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Can Saints Make It Four-in-a-Row?


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Should be no problem according to some on here , in every game Saints have the ref the line judges and the video ref on their side.

 

Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor but because we cannot satisfy the rich.

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Hurrell is not an upgrade on anyone!

Even though our utter, unquestioned dominance in the sport has ended, all Wiganers believe that we are really just indulgently letting the other teams win for a while in order to make it more interesting.

Stuart Maconie, Cider with Roadies

"cause people often talk about being scared of change but for me I'm more afraid of things staying the same cause the game is never won by standing in any one place for too long"

Nick Cave

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Saints definitely have a good chance of making it 4 in a row. Experience tends to win you big games and their strength is their middles and within that you've got the experience of Walmsley, Amor and LMS along with Roby at hooker. Amor, LMS and Roby going around again means that core of players is staying together. If you look at the stats Saints still get very good returns from Amor and LMS, comparable with the top props at other clubs. With the incomparable Walmsley in there too it's easy to see why Saints are so dominant right now. There may be a risk that next year with those players a year older it might be one year too many and that's where Saints may dip in comparison to this season. 

It's hard to see any team reaching a higher level than Saints are currently given it's not the easiest market for signing players. If another team does win the Grand Final next season I feel it's probably going to be because Saints suffer a dip in performance rather than another side going above and beyond where Saints currently are.

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10 hours ago, voteronniegibbs said:

And what do the forum members who don't support Saints think? 

I think NO, please god NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

I do though have to think of the environment and wind power. If there was any way of harnessing the energy of of all those waving Scouse arms at every tackle, the energy crisis would be over in an instant.

 13 players, at least 2 waving arms per player, 50 tackes per game,  30 games a season makes approx 145 Mw hours per season.

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I don't think you'd want to bet against Saints at least making the Final next year. 

As we saw last night, it then comes down to fine margins - last night could easily have gone the other way.

It isn't St Helens 'fault'. It's really up to the other teams to get to that level. But are there teams that look like they might match Saints next season (apart from Catalans again)? Leeds? Wire? Wigan? Hull? Not really....

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I don't think the signings they've made will make them stronger by any significant amount, with Roby another year older (he doesn't appear to have faded too much yet tbf) and a key link in Coote removed (Welsby is class though) overall I'd say they will maintain their level. Despite this, I would argue there is plenty of scope for the rest of the top 6 to improve for next season.

With another full season refining the Clark/Williams/Widdop combo Wire will likely be improvers, need to sort out their prop situation though. 

Catalans wider squad will take a lot out of this season and will head into next year with strong depth plus youngsters pushing their claim. Maloney's replacement is the only major question here.

Lots of moving pieces at Wigan next season, plenty of talent floating around but possibly a big ask for a rookie coach to put it all together in his first season.

Leeds are a bit of a wildcard as they have a strong group of young stars that could all continue to kick on, have made some decent signings too.

KR will hopefully continue to build on their strong season this year, Coote is a big addition who obviously knows what it takes and will no doubt have an impact on an already talented spine.

 

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10 minutes ago, UTK said:

I don't think the signings they've made will make them stronger by any significant amount, with Roby another year older (he doesn't appear to have faded too much yet tbf) and a key link in Coote removed (Welsby is class though) overall I'd say they will maintain their level. Despite this, I would argue there is plenty of scope for the rest of the top 6 to improve for next season.

With another full season refining the Clark/Williams/Widdop combo Wire will likely be improvers, need to sort out their prop situation though. 

Catalans wider squad will take a lot out of this season and will head into next year with strong depth plus youngsters pushing their claim. Maloney's replacement is the only major question here.

Lots of moving pieces at Wigan next season, plenty of talent floating around but possibly a big ask for a rookie coach to put it all together in his first season.

Leeds are a bit of a wildcard as they have a strong group of young stars that could all continue to kick on, have made some decent signings too.

KR will hopefully continue to build on their strong season this year, Coote is a big addition who obviously knows what it takes and will no doubt have an impact on an already talented spine.

 

Although Roby will be a year older he will have the quality of Lussick along side so will be able to massively reduce his minutes and pick and choose his games more. 
Coote as you say will be a loss but again he will be another year older and had a really slow start to this season. My understanding is that Lomax will move to fullback so creativity wise we won’t lose a lot. That will then allow Dodd and Welsby to be the half backs as they are more comfortable playing with each other. 
then Sironen coming in I’m not sure whether he is here to replace Thompson or if he’ll get bumped up to prop to give those boys a hand probably a bit of both. You then add Bell  from Leigh who is probably a bit of a down grade on Bentley but not massively. The one position I’m not convinced on is Hurrell for a Naigama in a time that is built on work rate like this one can you carry Hurrell. I don’t know if there’s plans to blood a youngster at centre, another to come in or shift another player there. I just don’t think Hurrells got a full season of centre left in him. 

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19 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

Although Roby will be a year older he will have the quality of Lussick along side so will be able to massively reduce his minutes and pick and choose his games more. 
Coote as you say will be a loss but again he will be another year older and had a really slow start to this season. My understanding is that Lomax will move to fullback so creativity wise we won’t lose a lot. That will then allow Dodd and Welsby to be the half backs as they are more comfortable playing with each other. 
then Sironen coming in I’m not sure whether he is here to replace Thompson or if he’ll get bumped up to prop to give those boys a hand probably a bit of both. You then add Bell  from Leigh who is probably a bit of a down grade on Bentley but not massively. The one position I’m not convinced on is Hurrell for a Naigama in a time that is built on work rate like this one can you carry Hurrell. I don’t know if there’s plans to blood a youngster at centre, another to come in or shift another player there. I just don’t think Hurrells got a full season of centre left in him. 

I assume Will Hopoate will likely take Naiqamas centre spot. To be honest Bell had skipped my mind and I'm a fair fan of his so I think that's actually a quality signing. 

The Lomax move is interesting as he's the best 6 going around at the moment, I guess I can see the logic in moving him back though as Welsby/Dodd could easily become a 10+ year pairing. Willing to give Woolf the benefit of the doubt there given his record so far.

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1 minute ago, UTK said:

I assume Will Hopoate will likely take Naiqamas centre spot. To be honest Bell had skipped my mind and I'm a fair fan of his so I think that's actually a quality signing. 

The Lomax move is interesting as he's the best 6 going around at the moment, I guess I can see the logic in moving him back though as Welsby/Dodd could easily become a 10+ year pairing. Willing to give Woolf the benefit of the doubt there given his record so far.

Yeah I’d forgotten about the Hopoate signing so there’s my answer. 

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1 minute ago, Saint 1 said:

Welsby is fullback with Lomax still in the halves. You forgot Hopoate, who is Naiqamas replacement. Hurrell is just an option at centre or second row

As I say that’s not what I’ve heard. Yes I forgot Hopoate. 

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47 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

Although Roby will be a year older he will have the quality of Lussick along side so will be able to massively reduce his minutes and pick and choose his games more. 
Coote as you say will be a loss but again he will be another year older and had a really slow start to this season. My understanding is that Lomax will move to fullback so creativity wise we won’t lose a lot. That will then allow Dodd and Welsby to be the half backs as they are more comfortable playing with each other. 
then Sironen coming in I’m not sure whether he is here to replace Thompson or if he’ll get bumped up to prop to give those boys a hand probably a bit of both. You then add Bell  from Leigh who is probably a bit of a down grade on Bentley but not massively. The one position I’m not convinced on is Hurrell for a Naigama in a time that is built on work rate like this one can you carry Hurrell. I don’t know if there’s plans to blood a youngster at centre, another to come in or shift another player there. I just don’t think Hurrells got a full season of centre left in him. 

Hopoate will play centre, although could cover FB. Interesting call on Lomax, I can see this happening yet Woolf was very clear on Welsby at FB.

*sorry typed all that without reading other responses.

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14 minutes ago, Saint 1 said:

Unless things have drastically changed since the end of July, you may have heard wrong. Here's Kristian Woolf saying so - https://www.saintsrlfc.com/2021/07/29/welsby-to-be-saints-full-back-in-2022/

Maybe things changed when Fages got injured and Dodd got a run in the side effectively claiming the half back spot. I suppose we will see next year. 

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Welsby and Dodd are very good. Particularly Welsby who is developing into an exceptional player.

Unless others step up then Saints will be favourites come next October as I don't think they are going to get worse.

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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I don't think that we will. Coote is a huge loss and as good as Welsby is, to slot in at full back will still take time. I am not sure if Hopoate will be an upgrade on Naiqama, Dodd is good but is still a teenager and may struggle at times, which is to be expected. LMS and Amor are a year older and time may catch up with them.

We have also had a very good run with injuries for several years which is unlikely to sustain for a further season. It is very difficult to do 3 in a row, there's a reason why few teams in any sport do it (and a reason why even less do 4 in a row).

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Although the score was close, the end result was always going to be a Saints win. Plus they won the Cup, and so had to peak twice. In league express last week, MS have his view that there was as little prospect of anyone getting close to them over the next few years as when Wigan were in our pomp. 

They will be clear favourites with daylight a distant second for at least the next couple of years.
 

There are too many flaws in coaching youth development (with Wigan’s being too much of it, and most others too little) or recruitment pretty much everywhere else. Given that we have already seen most of the recruitment for next year, it is clear that no one else is really stepping up. It is exactly as we were back in the late 80s/early 90s. 

So, I think that they will certainly win at least a couple more, and would be favourites for 6 in a row; though before ever smaller crowds, especially given the tedious efficient grinding approach. It is possible though by 2024 there will be a credible challenger if there is a sudden decline or they get hit by injuries (or referees improve). 

Next year will be much better as, NRL permitting, we will have a World Cup to focus on, and so can pretty much ignore the 4th win and focus on the build up to that. 

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4 hours ago, paulwalker71 said:

I don't think you'd want to bet against Saints at least making the Final next year. 

As we saw last night, it then comes down to fine margins - last night could easily have gone the other way.

It isn't St Helens 'fault'. It's really up to the other teams to get to that level. But are there teams that look like they might match Saints next season (apart from Catalans again)? Leeds? Wire? Wigan? Hull? Not really....

I think my team (Leeds) will be much stronger next year, we’ve played this year without any sort of settled half back pairings (I think weve had 16 different combinations  this year)

The young kids are a year older and hopefully Walker is back injury free. This means weve got 3 good halfbacks plus Myler as cover, we’ve also got back a very talented kid in Corey Johnson who could be like a new signing if he fulfils his promise.

We are short of a prop and a winger, I think the club will rectify that in the off season.

 

Im not suggesting we will be as good as Saints but I think we’ll see is back to something like again.

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