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52 minutes ago, theswanmcr said:

I want them protected because losing Catalans Dragons would be disastrous (it nearly happened a few years ago). Lesser so Toulouse at the minute because that is just potential but even this would be bad for the sport as a whole.

2 hours ago, theswanmcr said:

Nope I think for SL you do need a hybrid system. Two French clubs should be locked-in with no relegation.

If the English want to carry on with the crazy promotion system (crazy because as a sport we’re not strong enough for it) then the bottom one of those goes down.

Truth is you’d only need Leeds, Wigan or Saints to have a nightmare season and come close to relegation and you’d soon see an unsurprising call for a return to licensing for English clubs too!

 

Of course it could also happen to big English clubs like Leeds but less likely. 

Swapping one small northern English town for another is one thing, swapping any one of two French teams for another small northern English town is just plain stupid in terms of trying to grow the game and Super League.

But then we would be running 2 different systems within the same league. It would impact on integrity. We could have final games where teams are close at the top yet one is playing a side that has to win to stay up whereas the other is playing one that can't be relegated. 

Or would the lower of the French clubs be relegated and replaced by the French Championship winner. But then we could have a second placed club being relegated. Also you could have a situation where a French city is replaced by a French small town. Would that be acceptable? 

Also who goes down if a Canadian or other European team is promoted? 

 

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13 hours ago, Niels said:

But then we would be running 2 different systems within the same league. It would impact on integrity. We could have final games where teams are close at the top yet one is playing a side that has to win to stay up whereas the other is playing one that can't be relegated. 

Or would the lower of the French clubs be relegated and replaced by the French Championship winner. But then we could have a second placed club being relegated. Also you could have a situation where a French city is replaced by a French small town. Would that be acceptable? 

Also who goes down if a Canadian or other European team is promoted? 

 

Super League needs to be seen more as a competition with places reserved for governing bodies rather than a league controlled by one governing body IMO.

If it is deemed beneficial to the whole to have x-teams from one area and they bring in money, there needs to be a presence guaranteed there.

How the governing bodies decide which teams qualify for said competition is up to them. If it is 10 RFL and 2 FFR13 clubs, it should be up to them how they qualify. If RFL want to relegate their lowest placed clubs or have them go through a qualifier, that didn't affect the French places.

That's my view anyway.

Edited by Wellsy4HullFC
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54 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Unfortunately, as has been commented many time, that’s P&R in SL.  Not enough time to prepare a squad etc.

There are a couple of players currently playing in Elite that I think might be snapped up by TO before the SL season starts.  TO might have a little more strength in depth than Leigh but they face the same predicament.

Who face the same predicament? Leigh’s recruitment is coming along very well. The majority of players for TO are still contracted. That’s TO’s issue.

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21 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Super League needs to be seen more as a competition with places reserved for governing bodies rather than a legit controlled by one governing body IMO.

If it is deemed beneficial to the whole to have x-teams from one area and they bring in money, there needs to be a presence guaranteed there.

How the governing bodies decide which teams qualify for said competition is up to them. If it is 10 RFL and 2 FFR13 clubs, it should be up to them how they qualify. If RFL want to relegate their lowest placed clubs or have them go through a qualifier, that didn't affect the French places.

That's my view anyway.

Thanks, I think you have explained the logistics really well. 

I have many other questions but I will save those for another day🙂

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Saint Toppy said:

Because Catalans have been such a huge success in bringing through lots of French players to strengthen their national team haven't they !!!

Losing Catalans wont be disastrous, just like losing Bradford wasn't (which everyone claimed it was at the time)

Catalans have done naff all to improve their national team so losing them from SL wont make a blind bit of difference - well except maybe having 1 less retirement home for antipodeans !!

Over half the players for Sunday's test match are from the Catalans Dragons squad. Other Dragons players like Bousquet and Garcia were injured in the GF. Exactly how much do you want a single club to do?

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55 minutes ago, Tabby said:

Who face the same predicament? Leigh’s recruitment is coming along very well. The majority of players for TO are still contracted. That’s TO’s issue.

The same predicament in that TO face the same challenges - little time to recruit, shallow squad depth.

My comment had absolutely nothing to do with Leigh’s current status or plans.  

One thing I would say though on the current status is that we’ll see who’s plan is effective and who’s isn’t.  

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5 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

The same predicament in that TO face the same challenges - little time to recruit, shallow squad depth.

My comment had absolutely nothing to do with Leigh’s current status or plans.  

One thing I would say though on the current status is that we’ll see who’s plan is effective and who’s isn’t.  

Leigh’s 2021 plan was simple, recruit a squad to be around the top of the Championship and add to it for the last Third and play offs in the spots needed. Getting the SL nod meant we had to find 5/6 quality at 100k plus contracts to compete, we couldn’t find them it was too late and the NRL players weren’t travelling in the pandemic. The 2022 plan is similar except the squad will be better than the SL one to start the season

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39 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

Leigh’s 2021 plan was simple, recruit a squad to be around the top of the Championship and add to it for the last Third and play offs in the spots needed. Getting the SL nod meant we had to find 5/6 quality at 100k plus contracts to compete, we couldn’t find them it was too late and the NRL players weren’t travelling in the pandemic. The 2022 plan is similar except the squad will be better than the SL one to start the season

Compete or be gone scenario. Let’s see how Toulouse deal with it.

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50 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

The same predicament in that TO face the same challenges - little time to recruit, shallow squad depth.

My comment had absolutely nothing to do with Leigh’s current status or plans.  

One thing I would say though on the current status is that we’ll see who’s plan is effective and who’s isn’t.  

Completely different scenarios. Which can’t be compared.

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6 hours ago, Saint Toppy said:

Because Catalans have been such a huge success in bringing through lots of French players to strengthen their national team haven't they !!!

Losing Catalans wont be disastrous, just like losing Bradford wasn't (which everyone claimed it was at the time)

Catalans have done naff all to improve their national team so losing them from SL wont make a blind bit of difference - well except maybe having 1 less retirement home for antipodeans !!

Yeah because that’s the sole criteria that any team is based on right? 🤦‍♂️

Think we need to get rid of Hull FC and KR too - they’ve done pretty much naff all to improve our national team. And it’s a long way from ‘the heartlands’.

Let’s just have Saints, Wigan and Leeds play each other 15 times a season to decide the Holland’s Pie and Mushy Peas Sooper Dooper League. Then we’ll go on and win the World Cup thanks to all that extra ‘talent’ we will have time to focus on in a tiny bit of England instead of wasting time and money elsewhere. Sorted.

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Toppy - you seriously don't believe losing Bradford as a major force has been a huge negative for the sport??

Unbelievable. Despite Odsal being a hole, they were one of the few SL clubs even theoretically capable of real scale. They were mismanaged and overspent, but holy cow what wouldn't you give for a 2000s-era Bradford, complete with Bullmania and everything else?

While it wasn't 'disastrous' immediately, I'd say the decline of Bradford was a big part of the decline in the game as a whole over the last decade. 

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11 hours ago, sweaty craiq said:

Leigh’s 2021 plan was simple, recruit a squad to be around the top of the Championship and add to it for the last Third and play offs in the spots needed. Getting the SL nod meant we had to find 5/6 quality at 100k plus contracts to compete, we couldn’t find them it was too late and the NRL players weren’t travelling in the pandemic. The 2022 plan is similar except the squad will be better than the SL one to start the season

Add to the squad in the ‘hope’ that there are players available and if they aren’t go down the loan route?  

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1 minute ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

The French squad contains 10 players from Catalans and 9 players from Toulouse, how can anyone say they do nothing to improve the French National team? 

Very few posters are other than the few holding prejudice against the French clubs.  

The same posters whose teams have a history of recruiting french players.

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13 hours ago, Tabby said:

Who face the same predicament? Leigh’s recruitment is coming along very well. The majority of players for TO are still contracted. That’s TO’s issue.

There are some still to re-sign unfortunately. There are a couple of other SL sides sniffing around a couple of TO players, I would hate to see them go after being part of this successful team but that's the nature of the beast when it comes to bigger clubs and more success. 

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1 hour ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

The French squad contains 10 players from Catalans and 9 players from Toulouse, how can anyone say they do nothing to improve the French National team? 

Well lets wait & see how many they get hammered by this weekend, even with one of the most inexperienced England teams ever with 8 international debutants.

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30 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

Well lets wait & see how many they get hammered by this weekend, even with one of the most inexperienced England teams ever with 8 international debutants.

1. France losing to England does not show that Catalans and Toulouse are not improving the French National team

2. It’s also a weakened French team, having only 1 Super League club, they have much less depth than England. France coach Laurent Frayssinous said: “This group combines experience and youth with 10 players who are likely to celebrate their first selection in blue.

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/france-name-squad-for-england-test/

Edited by Sir Kevin Sinfield
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7 hours ago, BrisbaneRhino said:

Toppy - you seriously don't believe losing Bradford as a major force has been a huge negative for the sport??

Unbelievable. Despite Odsal being a hole, they were one of the few SL clubs even theoretically capable of real scale. They were mismanaged and overspent, but holy cow what wouldn't you give for a 2000s-era Bradford, complete with Bullmania and everything else?

While it wasn't 'disastrous' immediately, I'd say the decline of Bradford was a big part of the decline in the game as a whole over the last decade. 

I would agree but Bulls did that to ourselves sadly and we are the póster child for some much wrong with the game : Overspent on wages,  neglected infrastructure. Didnt retrench when we could in a position of strength. 

I am hoping Toulouse vs Catalan can be the new Bulls vs Leeds to give us back another big rivalry. 

Bulls will do well to just survive in the current climate.  

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1 hour ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

1. France losing to England does not show that Catalans and Toulouse are not improving the French National team

 

Of course it does !

One of the claims made for parachuting Catalans into SL was that they would provide increased numbers of French players and improve the national team, thus giving England / GB some meaningful northern hemisphere competition. 15 years on the French national teams performances are as bad, if not worse than they were pre-Catalans.

And before you start banging on about numbers of French players just look at the GF team, a whopping 3 French players in the Catalans starting 13 and only 5 in the total 17

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17 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Super League needs to be seen more as a competition with places reserved for governing bodies rather than a league controlled by one governing body IMO.

If it is deemed beneficial to the whole to have x-teams from one area and they bring in money, there needs to be a presence guaranteed there.

How the governing bodies decide which teams qualify for said competition is up to them. If it is 10 RFL and 2 FFR13 clubs, it should be up to them how they qualify. If RFL want to relegate their lowest placed clubs or have them go through a qualifier, that didn't affect the French places.

That's my view anyway.

Very well put and simply explained and exactly how I see it too. 

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On 20/10/2021 at 09:50, dkw said:

Have they lately? Who?

To be fair you didn't state you meant lately. How lately do you want to go? HKR stayed up fairly recently. Toronto almost doesnt count as we dont know how well they would have finished and Leigh last year wasnt a real promotion but let's count it. So the last few years, Leigh down twice, once from a hail mary that was never going to work, Toronto played 6 games so who knows, London who were very unlucky and HKR stayed up.

Go back over the history of SL and most promoted teams stayed up their first year and even Leigh and Cas didnt finish bottom in two of those relegations.

I'm not saying it's easy but there is plenty of precedent for promoted teams staying up from Wakey in 1998 through to HKR a couple of years ago.

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If there are 10 players from Catalans, the league shield winners, then it should be a strong French side, their best for a long time.

Coming from a smaller nunber of clubs also has advantages in familiarity. 

It is a pity Theo Fages is injured. I would have liked to have seen how he plays for France. I think it will be difficult to win without him. 

 

 

 

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17 hours ago, BrisbaneRhino said:

Toppy - you seriously don't believe losing Bradford as a major force has been a huge negative for the sport??

Unbelievable. Despite Odsal being a hole, they were one of the few SL clubs even theoretically capable of real scale. They were mismanaged and overspent, but holy cow what wouldn't you give for a 2000s-era Bradford, complete with Bullmania and everything else?

While it wasn't 'disastrous' immediately, I'd say the decline of Bradford was a big part of the decline in the game as a whole over the last decade. 

It wasn't overspending , it was not earning 

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1 hour ago, Niels said:

If there are 10 players from Catalans, the league shield winners, then it should be a strong French side, their best for a long time.

Coming from a smaller nunber of clubs also has advantages in familiarity. 

It is a pity Theo Fages is injured. I would have liked to have seen how he plays for France. I think it will be difficult to win without him. 

 

 

 

Yes classical French player from Salford.

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