The Billy Boston stand gonnneeeerrrrrr

[Wellsy4HullFC]

9 hours ago, yipyee said:

Most the top SL clubs aimed for 25k capacity, are we just giving up now and we are saying 10k as this will guarentee spend at full cap?

The focus should be 25k for every game, we can then raise the cap and bridge the gap with Australia who are pulling away

Why stop at 25k? Why not 50k?...

[Tommygilf]

There is somewhat of a point in this discussion about all seaters too. The capacity of the DW, John Smiths or KCOM aren't massively different from Headingley (or at least what it was). Yet by being oost hillsborough all seaters they are comparatively huge buildings, cavernous. This affects perceptions of the crowds/atmosphere.

Only the KCOM of those has the "lower bowl" as a possible feature to lessen this impact.

[Mr Frisky]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

There is somewhat of a point in this discussion about all seaters too. The capacity of the DW, John Smiths or KCOM aren't massively different from Headingley (or at least what it was). Yet by being oost hillsborough all seaters they are comparatively huge buildings, cavernous. This affects perceptions of the crowds/atmosphere.

Only the KCOM of those has the "lower bowl" as a possible feature to lessen this impact.

I think rail seating/standing would make a big difference to both crowds and atmosphere at Wigan.

[JohnM]

The thing that would really make a difference to crowds and atmosphere at Wigan would be attractive, exciting,  winning rugby with a couple of star players and a goal kicker.

[M j M]

19 minutes ago, JohnM said:

The thing that would really make a difference to crowds and atmosphere at Wigan would be attractive, exciting,  winning rugby with a couple of star players and a goal kicker.

I guess the increased crowds will have to wait for a few years yet then.

(Although I'm doubtful if Wigan attendances will bounce up with the announcement of a new goal kicker.)

[Martyn Sadler]

18 hours ago, M j M said:

I don't think anyone in their right mind would say Wigan would have been wasting their money if they'd acquired the stadium. It was a golden opportunity to fix a whole load of the things the clubs appears to struggle with.

And whilst stadia aren't everything they are a huge part of a club's identity and culture. Huddersfield are the most extreme example but people's perceptions of that club - inside the town and out - would be massively different if they played in their own, fit for purpose venue.

I can't be certain what has driven Wigan's decline but a half empty ground that lacks an obvious Wigan RL identity can't be dismissed as a partial issue given how absolutely fundamental identity and pride in a club and its place in the world is to all sports fans.

Not acquiring the stadium for the Rugby League club strikes me as the biggest lost opportunity for any club since the start of Super League.

Ian Lenagan has recruited an extremely wealthy individual to back his club and I can't understand why he didn't make a determined bid to buy the stadium.

Of course there are likely to be factors at play that we are not aware of, but the current situation must be immensely frustrating for Wigan supporters.

Sharing a stadium when you are not the primary tenant is fraught with risk.

[del capo]

2 hours ago, Martyn Sadler said:

Not acquiring the stadium for the Rugby League club strikes me as the biggest lost opportunity for any club since the start of Super League.

Ian Lenagan has recruited an extremely wealthy individual to back his club and I can't understand why he didn't make a determined bid to buy the stadium.

Of course there are likely to be factors at play that we are not aware of, but the current situation must be immensely frustrating for Wigan supporters.

Sharing a stadium when you are not the primary tenant is fraught with risk.

 The Administrators  ( and the EFL ) were not prepared to separate the soccer club from the stadium and the other assets. I think the soccer club was worth no more than £1. - the stadium and other land worth upwards of £3m. Lenegan didn't want to run a soccer club again but  bid  over the book value for the stadium.

Someone then sold  the Bahreinis a vision that Latics could get back into the Premier League within the foreseeable future and so much Gulf money is now flowing into them  that they should get out of Div 1 fairly easily before the  harsh reality of the football  Championship hits them.

Not much use to Wigan RL . Whilst they have the right to rent virtually forever the figure is renewable within the next couple of years  and aren't Wigan at present paying a yearly rent approx £500k less than for instance Hull FC  for that soccer stadium?

The Bahreinis don't need the income from multiple tenants. Possible tough times ahead for the cherry and whites.

[Martyn Sadler]

46 minutes ago, del capo said:

 The Administrators  ( and the EFL ) were not prepared to separate the soccer club from the stadium and the other assets. I think the soccer club was worth no more than £1. - the stadium and other land worth upwards of £3m. Lenegan didn't want to run a soccer club again but  bid  over the book value for the stadium.

Someone then sold  the Bahreinis a vision that Latics could get back into the Premier League within the foreseeable future and so much Gulf money is now flowing into them  that they should get out of Div 1 fairly easily before the  harsh reality of the football  Championship hits them.

Not much use to Wigan RL . Whilst they have the right to rent virtually forever the figure is renewable within the next couple of years  and aren't Wigan at present paying a yearly rent approx £500k less than for instance Hull FC  for that soccer stadium?

The Bahreinis don't need the income from multiple tenants. Possible tough times ahead for the cherry and whites.

When I saw that £3 million figure it seemed such an obvious move to buy it.

Without knowing the legal details it's difficult to comment, but I would have thought that buying the football club and then selling it on would have been a possibility.

[Damien]

1 hour ago, Martyn Sadler said:

When I saw that £3 million figure it seemed such an obvious move to buy it.

Without knowing the legal details it's difficult to comment, but I would have thought that buying the football club and then selling it on would have been a possibility.

They did offer £3.5 million but it was rejected by the administrator. 

[shrek]

4 hours ago, Martyn Sadler said:

Not acquiring the stadium for the Rugby League club strikes me as the biggest lost opportunity for any club since the start of Super League.

Ian Lenagan has recruited an extremely wealthy individual to back his club and I can't understand why he didn't make a determined bid to buy the stadium.

Of course there are likely to be factors at play that we are not aware of, but the current situation must be immensely frustrating for Wigan supporters.

Sharing a stadium when you are not the primary tenant is fraught with risk.

Has the operating company that runs the stadium ever made a profit?  I know in the last set of accounts before administration there was a loss of around £1.5 million and in the year before it was a loss of around £750k.

There may well have been some clever accounting going on there I'm not ever going to pretend to be clever enough to understand the mechanics of it.  But as a fan, they look to me like deal breaking losses in the scope of Super League clubs annual budget.  Bearing in mind, without the stadium there's no guarantee Latics would have found a buyers, leaving Lenagan with something of a white elephant stadium.

Even if a buyer had been found at least one had talked about LSV as a potential home.

Personally I think Lenagan did the right thing, plenty will disagree, but the figures just don't add up to me.

I'm also not sure how easy the administrators where to deal with, there was a bizarre story where the parents of Wigan Athletics club captain Jamie Jones, tried to buy the training facility at Euxton.  But the administrators didn't entertain the idea and instead sold it to Preston where there was a very strong ex Leeds United connection.

[Damien]

19 minutes ago, shrek said:

Has the operating company that runs the stadium ever made a profit?  I know in the last set of accounts before administration there was a loss of around £1.5 million and in the year before it was a loss of around £750k.

There may well have been some clever accounting going on there I'm not ever going to pretend to be clever enough to understand the mechanics of it.  But as a fan, they look to me like deal breaking losses in the scope of Super League clubs annual budget.  Bearing in mind, without the stadium there's no guarantee Latics would have found a buyers, leaving Lenagan with something of a white elephant stadium.

Even if a buyer had been found at least one had talked about LSV as a potential home.

Personally I think Lenagan did the right thing, plenty will disagree, but the figures just don't add up to me.

I'm also not sure how easy the administrators where to deal with, there was a bizarre story where the parents of Wigan Athletics club captain Jamie Jones, tried to buy the training facility at Euxton.  But the administrators didn't entertain the idea and instead sold it to Preston where there was a very strong ex Leeds United connection.

Just ask yourself if it was such a loss making operation why for 2 decades have various owners and recently the administrator ensured that ownership stays with Wigan Athletic? If it was losing £1.5 million a year then it would be nonsense to turn down a bid for £3 million.

[shrek]

2 minutes ago, Damien said:

Just ask yourself if it was such a loss making operation why for 2 decades have various owners and recently the administrator ensured that ownership stays with Wigan Athletic? If it was losing £1.5 million a year then it would be nonsense to turn down a bid for £3 million.

I'm fairly certain that the ownership was placed with Wigan Athletic because it had an on paper value of £27.9 million in the last set of accounts and Whelan was desperate to sell up so needed to include the assets.  Nobody would take the football club without it.

That 27.9 million wasn't so accurate when they came to test the market though!

[Saint Toppy]

On 17/10/2021 at 13:11, ShropshireBull said:

Also about creating 24/7 rev streams which isnt possible at the current place. 

Your right, the stadium size isn't the issue its the ownership. Saints may get lower average crowds than Wigan (their best in the SL era being around 14K) but owning their own stadium makes a world of difference to the financial viability of the club.

During lockdown they were getting paid by the Government to use the stadium as a Covid Vaccination centre, meaning they didn't have to lay-off / Furlough all their staff, instead using many of them as Covid Marshalls.  

[Damien]

32 minutes ago, shrek said:

I'm fairly certain that the ownership was placed with Wigan Athletic because it had an on paper value of £27.9 million in the last set of accounts and Whelan was desperate to sell up so needed to include the assets.  Nobody would take the football club without it.

That 27.9 million wasn't so accurate when they came to test the market though!

I know why Whelan did but what you say doesn't answer the question. Wigan RL bid £3.5 million for the stadium alone and Wigan Athletic was sold for less than that. You don't keep an asset that loses money for no reason, unless of course it is only losing money because of astute accounting and allows you to play there for less than what it would cost if you didn't own it.

[M j M]

34 minutes ago, Damien said:

I know why Whelan did but what you say doesn't answer the question. Wigan RL bid £3.5 million for the stadium alone and Wigan Athletic was sold for less than that. You don't keep an asset that loses money for no reason, unless of course it is only losing money because of astute accounting and allows you to play there for less than what it would cost if you didn't own it.

I imagine it wouldn't be a good look for the stadium to be making money whilst they then ask for substantial rent increases from their tenants. . .

I believe the DW doesn't have the most developed of corporate/non gameday sides but ownership and control of it is still going to be very beneficial for whichever party has it.

[del capo]

This years wage bill for the 54 Home Squad players at Division 1 Latics is £2.88 m per year , or £54.4 k per week. Probably another reason Leneghan decided to leave the football part to others........and their current squad has been largely picked up on free transfers rather than having to pay mega bucks each time.

Literally speaking a whole different ball game to RL.

[M j M]

13 minutes ago, del capo said:

This years wage bill for the 54 Home Squad players at Division 1 Latics is £2.88 m per year , or £54.4 k per week. Probably another reason Leneghan decided to leave the football part to others........and their current squad has been largely picked up on free transfers rather than having to pay mega bucks each time.

Literally speaking a whole different ball game to RL.

Well not really, comparing to this level at least, since Wigan's player wage roll isn't that much different from the soccer club's based on your figures.

[shrek]

30 minutes ago, del capo said:

This years wage bill for the 54 Home Squad players at Division 1 Latics is £2.88 m per year , or £54.4 k per week. Probably another reason Leneghan decided to leave the football part to others........and their current squad has been largely picked up on free transfers rather than having to pay mega bucks each time.

Literally speaking a whole different ball game to RL.

Based on what?  If your using the Salary Cap as a guide it was scrapped in Leagues 1 and 2 earlier this year.

 

[del capo]

28 minutes ago, shrek said:

Based on what?  If your using the Salary Cap as a guide it was scrapped in Leagues 1 and 2 earlier this year.

 

The point I have tried to make is that yes since the 2.5m cap was withdrawn Latics have paid top dollar in wages  for freed up players rather than as yet paying large transfer fees - a complaint already levelled at them  by many other Div 1 clubs .....

[yipyee]

19 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Why stop at 25k? Why not 50k?...

Now now lets not be silly

[yipyee]

On 18/10/2021 at 14:37, Eddie said:

Other than just writing that down, how do you propose that SL clubs each raise their attendances to 25k? 

Actually marketing the games would be a start.

Making it more than just about the rugby would help also, Bradford did this well at the start of super league.

For example look up jaxon de ville and compare that to SL equivilant

[Eddie]

50 minutes ago, yipyee said:

Actually marketing the games would be a start.

Making it more than just about the rugby would help also, Bradford did this well at the start of super league.

For example look up jaxon de ville and compare that to SL equivilant

Bradford were miles off 25k crowds. How would you market them to grow attendances by such a huge amount? 

[Scubby]

5 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Bradford were miles off 25k crowds. How would you market them to grow attendances by such a huge amount? 

They had a few crowds over 20k including 24k v Leeds in 1999 and 23k a couple of years later.

[Eddie]

14 minutes ago, Scubby said:

They had a few crowds over 20k including 24k v Leeds in 1999 and 23k a couple of years later.

Was their average ever anywhere near 20k though, let alone 25. Iirc it was more like 15k at the peak? 

[Padge]

4 hours ago, shrek said:

I'm fairly certain that the ownership was placed with Wigan Athletic because it had an on paper value of £27.9 million in the last set of accounts and Whelan was desperate to sell up so needed to include the assets.  Nobody would take the football club without it.

That 27.9 million wasn't so accurate when they came to test the market though!

This ^^^