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Redcliffe Dolphins chosen as preferred NRL expansion club


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On 13/10/2021 at 16:39, Martyn Sadler said:

The new club has already made two serious mistakes.

Dropping its name 'Redcliffe' and appointing Wayne Bennett as its inaugural coach.

'Dolphins' without the name Redcliffe is an amorphous identity that doesn't work.

The club has been extremely successful as the Redcliffe Dolphins and to change its name at this stage is crazy, as would have been the idea to call the club the Brisbane Dolphins.

Given that half the clubs in the NRL are named after suburbs of Sydney, with the same true of the AFL in Melbourne and football in London, the idea that its location name had to be dropped is lunacy.

Meanwhile Wayne Bennett will be 73 years old by the time the 2023 season starts. To give him a three-year contract as the coach of the new club, rather than employing a younger, more vibrant figure, looks to me to be the height of optimism.

Having said that, perhaps being able to announce him as a figurehead at this stage will help with recruitment, so maybe that underlies the decision.

 

You obviously don't live in Brisbane. The club must have a larger representation than just Redcliffe. Which merged their council with Caboolture Shire and Pine Rivers Shire into the Moreton Bay Regional Council. I grew up 15mins from Redcliffe in Brisbane's northern suburbs. I even worked in Redcliffe. But Redcliffe also has a very undeserved stigma. It has a nickname "Deadcliffe". Easts and the Bombers/Jets already tried to minimalise the club by referring to them as merely Redcliffe during the bidding process. Which was very disingenuous. Luckily the NRL didn't buy it.

The fact is that Queensland licenses in the NRL have been severely limited. We had to fight tooth and nail for a third and finally got a fourth. We can't follow the Suburban model of the NSWRL and VFL from decades and decades ago, even a hundred years ago. We have to think bigger.

The new club will represent Brisbane's northern suburbs, Pine Rivers, Redcliffe and towards the Sunshine Coast. And even Central QLD has been mooted. We need this so more areas of Queensland can be services.

While it has been mentioned that they will be "The Dolphins" now, it seems like they will announce a name in the future. And I think they should.

Quote

ARL Commission chair Peter V’landys added: “They have agreed to work with NRL management on the branding exercise and that was one of the conditions of their entry.

“At the moment, they sought to be called just the Dolphins and we accepted that. We’ll be seeking fan feedback, we will do a study with the supporters and their feelings will be considered, absolutely.”

There needs to be a strong connection to Brisbane to tap into its anti-Broncos supporter base, corporate sector, media and Lang Park.

AFL's Brisbane Lions are moving their training and administration base to Ipswich, so I don't see the big deal in the Dolphins being based in Redcliffe. 

Seeing you throw around terms like lunacy, crazy and serious mistakes is hilarious to me. I'm definitely bookmarking this to return to in the future.

Bennett is also a great signing because he automatically makes it a bitter rivalry with the Broncos. Bennett has an axe to grind. It really captures people's imagination. Suddenly the media, the fans and the neutrals are very interested. Bennett (With the help of other great people such as Cyril Connor) built the Broncos from the ground up. His expertise in building the Dolphins pathways will pay off in the years to come. Once things have been established, younger blood can be brought in. 

I can't wait for the Battle of Brisbane 2023.

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DIEHARD / TITAN / MAROON / KANGAROO

 

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8 hours ago, Omott91 said:

Dropping Redcliffe was the best decision they have made. They want to have broad appeal and having a name of a suburb 40kms from the Brisbane cbd will not do that. English clubs could learn something here.

Bennett was by far the best choice, the rivalry writes itself and who cares what his age is?  

Hear hear. 

DIEHARD / TITAN / MAROON / KANGAROO

 

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11 minutes ago, DlEHARD said:

You obviously don't live in Brisbane. The club must have a larger representation than just Redcliffe. Which merged their council with Caboolture Shire and Pine Rivers Shire into the Moreton Bay Regional Council. I grew up 15mins from Redcliffe in Brisbane's northern suburbs. I even worked in Redcliffe. But Redcliffe also has a very undeserved stigma. It has a nickname "Deadcliffe". Easts and the Bombers/Jets already tried to minimalise the club by referring to them as merely Redcliffe during the bidding process. Which was very disingenuous. Luckily the NRL didn't buy it.

The fact is that Queensland licenses in the NRL have been severely limited. We had to fight tooth and nail for a third and finally got a fourth. We can't follow the Suburban model of the NSWRL and VFL from decades and decades ago, even a hundred years ago. We have to think bigger.

The new club will represent Brisbane's northern suburbs, Pine Rivers, Redcliffe and towards the Sunshine Coast. And even Central QLD has been mooted. We need this so more areas of Queensland can be services.

While it has been mentioned that they will be "The Dolphins" now, it seems like they will announce a name in the future. And I think they should.

There needs to be a strong connection to Brisbane to tap into its anti-Broncos supporter base, corporate sector, media and Lang Park.

AFL's Brisbane Lions are moving their training and administration base to Ipswich, so I don't see the big deal in the Dolphins being based in Redcliffe. 

Seeing you throw around terms like lunacy, crazy and serious mistakes is hilarious to me. I'm definitely bookmarking this to return to in the future.

Bennett is also a great signing because he automatically makes it a bitter rivalry with the Broncos. Bennett has an axe to grind. It really captures people's imagination. Suddenly the media, the fans and the neutrals are very interested. Bennett (With the help of other great people such as Cyril Connor) built the Broncos from the ground up. His expertise in building the Dolphins pathways will pay off in the years to come. Once things have been established, younger blood can be brought in. 

I can't wait for the Battle of Brisbane 2023.

Very insightful post from someone that's local. 

What do you think the club should be called? Brisbane Dolphins, North Brisbane Dolphins?

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44 minutes ago, DlEHARD said:

You obviously don't live in Brisbane. The club must have a larger representation than just Redcliffe. Which merged their council with Caboolture Shire and Pine Rivers Shire into the Moreton Bay Regional Council. I grew up 15mins from Redcliffe in Brisbane's northern suburbs. I even worked in Redcliffe. But Redcliffe also has a very undeserved stigma. It has a nickname "Deadcliffe". Easts and the Bombers/Jets already tried to minimalise the club by referring to them as merely Redcliffe during the bidding process. Which was very disingenuous. Luckily the NRL didn't buy it.

The fact is that Queensland licenses in the NRL have been severely limited. We had to fight tooth and nail for a third and finally got a fourth. We can't follow the Suburban model of the NSWRL and VFL from decades and decades ago, even a hundred years ago. We have to think bigger.

The new club will represent Brisbane's northern suburbs, Pine Rivers, Redcliffe and towards the Sunshine Coast. And even Central QLD has been mooted. We need this so more areas of Queensland can be services.

While it has been mentioned that they will be "The Dolphins" now, it seems like they will announce a name in the future. And I think they should.

There needs to be a strong connection to Brisbane to tap into its anti-Broncos supporter base, corporate sector, media and Lang Park.

AFL's Brisbane Lions are moving their training and administration base to Ipswich, so I don't see the big deal in the Dolphins being based in Redcliffe. 

Seeing you throw around terms like lunacy, crazy and serious mistakes is hilarious to me. I'm definitely bookmarking this to return to in the future.

Bennett is also a great signing because he automatically makes it a bitter rivalry with the Broncos. Bennett has an axe to grind. It really captures people's imagination. Suddenly the media, the fans and the neutrals are very interested. Bennett (With the help of other great people such as Cyril Connor) built the Broncos from the ground up. His expertise in building the Dolphins pathways will pay off in the years to come. Once things have been established, younger blood can be brought in. 

I can't wait for the Battle of Brisbane 2023.

Thanks for that,great to hear from someone with an understanding of RL in & around Brisbane although I’m sure the big dog will be around shortly to argue against all your valid points.

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9 hours ago, Omott91 said:

Dropping Redcliffe was the best decision they have made. They want to have broad appeal and having a name of a suburb 40kms from the Brisbane cbd will not do that. English clubs could learn something here.

Bennett was by far the best choice, the rivalry writes itself and who cares what his age is?  

“English clubs could learn something here”

Not having your location in your name is not an Aussie concept. I’d hazard a guess and say Arsenal, an English club, is the most famous sports club on the planet without a location in its name. This idea is brand new to the NRL:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Rugby_League#Current_clubs

To go from 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redcliffe_Dolphins

to this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dolphins_(NRL)

It looks bereft of an identity. 

The name Dolphins is too common. It’s also the nickname of a much more famous entity. It highlights another issue (to me anyway) which is the Americanisation of Aussie team names (and names in the rugby codes here), but at least if it was say North Brisbane Dolphins, it would at least have an Australian feel, and also say a lot more of who they are.

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1 hour ago, The Daddy said:

Very insightful post from someone that's local. 

What do you think the club should be called? Brisbane Dolphins, North Brisbane Dolphins?

That's a tough question TBH and things pull be in different ways.

I know the NRL's CEO mentioned it 3-4 times in the announcement that they will be The Dolphins. So we have some mixed messages. I would give them a geographic name but lean into The Dolphins in my messaging.

Also Dolphins bid chief (Not Dolphins boss) says it'll be The Dolphins. https://www.zerotackle.com/dolphins-name-decision-explained-following-expansion-bid-111024/

I'm Brisbane biased and we have the Olympics coming up. But I feel it's important to embrace the other areas too. 

I think this time where the name is up for debate has going people thinking and talking. It's generating some buzz.

I think Moreton Bay Dolphins would be the front runner. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moreton_Bay

Sunshine State Dolphins would be weird as it is the nickname for the entire state. 

South Queensland seems vague and less relevant than North Queensland. It also has the stigma of being attached to the old SQ Crushers.

North Brisbane Dolphins is another candidate.

I think the fact that they are the Dolphins, play in red and white (Maybe with the addition of gold?), are based at Redcliffe for admin and training and will even play games there is enough for the Dolphin diehards. Plus they will still have their Queensland Cup side named Redcliffe.

I think that the footprint of North Brisbane, Moreton Bay Region and Sunshine Coast is correct. We just need to settle on a name. I can see why The Dolphins would be chosen and it doesn't surprise me or bother me. It can mean something to everyone. What really matters is what happens on the ground in the different areas to make people embrace the Dolphins. At the end of the day I'd prefer a geographic name attached.

The NRL seems pretty keen on the Sunshine Coast - Central Queensland idea.

Club colours and logo will be announced next week. I imagine they will include gold which has featured on the Bid logo and merch.

Edited by DlEHARD
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DIEHARD / TITAN / MAROON / KANGAROO

 

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24 minutes ago, DC77 said:

“English clubs could learn something here”

Not having your location in your name is not an Aussie concept. I’d hazard a guess and say Arsenal, an English club, is the most famous sports club on the planet without a location in its name. This idea is brand new to the NRL:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Rugby_League#Current_clubs

To go from 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redcliffe_Dolphins

to this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dolphins_(NRL)

It looks bereft of an identity. 

The name Dolphins is too common. It’s also the nickname of a much more famous entity. It highlights another issue (to me anyway) which is the Americanisation of Aussie team names (and names in the rugby codes here), but at least if it was say North Brisbane Dolphins, it would at least have an Australian feel, and also say a lot more of who they are.

Pretty sure the Dolphins of Redcliffe were in existence long before the Miami version was and the full name of the club hasn’t been decided yet by all accounts.

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20 minutes ago, DC77 said:

I’d hazard a guess and say Arsenal, an English club, is the most famous sports club on the planet without a location in its name. 

Juventus might have something to say about that 🙂

Redcliffe are of course a couple of decades older than the Miami dolphins.

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Dolphins is synonymous with Rugby League in Queensland.

Here is some more things to think about.

- Who will be the Dolphins Feeder clubs? 

- The Derby with the Titans will also be juicy for two reasons.

1. The Gold Coast bid was originally the Gold Coast Dolphins (Teal, orange and white) and there was a massive shitfight over the name. Redcliffe threatened to sue the GC over it. It got a lot of people off side. It seemed reckless. And then they chose a new name, the Titans with a new colour scheme. I don't think they'll forget about that.

2. The Titans were very vocal against their admission as a 17th club. 

Dolphins vs Titans will be spicy. 

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2 hours ago, DlEHARD said:

You obviously don't live in Brisbane. The club must have a larger representation than just Redcliffe. Which merged their council with Caboolture Shire and Pine Rivers Shire into the Moreton Bay Regional Council. I grew up 15mins from Redcliffe in Brisbane's northern suburbs. I even worked in Redcliffe. But Redcliffe also has a very undeserved stigma. It has a nickname "Deadcliffe". Easts and the Bombers/Jets already tried to minimalise the club by referring to them as merely Redcliffe during the bidding process. Which was very disingenuous. Luckily the NRL didn't buy it.

The fact is that Queensland licenses in the NRL have been severely limited. We had to fight tooth and nail for a third and finally got a fourth. We can't follow the Suburban model of the NSWRL and VFL from decades and decades ago, even a hundred years ago. We have to think bigger.

The new club will represent Brisbane's northern suburbs, Pine Rivers, Redcliffe and towards the Sunshine Coast. And even Central QLD has been mooted. We need this so more areas of Queensland can be services.

While it has been mentioned that they will be "The Dolphins" now, it seems like they will announce a name in the future. And I think they should.

There needs to be a strong connection to Brisbane to tap into its anti-Broncos supporter base, corporate sector, media and Lang Park.

AFL's Brisbane Lions are moving their training and administration base to Ipswich, so I don't see the big deal in the Dolphins being based in Redcliffe. 

Seeing you throw around terms like lunacy, crazy and serious mistakes is hilarious to me. I'm definitely bookmarking this to return to in the future.

Bennett is also a great signing because he automatically makes it a bitter rivalry with the Broncos. Bennett has an axe to grind. It really captures people's imagination. Suddenly the media, the fans and the neutrals are very interested. Bennett (With the help of other great people such as Cyril Connor) built the Broncos from the ground up. His expertise in building the Dolphins pathways will pay off in the years to come. Once things have been established, younger blood can be brought in. 

I can't wait for the Battle of Brisbane 2023.

Thanks for your post. I'm perfectly happy for you to reference my post any time you want.

As I've already explained, the name of a club reflects the identity of the club itself, but doesn't limit the potential support it might draw. Hopefully the people of Moreton Bay and beyond will support the club whatever it's called and I'm sure there will be a development on its name in the near future.

As for Bennett, I haven't said that he shouldn't be involved in the club. I can certainly see your point about the potential bitter rivalry with the Broncos. But I don't think he should be the coach, and perhaps, at the end of the day, he won't be. Unfortunately coaches have a life span, like the rest of us, but the club is wise to draw on his expertise, particularly at this stage of its development on recruitment, both of coaching staff and of players.

I'm looking forward as much as you are to the Battle of Brisbane in 2023.

And if the Dolphins get full houses for every game in 2023 and Bennett leads them to an inaugural Grand Final victory, please feel free to come back on here and embarrass me. I actually hope you will be doing.

 

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5 hours ago, JonM said:

Juventus might have something to say about that 🙂

Redcliffe are of course a couple of decades older than the Miami dolphins.

Fair shout. 

Just this Aussie telling us we should learn something, when no geographic location in a name is a new thing for them (of the current NrL teams anyway).

One of the folks at the club defended the name saying “who doesn’t love a dolphin?”, true, but sport is tribal (I assume it’s no different in Aus), and not having something a bit more specific than just “the Dolphins” might not be as appealing as they hope. 

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7 hours ago, JonM said:

Juventus might have something to say about that 🙂

Redcliffe are of course a couple of decades older than the Miami dolphins.

And Flamengo, Vasco da Gama and Independiente. 

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8 hours ago, DlEHARD said:

Dolphins is synonymous with Rugby League in Queensland.

Here is some more things to think about.

- Who will be the Dolphins Feeder clubs? 

- The Derby with the Titans will also be juicy for two reasons.

1. The Gold Coast bid was originally the Gold Coast Dolphins (Teal, orange and white) and there was a massive shitfight over the name. Redcliffe threatened to sue the GC over it. It got a lot of people off side. It seemed reckless. And then they chose a new name, the Titans with a new colour scheme. I don't think they'll forget about that.

2. The Titans were very vocal against their admission as a 17th club. 

Dolphins vs Titans will be spicy. 

Thanks mate I`ve learnt more in 10 minutes reading your posts about League in Queensland than I`ve known after 30 years.

Fight about the name Dolphins I had heard of before, good on Redcliffe for sticking to their guns and saying it`s ours, back-off Gold Coast.

Nick Politis has been vocal in the media down here the last few days saying another team out of Queensland soon, he`s got a lot of say in the game, he was saying if not Ipswich then Rocky in a few years, i.e. plant a team in between the Dolphins and Cowboys, he reckons there`s absolutely no other sports in that region and they`re League mad.

What also do you think of the comment I read that Firehawks failed because of a " lack of pathways " and Ipswich because of financial concerns. Ipswich does seem the next one for me though.

Edited by The Rocket
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Dropping Redcliffe from the name makes sense - this team is not aimed at Redcliffe people, its aimed at increasing the NRL's appeal in greater Brisbane, particularly the northside, and up to the Sunshine Coast. Given history in the Qld Cup, there'd be a lot of resistance from people attached to other clubs to follow a team called Redcliffe. They might get over it without the name, but there are a lot of hardcore league folk in and around Brisbane who would never support a Redcliffe team.

I used to go quite regularly to watch Redcliffe when my son was younger. The ground was an utter hole, and if they've kept the clubhouse (which lest anyone forgets is the source of all that money through pokies) it will look pretty ordinary. The stands look a bit rubbish too, although I'll probably have a look at going if they play there.  It can get pretty cold sitting in that ground on a winter's day with the wind blowing (I'm fully acclimatised to Brisbane so anything less than 25 degrees is officially 'freezing').

It makes absolute sense for the Dolphins to play big games at Suncorp, and smaller ones at their own stadium. I'm not sure how parking will work at Redcliffe - it used to be a nightmare when there were a couple of hundred at a game as they only had one small access road in and out. I assume they've got that sorted.

Just on the other bids, the Jets one was always problematic. Its too far from Brisbane and Ipswich just isn't that big and has no national presence (I imagine zero interest from NSW fans) and the club is relatively poor. 

Going against Easts is despite their supposed appeal to south of the river, there's never been any evidence of being able to get big followings from that area (the Gold Coast is a money trap for expansion because nobody who looks at teams there seemingly has a clue about the place other than 'there are a lot of rich people there').

Ultimately I think that was always just about a second Brisbane team. The Dolphins will create a second Brisbane team as well as expanding out of the city. I assume that probably swung it for them.

Personally I'd have gone for a second NZ club. There's more potential talent to be tapped there. Queensland is already drained routinely by the existing NRL clubs. There won't be many/any 'new' NRL-standard players as a result of this club. If anything the Dolphins will dilute the player pool further.

 

 

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Also, please ignore all the journey times re Redcliffe-Brisbane. Redcliffe always exaggerates how close it is to Brisbane in journey time. I used to commute to the city and it was an utter pain. It would only be less than 45 minutes by car in the middle of the night.  The train is well over an hour as it stops at all stations and the nearest station is 2.5 km away from the stadium so unless they put on express trains and buses to and from the station that's a long trek.

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7 hours ago, BrisbaneRhino said:

Also, please ignore all the journey times re Redcliffe-Brisbane. Redcliffe always exaggerates how close it is to Brisbane in journey time. I used to commute to the city and it was an utter pain. It would only be less than 45 minutes by car in the middle of the night.  The train is well over an hour as it stops at all stations and the nearest station is 2.5 km away from the stadium so unless they put on express trains and buses to and from the station that's a long trek.

Are you talking about my post?

I took it from the transport website 1 hour and 07 minutes.

The fact Kippa Ring is 2.5km from Redcliffe oval will not matter much if you are going from Kippa Ring to Suncorp will it?

Who is going to go by train to the Dolphin's ground when they play there a couple of times a year?

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On 13/10/2021 at 22:16, The Rocket said:

Redcliffe have been many times referred to as the `Manly` of the Queensland Cup.  Just as successful and being seen as being arrogant, which probably has something to do with their coastal location and the perceived ideas about being ` rich` if you live near the coast. Not necessarily true of course, but perceived that way.

Manly despite most of its` fans being working class were always seen as the `silvertails`.

Dropping Redcliffe would be an attempt to disassociate themselves from that reputation and to appeal to a wider fan base.

I`d suggest something like North Brisbane Dolphins might work better rather than just plain Dolphins.

 

 

 

Redcliffe is a Blue collar working class area, except for a few Houses facing the Coast that are worth millions.

They are nothing like Manly in Sydney. that is a wealthy area and one of the most expensive places to live in Sydney.

You  have no idea about Redcliffe it seems, its Ipswich or Logan by the Coast populated by Bogans with Mullets.

 

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42 minutes ago, Jonty58 said:

Redcliffe is a Blue collar working class area, except for a few Houses facing the Coast that are worth millions.

They are nothing like Manly in Sydney. that is a wealthy area and one of the most expensive places to live in Sydney.

You  have no idea about Redcliffe it seems, its Ipswich or Logan by the Coast populated by Bogans with Mullets.

 

The funny thing is the suburbs that Manly Warringah Sea Eagles traditionally drew its` supporters from: Brookvale, Warringah, Narrabeen, Mona Vale, Warriewood, etc. etc. and all those suburbs that stretch up the coast north from Manly were once very similar to your observation about Redcliffe, except maybe more with a surf culture. They were almost as far removed from the rest of Sydney as the moon and proud of it.

Manly being the southern most suburb of the peninsula would have certainly changed the most, with its` relatively good access to the North Sydney CBD and the city,  but still very painful if you drive or get a bus, the ferry is an option.

But the facts of the matter are, and I spent a lot of time up there, there are large parts of the peninsula that were very working class and large amounts of very modest housing and public housing as well.

But like the rest of the Sydney, and with the desire to live near the coast, combined with a population explosion, the cost of housing would have increased ridiculously in most of those suburbs and absolutely exploded in the more desirable parts.

 

 

 

 

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14 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

The funny thing is the suburbs that Manly Warringah Sea Eagles traditionally drew its` supporters from: Brookvale, Warringah, Narrabeen, Mona Vale, Warriewood, etc. etc. and all those suburbs that stretch up the coast north from Manly were once very similar to your observation about Redcliffe, except maybe more with a surf culture. They were almost as far removed from the rest of Sydney as the moon and proud of it.

Manly being the southern most suburb of the peninsula would have certainly changed the most, with its` relatively good access to the North Sydney CBD and the city,  but still very painful if you drive or get a bus, the ferry is an option.

But the facts of the matter are, and I spent a lot of time up there, there are large parts of the peninsula that were very working class and large amounts of very modest housing and public housing as well.

But like the rest of the Sydney, and with the desire to live near the coast, combined with a population explosion, the cost of housing would have increased ridiculously in most of those suburbs and absolutely exploded in the more desirable parts.

 

 

 

 

I know the the Northern Beaches pretty well.

They have always been expensive suburbs for many decades.

The only Housing commission poor areas on the northern peninsular were once around Dee Why and parts of Cromer, Collaroy.

The Northern Beaches, Eastern suburbs and the Cronulla/Shire are old established expensive beachside suburbs.

Redcliffe is nothing like that IMO

 

 

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On 15/10/2021 at 06:30, DC77 said:

Fair shout. 

Just this Aussie telling us we should learn something, when no geographic location in a name is a new thing for them (of the current NrL teams anyway).

One of the folks at the club defended the name saying “who doesn’t love a dolphin?”, true, but sport is tribal (I assume it’s no different in Aus), and not having something a bit more specific than just “the Dolphins” might not be as appealing as they hope. 

Super Rugby has teams with just nicknames and you wouldnt know where they are from, come across as souless franchises.

Embrace the clubs history gives it substance.

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On 14/10/2021 at 05:15, Omott91 said:

Dropping Redcliffe was the best decision they have made. They want to have broad appeal and having a name of a suburb 40kms from the Brisbane cbd will not do that. English clubs could learn something here.

Bennett was by far the best choice, the rivalry writes itself and who cares what his age is?  

I have a question for you.

How come Australian supporters accept rebranding like Sydney Roosters(Eastern Suburbs and still official name)and now with the Dolphins?

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9 minutes ago, Robthegasman said:

I have a question for you.

How come Australian supporters accept rebranding like Sydney Roosters(Eastern Suburbs and still official name)and now with the Dolphins?

Because they realise the overall strength of the game and an individual club is more important than tradition 

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14 minutes ago, The Daddy said:

Because they realise the overall strength of the game and an individual club is more important than tradition 

A good answer sir. And I think the quiz presenter would award you the points there.

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