The Billy Boston stand gonnneeeerrrrrr

[clogdance]

7 hours ago, Davo5 said:

Nope,your wrong.

No he's not. 

[Bearman]

6 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

25k capacity. Wigan getting 10 -11k a game.  Less than 50% full so another half empty stadium on Sky.  Its 7-8 k too big. 

20,000 people vieing for 19,000 seats creates a premium. It also means that in order to get a seat for a big game season tickets are bought to secure a  seats when a lesser game is being staged. For a clubs point a view there is an argument that it's better to have too few seats than a few too many.

[M j M]

Presumably the DW is getting to the stage where it will need some serious money spending on it so it makes sense that Wigan will be expected to pay a higher rent notwithstanding their declining attendances.

Pouring even more money into the pockets of a hostile landlord doesn't make much sense to me. The wealth which apparently lies behind the Wigan club means they should be making it a top priority, if at all possible, to find their own purpose-built home in Wigan with a capacity of say 20k.

[yipyee]

7 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

That atmosphere would be gone if they had a 25k stadium. Like Hull, they wouldn't fill it.

18k is more than enough for most clubs in SL I'd say. The occasional 20k+ crowd would make more sense as a special event in a bigger ground rather than having a huge stadium that's half empty most of the time except for maybe once a year.

The emphasis should be there to fill it. If they can for big games then the fanbase is there.

Just need more big games!

[Scubby]

1 hour ago, Bearman said:

20,000 people vieing for 19,000 seats creates a premium. It also means that in order to get a seat for a big game season tickets are bought to secure a  seats when a lesser game is being staged. For a clubs point a view there is an argument that it's better to have too few seats than a few too many.

In 1980 Wigan had 4-5k rattling around in Central Park. Seven years later they had 37,000.

Wigan is a huge historic club and should not be dumbing down its ambition. 

[Eddie]

11 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

Its not the main example but it does show that Wigan are going to start to fall behind their competitors because they are now in a ground that is too big and cannot commercially exploit.  Unless they can get back to 15k average any long term future for them involves copying Saints or Wire. 

15k? They’re light years from getting back to that, Wigan and Leeds’ attendance crash is imho the biggest issue in the professional game. 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

11 hours ago, yipyee said:

The emphasis should be there to fill it. If they can for big games then the fanbase is there.

Just need more big games!

The emphasis should always be to get as many people in as possible. Picking an unrealistic target ain't gonna make that any more likely.

Big games will always attract more. It doesn't mean every game will.

[sentoffagain2]

11 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

The emphasis should always be to get as many people in as possible. Picking an unrealistic target ain't gonna make that any more likely.

Big games will always attract more. It doesn't mean every game will.

   I can't understand why away supporters are not encouraged more.They add to the experience of the game.Do clubs try to encourage away support by putting ticket packages together.There is no reason why one section of the ground can't be reserved for away fans.Or do the clubs take their members support for granted and prefer to play in a half empty stadium or less.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

14 hours ago, Eddie said:

15k? They’re light years from getting back to that, Wigan and Leeds’ attendance crash is imho the biggest issue in the professional game. 

It's not the biggest issue, but it's a big issue. At one point they were both averaging 17k. Their drop-off is equivalent to losing a small club's worth of supporters.

[Eddie]

2 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

It's not the biggest issue, but it's a big issue. At one point they were both averaging 17k. Their drop-off is equivalent to losing a small club's worth of supporters.

A small club worth each. 

[shrek]

On 16/10/2021 at 11:59, Dave T said:

This seems an important line:

Instead, the East Stand will be renamed the Kingdom Group East Stand for Wigan Athletic fixtures in the 2021/22 football season.

Exactly.

Complete none story, stand renamed for Football fixtures only, which presumably means nothing more than a bit of signage and it appearing on printed tickets as means for the new owners to get a few quid in to the club coffers.  

Only ever heard it as being referred to as the East Stand by Latics or Warriors stands.  Same with the West Stand, not heard anyone refer to that as the Springfield Stand.

Presume the ground will also be renamed soon since I believe Whelan stopped paying for naming rights in 2018.  With large parts of the town still referring to it as "the JJB" not sure that'll make a great deal of difference to anyone's lives either, but Wigan being Wigan someone will have a moan!

[yipyee]

14 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

The emphasis should always be to get as many people in as possible. Picking an unrealistic target ain't gonna make that any more likely.

Big games will always attract more. It doesn't mean every game will.

True, but we shouldnt minimise our big games by the lack of effort to maximise our smaller games

[Eddie]

On 16/10/2021 at 13:54, yipyee said:

Dont they already rent for every game...

Every SL team should have a 25k stadium as a minimum.

 

They should invest in filling it.

11-12 k this year is more to do with the boring grind they have resorted to on the pitch.

Hull Kr play free flowing rugby with a great stadium atmosphere. 

25k? This isn’t football, no other sport in Europe would need 25k capacity for every team in the league. 

[Damien]

These stadium threads always go round in circles. Yes many clubs would benefit from different, or more suitable, stadiums but we are were we are. I will never forgive Dave Whelan for his role in the stadium and Wigan RL not owning any of it but as Lenegan has never shown any inclination towards building an alternative it is up to the club to make the most of it. I would certainly like them to seek an alternative but there has to be a will on the clubs part. Similarly I know Huddersfield fans would love a 12k stadium but short of that happening they are stuck where they are.

I do think we get too hung up on stadiums. From a Wigan point of view for me the biggest issue has been a decline in the really big crowds and events. It was only a few years ago that Wigan v Saints regularly sold out and matches against Warrington came pretty close or did one time from memory when they were made an event. Matches against Leeds always sold well. That has all been lost somewhat and that is a huge dent in an average attendance. I think other clubs tell a similar story from matches I see on TV.

Two big issues for me are loop fixtures and Thursday night games and it is certainly within the sports grasp to improve these things. Loop fixtures simply devalue the big games and make them less special and less of a must see event. I know some disagree but it is evident that plenty of people feel this way and it is certainly enough people to have an impact on attendances.

I am not against Thursday games if needs must but if they are to happen lets at least be sensible about it.  Looking at fixtures this year Wigan played 6 times on a Thursday and each time was against a Yorkshire team with Hull FC being the furthest. Cross penine travel can be bad enough at the best of times and that to me is just daft when they could play Salford, Leigh etc on a Thursday night instead. At least limit travel and make it easier for fans to attend.

That is before clubs working much harder to get fans to attend. I know the last 2 years have been tough but all clubs really need to make a concerted effort to get fans back next season before they are lost for good. Wigan have certainly gone off the boil from what they were doing when they averaged 16k.

A long winded post but I think stadiums being too big are the least of our problems in the main and in most cases are beyond our control so lets focus on improving the things we can control.

[JohnM]

I think stadiums being too big are the least of our problems in the main and in most cases are beyond our control so lets focus on improving the things we can control.

Agree entirely. 

Stand naming and ground sharing are the least of the clubs - and fans- concerns. 

Of course, should Wigan aquire their current stadium, there would be posts on here about the club wasting money on that, rather than on sales and marketing... and winning. 

I was at the full house game against Saints way back - 25K IIRC, so it IS (or was) possible and I do think that's where the club should be working hard.

[yipyee]

3 hours ago, Eddie said:

25k? This isn’t football, no other sport in Europe would need 25k capacity for every team in the league. 

It should be the benchmark, we should look to rise up and not follow the masses or we will become lost.

Where would soccer be if they had that attitude.

[Eddie]

1 minute ago, yipyee said:

It should be the benchmark, we should look to rise up and not follow the masses or we will become lost.

Where would soccer be if they had that attitude.

The same place as soccer is in many countries, thriving in stadiums with a less than 25k capacity. 

[yipyee]

3 hours ago, JohnM said:

I think stadiums being too big are the least of our problems in the main and in most cases are beyond our control so lets focus on improving the things we can control.

Agree entirely. 

Stand naming and ground sharing are the least of the clubs - and fans- concerns. 

Of course, should Wigan aquire their current stadium, there would be posts on here about the club wasting money on that, rather than on sales and marketing... and winning. 

I was at the full house game against Saints way back - 25K IIRC, so it IS (or was) possible and I do think that's where the club should be working hard.

They marketed the big one and follow ups. This was against Huddersfield and they got 20k ish every time so it is possible, they just need to put effort into it.

I dp get the feeling that the Salary cap holds us back on this point as if a club can earn enough to pay full cap then why bother spending to make more money to just pay more tax etc..

Clubs focus on paying the bills then winning trophys and a change in focus is one thing licencing got right.

[yipyee]

9 minutes ago, Eddie said:

The same place as soccer is in many countries, thriving in stadiums with a less than 25k capacity. 

Most the top SL clubs aimed for 25k capacity, are we just giving up now and we are saying 10k as this will guarentee spend at full cap?

The focus should be 25k for every game, we can then raise the cap and bridge the gap with Australia who are pulling away

[Eddie]

7 minutes ago, yipyee said:

Most the top SL clubs aimed for 25k capacity, are we just giving up now and we are saying 10k as this will guarentee spend at full cap?

The focus should be 25k for every game, we can then raise the cap and bridge the gap with Australia who are pulling away

Other than just writing that down, how do you propose that SL clubs each raise their attendances to 25k? 

[M j M]

4 hours ago, JohnM said:

I think stadiums being too big are the least of our problems in the main and in most cases are beyond our control so lets focus on improving the things we can control.

Agree entirely. 

Stand naming and ground sharing are the least of the clubs - and fans- concerns. 

Of course, should Wigan aquire their current stadium, there would be posts on here about the club wasting money on that, rather than on sales and marketing... and winning.

I don't think anyone in their right mind would say Wigan would have been wasting their money if they'd acquired the stadium. It was a golden opportunity to fix a whole load of the things the clubs appears to struggle with.

And whilst stadia aren't everything they are a huge part of a club's identity and culture. Huddersfield are the most extreme example but people's perceptions of that club - inside the town and out - would be massively different if they played in their own, fit for purpose venue.

I can't be certain what has driven Wigan's decline but a half empty ground that lacks an obvious Wigan RL identity can't be dismissed as a partial issue given how absolutely fundamental identity and pride in a club and its place in the world is to all sports fans.

[JohnM]

40 minutes ago, M j M said:

 

As well as not owning their own trailers, some transport operators don't even own their own tyres.

[JohnM]

30 minutes ago, M j M said:

I don't think anyone in their right mind would say Wigan would have been wasting their money if they'd acquired the stadium. It was a golden opportunity to fix a whole load of the things the clubs appears to struggle with.

And whilst stadia aren't everything they are a huge part of a club's identity and culture. Huddersfield are the most extreme example but people's perceptions of that club - inside the town and out - would be massively different if they played in their own, fit for purpose venue.

I can't be certain what has driven Wigan's decline but a half empty ground that lacks an obvious Wigan RL identity can't be dismissed as a partial issue given how absolutely fundamental identity and pride in a club and its place in the world is to all sports fans.

 I am in my right mind, though. I have a certificate to prove it, something I suspect you may not have.

Does the BBC own Media City? Does the Halle Orchestra own Bridgewater Hall? Does British Airways own their own planes? Does most companies own their own car and van fleets? 

 

[M j M]

22 minutes ago, JohnM said:

 I am in my right mind, though. I have a certificate to prove it, something I suspect you may not have.

Does the BBC own Media City? Does the Halle Orchestra own Bridgewater Hall? Does British Airways own their own planes? Does most companies own their own car and van fleets? 

 

If you don't know what the difference is between the customers of an airline and the supporters of a sports team and how those bodies of people interact, perceive and choose to spend their money with the respective businesses in an utterly different way then you are probably well in line for promotion to the board of Wigan RL.

Nobody is denying, I hope, that Wigan are in an invidiously weak financial position, especially compared to the Big Three. A quick look at their financial statements shows this. There are a lot of causes of that, but one of them is not being able to reap the full financial benefits of their own stadium; a secondary factor, in my opinion, is that the stadium does not reflect the club or its identity to the fans.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

9 hours ago, yipyee said:

Most the top SL clubs aimed for 25k capacity, are we just giving up now and we are saying 10k as this will guarentee spend at full cap?

The focus should be 25k for every game, we can then raise the cap and bridge the gap with Australia who are pulling away

Why stop at 25k? Why not 50k?...