: So it really becomes a chicken or the egg type situation. If you can make it an event in each town/city it is held every week and get your 5 or 6000 down and it looks great on TV and everyone has a great evening then although it is probably unlikely to get too many non-League fans signing up it certainly might get more League fans who want to see a bit of good quality League - the Championship already has a reputation for being a more open entertaining brand of League - on monday night. But certainly the first step would be getting the crowd in and the TV viewers might follow after that. Tell me your marketing strategy for this scenario: Its monday 1st Feb and whitehaven v York has been selected for tv, its pitch black at 6pm and the weather is -3C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweaty craiq Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 Just now, Spidey said: So you're not a fan of Leigh then? Bradford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidey Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 19 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said: Is it only in RL that fans will queue up offering reasons why something that hasn't yet started will be a disaster/is a terrible idea whilst also bewailing the inability of the RFL to promote the game? Yes only us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rocket Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 6 minutes ago, Dave T said: These games are likely to finish just before 10pm on a Monday night with the majority of the season in term-time. Surely if it kicked off at 7pm it would all be wrapped up by 9, kids in bed by 10. And it only has to be once or twice a year per club wouldn`t it, so it`s an event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rocket Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 4 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said: Tell me your marketing strategy for this scenario: Its monday 1st Feb and whitehaven v York has been selected for tv, its pitch black at 6pm and the weather is -3C. I`m not going to argue with that, that would be a hard sell. But when do the days start getting longer in your part of the world, April, May and then pretty well right through to the end of the comp. All I`m going off is I look at the long evenings here at this time of year and I`d think if the local team had a game on proper TV and it was marketed right in our town of about 20 000 they`d get a decent crowd down there to make it look like a spectacle. And as I keep saying it ain`t every week, just a couple of times a year - an event. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweaty craiq Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 16 minutes ago, The Rocket said: I`m not going to argue with that, that would be a hard sell. But when do the days start getting longer in your part of the world, April, May and then pretty well right through to the end of the comp. All I`m going off is I look at the long evenings here at this time of year and I`d think if the local team had a game on proper TV and it was marketed right in our town of about 20 000 they`d get a decent crowd down there to make it look like a spectacle. And as I keep saying it ain`t every week, just a couple of times a year - an event. You have a decent chance May onwards and in school holidays, so about 8 per annum. At present a club could have 5 games at home for no income and be forced to sell cheap tickets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derwent Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 55 minutes ago, Dave T said: Whilst I'm not as down on this deal as many others here, I think you are portraying a rather romanticised view of this. These games are likely to finish just before 10pm on a Monday night with the majority of the season in term-time. In reality, your target audience on a Monday night is older blokes who may get out and have a Monday pint. We can't present 'family carnival style events' on Monday nights like this. There is a reason carnivals aren't on Monday nights. Especially on a freezing, wet Monday night in February and March..... I’m not prejudiced, I hate everybody equally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave T Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 42 minutes ago, The Rocket said: Surely if it kicked off at 7pm it would all be wrapped up by 9, kids in bed by 10. And it only has to be once or twice a year per club wouldn`t it, so it`s an event. Apologies I've missed the 7pm kick off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derwent Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 It always makes me laugh when people talk about marketing in reference to the Championship and how clubs should market the games better. It may be relevant to the bigger places like Newcastle and Sheffield but do people not think that in places like Featherstone, Whitehaven, Dewsbury, even Leigh, that the locals aren't fully aware they they have a team and where and when they play ? If they wanted to watch RL they'd be doing it already. The only marketing that is effective at that level is a winning team, the bandwagon effect. Look at the crowds both Barrow and Workington pulled in L1 this year as an example. But I guarantee you that should either team be really struggling next season then crowds will be less than half what they were getting this year. The fairweather fans won't go and pay to watch a losing team no matter how many fireworks you set off. I’m not prejudiced, I hate everybody equally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerrumonside ref Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 22 minutes ago, Derwent said: It always makes me laugh when people talk about marketing in reference to the Championship and how clubs should market the games better. It may be relevant to the bigger places like Newcastle and Sheffield but do people not think that in places like Featherstone, Whitehaven, Dewsbury, even Leigh, that the locals aren't fully aware they they have a team and where and when they play ? If they wanted to watch RL they'd be doing it already. The only marketing that is effective at that level is a winning team, the bandwagon effect. Look at the crowds both Barrow and Workington pulled in L1 this year as an example. But I guarantee you that should either team be really struggling next season then crowds will be less than half what they were getting this year. The fairweather fans won't go and pay to watch a losing team no matter how many fireworks you set off. I think the key is to make more of the game than just, “it’s XXX playing XXX”. There’s far more that can be done than just marketing around the sporting merit of each team, but sure a winning team sells. I think the problem isn’t that the clubs lack ideas, enthusiasm or competence - but more perhaps there is a lack of actual finances or seed money to execute on what they might like to do. I think the big mistake that’s often made is to only assume cost is a factor on whether people will attend. I believe making it worth someone’s time is much more important, as leisure time is at a premium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crashmon Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 On the plus side to all of this Premier Sports are not going to show a game in front of around 200-300 fans in a 9k Seater stadium, where the home side is beaten by 60-70 points, and the only question will be, will the home team score or be nilled. So from where I am sitting, I'm not actually expecting any home monday night games for my team(if they even make next season with all of 2 players signed up) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatmichaelsays Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 38 minutes ago, Derwent said: It always makes me laugh when people talk about marketing in reference to the Championship and how clubs should market the games better. It may be relevant to the bigger places like Newcastle and Sheffield but do people not think that in places like Featherstone, Whitehaven, Dewsbury, even Leigh, that the locals aren't fully aware they they have a team and where and when they play ? If they wanted to watch RL they'd be doing it already. The only marketing that is effective at that level is a winning team, the bandwagon effect. Look at the crowds both Barrow and Workington pulled in L1 this year as an example. But I guarantee you that should either team be really struggling next season then crowds will be less than half what they were getting this year. The fairweather fans won't go and pay to watch a losing team no matter how many fireworks you set off. You're confusing marketing with advertising. People in Whitehaven might be aware of Whitehaven's rugby team, but are they aware of what they offer, what the matchday experience is like and how they're adapting that offer to cater to a broader range of people? You can't just hook your entire approach on a good team and a good match on the field. You have to create an event that, no matter what the result, people go away feeling that they've had a good time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind side johnny Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 42 minutes ago, Derwent said: It always makes me laugh when people talk about marketing in reference to the Championship and how clubs should market the games better. It may be relevant to the bigger places like Newcastle and Sheffield but do people not think that in places like Featherstone, Whitehaven, Dewsbury, even Leigh, that the locals aren't fully aware they they have a team and where and when they play ? If they wanted to watch RL they'd be doing it already. The only marketing that is effective at that level is a winning team, the bandwagon effect. Look at the crowds both Barrow and Workington pulled in L1 this year as an example. But I guarantee you that should either team be really struggling next season then crowds will be less than half what they were getting this year. The fairweather fans won't go and pay to watch a losing team no matter how many fireworks you set off. Given that for every winning team there is a losing one, then we are all wasting our time hoping for growth in traditional areas, if I follow your logic correctly. Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 1 hour ago, Blind side johnny said: Is it only in RL that fans will queue up offering reasons why something that hasn't yet started will be a disaster/is a terrible idea whilst also bewailing the inability of the RFL to promote the Well what's your opinion BS, 1. Do you think it will be of financial benefit to the clubs? Do you consider that the 6K return will be more than they will lose on the turnstiles both from home and away supporter's and refreshment sales. 2. Are you going to subscribe to Premier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted October 14, 2021 Author Share Posted October 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said: You're confusing marketing with advertising. People in Whitehaven might be aware of Whitehaven's rugby team, but are they aware of what they offer, what the matchday experience is like and how they're adapting that offer to cater to a broader range of people? You can't just hook your entire approach on a good team and a good match on the field. You have to create an event that, no matter what the result, people go away feeling that they've had a good time. Whilst I don't think there are (m)any additional opportunities in this Premier deal, I also entirely agree with this. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Stottle Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 24 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said: There’s far more that can be done than just marketing around the sporting merit of each team, but sure a winning team sells. Totally agree on a Sunday Afternoon, but let's just stick to this topic for a moment regarding Monday night games, finishing work and making it to the ground for the pre match entertainment will be hard enough for the locals, probably non existent for away fans, and then the post match shenanigins who is going to hang around late on a Monday Night if it is school for the kids and work next day for the grown up's, not a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerrumonside ref Posted October 14, 2021 Share Posted October 14, 2021 1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said: Totally agree on a Sunday Afternoon, but let's just stick to this topic for a moment regarding Monday night games, finishing work and making it to the ground for the pre match entertainment will be hard enough for the locals, probably non existent for away fans, and then the post match shenanigins who is going to hang around late on a Monday Night if it is school for the kids and work next day for the grown up's, not a lot. It’s not going to be easy and I understand your concerns as a Leigh fan whose team will probably feature more than some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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