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Fourteen Team Super League


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Well done Toulouse and welcome to Super League.

Now that the experiment / vision to invite French clubs into the English structure is paying off, isn't this the right time to make Super League a 14 team competition?

This could be a big opportunity for rugby league in Europe, but I think the game would be shooting itself in the foot to try and run with only 10 English teams.

It's 14 for me.

Go big or go home.

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Wibble

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Ooo, another league restructure thread.

Kill me now.

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"We are easily breakable, by illness or falling, or a million other ways of leaving this earthly life. We are just so much mashed potato."  Don Estelle

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There are the players and the more that experience SL, the better they would get. There is only one fly in the ointment and that is money. It won’t happen without unless Sky pay more for an expanded league and I don’t see that. I'd love 14 teams but….

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My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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2 hours ago, RayCee said:

There are the players and the more that experience SL, the better they would get. There is only one fly in the ointment and that is money. It won’t happen without unless Sky pay more for an expanded league and I don’t see that. I'd love 14 teams but….

Or if you tell French Tv we will lock your teams in with a TV deal so that French teams are effectively paying for themselves.

 

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14 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Or if you tell French Tv we will lock your teams in with a TV deal so that French teams are effectively paying for themselves.

 

So SL clubs would divvy up the UK Sky money among 12 teams and the two French clubs based would finance themselves through a deal they can get? 

I'm not sure a TV deal in France would go anyway near what they currently would get. Long term maybe.

Even if they could do their own TV deal, I'm not sure SL would want to split it 12 ways. Surely they'd do a 10 way split and increase their take if history is anything to go by. Like the idea though.

My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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21 minutes ago, RayCee said:

So SL clubs would divvy up the UK Sky money among 12 teams and the two French clubs based would finance themselves through a deal they can get? 

Yeah long term has to be the aim which is why you need to lock French teams in. Give the tv company,clubs and commercial partners security to market and sell the French Rivalry. 

Think as the bottom clubs are replaced by teams for who are a bit more commercially orientated  (York,Newcastle) the vote will swing towards going to 14,  and take the reduction). 

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8 hours ago, Futtocks said:

Ooo, another league restructure thread.

Kill me now.

I've just got this interactive pdf of a multi conference system to download and we'll be good to go ...

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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8 hours ago, voteronniegibbs said:

This could be a big opportunity for rugby league in Europe, but I think the game would be shooting itself in the foot to try and run with only 10 English teams.

It's 14 for me.

Go big or go home.

The proposal seemingly favoured by some of RLs very senior leaders, including Rimmer and Davy, is for a 10 team SL in 2023 (the 2x10 model).

If Toulouse survive in 2022 alongside Catalans (when there will presumably be 2 teams relegated and no promotion to get SL down to the 10) then it would be a league with only 8 English teams in it, which is crazy.

Toulouse going up and not Featherston has probably reduced the chance of a 2x10 system in 2023, too much risk for the established SL clubs.

14 clubs for me, 1 up and 1 down.

Edited by Whippet13
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It certainly should be a 14 team SL with 2 French teams. That was the original SL vision, it would have only taken 25+ years to get there.

It makes sense in every way, it's only greed from SL clubs that will prevent it so that they can cut the pie less ways. That's really not a very good reason for not doing so. Too many strategic decisions are taken solely with a short term financial view and that's why the game continually goes round in circles. 

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2 minutes ago, Alan Robertson said:

I don't think that a 14-team SL is a good idea, the standard is already low enough without spreading the talent even more thinly.

The talent is there. The exposure at top level is what is required to bring that talent out. 

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My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Alan Robertson said:

I don't think that a 14-team SL is a good idea, the standard is already low enough without spreading the talent even more thinly.

It as ever is about money. If there are 14 teams who can spend competitively and recruit well using that money then 14 teams makes sense. 

The reason the "quality" has suffered is because we do not have every team capable of spending anything like the already low cap.

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31 minutes ago, cookey said:

In principle I'd like to see a 14 team SL,if the money,players were there,in reality,a number of existing SL clubs are not worth their place due to inadequate facilities,crowds or non matchday revenue.

Whilst clubs that have those things ready York Newcastle cant grow because of one up one down. 

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I also think people get the players thing backward.  Theres enough players at junior level but problem is there are too many clubs who cant pay enough to make staying in the game at full time level a viable option.

Thought experiment if every club in SL was spending 3 million would there be a player shortage? Of course not. 

Aim has to be to get clubs with the strongest commercial and attendance potential  (Newcastle and York ) a chance to realise that by exposure to SL.  Open it to 14 and over a 4 year cycle the pie will grow. 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

Or if you tell French Tv we will lock your teams in with a TV deal so that French teams are effectively paying for themselves.

 

How much would the french TV need to pay the two clubs to make this work?

Is it realistic considering they’ve not given Catalans anything?

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14 teams for me,12 English,2 overseas,promote Fev & keep Leigh in,give them all a 3 year license with a stringent enforceable set of minimum standards which if not achieved clubs to be replaced by clubs from the Championship who do.

Will never happen due to greed & shortsightedness.

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11 minutes ago, Southerner said:

How much would the french TV need to pay the two clubs to make this work?

Is it realistic considering they’ve not given Catalans anything?

In the short term no. Once people see what those three Tou vs Cat games will look like I think yep. One team on its own not enough for critical mass tv deal. Why ottawa without Toronto is silly. 

Long term 3 million euros.  Works out 1.25 mil each and some to the fed.  

Right now if the offer was less than 2 million  (thats for every home game,  sharing away game feeds challenge cup grand final and annual France vs England) you get fta coverage instead. 

What we cannot do now is a stupid move to ten and throw away this once in a lifetime chance to transform the game in France. Stay at 12 with 2 French locked in if we must but both must stay in now. 

Edited by ShropshireBull
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34 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Whilst clubs that have those things ready York Newcastle cant grow because of one up one down. 

York are a part time team and Newcastle have only just announced they’re going full time - while I agree they show great promise they’re miles away from SL. 

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21 minutes ago, Eddie said:

York are a part time team and Newcastle have only just announced they’re going full time - while I agree they show great promise they’re miles away from SL. 

Chicken and egg.  The question is not what are their attendaces now or spend now but if they were in SL would they contribute and be able to spend more than Salford and Wakefield.  

The answer is clearly yes .

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5 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

It as ever is about money. If there are 14 teams who can spend competitively and recruit well using that money then 14 teams makes sense. 

The reason the "quality" has suffered is because we do not have every team capable of spending anything like the already low cap.

Indeed. People that harp on about spreading the talent too thinly are completely missing the causes of why SL is a competition of haves and have nots. Money and resources are the issue, not a lack of talent. If Wakefield, Salford were spending another million on their squad, off field setup and academy then they would undoubtedly be much stronger.

We heard all the spreading talent too thinly arguments in going from 14 to 12 and there was absolutely no improvement in standards.

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6 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Chicken and egg.  The question is not what are their attendaces now or spend now but if they were in SL would they contribute and be able to spend more than Salford and Wakefield.  

The answer is clearly yes .

Serious question - do you think YCK could be more popular in York than York City FC? 

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