The Toulouse Olympique Effect

[binosh]

Why are we talking about capping the amount of English teams in an English league (its clearly not European) with a British TV supplier?

Why aren’t we talking about capping the amount of french teams until they can contribute financially to the pot and bring in a French TV deal? Sponsorship, brands etc

We are doing a great job of resurrecting RL in France and hopefully it will strengthen their national team and nurture their kids but call me old fashioned it’s not helping England/Great Britain get any closer to the Aussies/Kiwi’s we are further away than ever.

When are the french RL authorities going stand on their own 2 feet ala Maurice Lyndsey and pioneer their own vision and future and radically professionalise their own game? There is certainly no incentive for them to do it at the minute as we spoon feed them in a bid to call it a so called Super League.

 

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

13 hours ago, LaneCoveTiger said:

I like that idea on the condition that they have to field a minimum amount of French players in their match day squad. It would basically mean France have a locked in percentage of clubs in Super League and would assist their chances of getting a paid TV deal.

This would only be acceptable if the same applied to English clubs. Personally I don’t agree it’s the right way to go.

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

4 minutes ago, binosh said:

Why are we talking about capping the amount of English teams in an English league (its clearly not European) with a British TV supplier?

Why aren’t we talking about capping the amount of french teams until they can contribute financially to the pot and bring in a French TV deal? Sponsorship, brands etc

We are doing a great job of resurrecting RL in France and hopefully it will strengthen their national team and nurture their kids but call me old fashioned it’s not helping England/Great Britain get any closer to the Aussies/Kiwi’s we are further away than ever.

When are the french RL authorities going stand on their own 2 feet ala Maurice Lyndsey and pioneer their own vision and future and radically professionalise their own game? There is certainly no incentive for them to do it at the minute as we spoon feed them in a bid to call it a so called Super League.

 

Because it doesn’t matter if we have 10 British teams or 12 British teams in Super League, the sky tv deal will have the same value, replacing Catalans and Toulouse with 2 Championship teams would add £0 to the value of the next tv deal. 

With a guarantee of 2 French clubs for the next x number of years, we are in a position where we can negotiate a French tv deal and add to the Super League tv money pot. 

[Just Browny]

I feel like those advocating straight P&R with no exceptions aren't thinking enough about the families of Ryan Brierley, Adam Sidlow, Joe Mellor etc and how disruptive it must be to have to move house to join a new promoted club every year.

[binosh]

7 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Because it doesn’t matter if we have 10 British teams or 12 British teams in Super League, the sky tv deal will have the same value, replacing Catalans and Toulouse with 2 Championship teams would add £0 to the value of the next tv deal. 

With a guarantee of 2 French clubs for the next x number of years, we are in a position where we can negotiate a French tv deal and add to the Super League tv money pot. 

Unless I’ve missed it how do we know the Sky deal will be the same no matter how many English teams? Sky have clearly told us to go away and do something different not just add french teams surely?

[binosh]

33 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Because that is backwards.  There will only be a tv in France when French TV and sponsors can guarantee a minimum viable product,  which is 2 french teams in SL every season. 

Incorrect. There will only be a TV deal when somebody in France grabs hold of the Elite 1 and makes it credible enough for the french to be interested in a sport played in their country, very similar to how we need to get roots down, funding, backers and a vision in places like York, Newcastle, London & Wales.

[Damien]

15 minutes ago, binosh said:

Unless I’ve missed it how do we know the Sky deal will be the same no matter how many English teams? Sky have clearly told us to go away and do something different not just add french teams surely?

At various times we've had 13 English teams and 11 English teams, indeed the TV deal actually went up when we had 11. We have also had 10 English teams and there was certainly no public criticism from Sky or concern shown. Based on the last couple of decades I think its fair to say that Sky arent too concerned if it is 10 or 12 as long as the product on display is of a high enough standard.

[Dave T]

We do need to make sure we don't become obsessed with one metric. 

If we end up with a £5m French deal that is great, but if we take the eye off the ball we could end up with 8 British top flight teams versus 16 25 years ago, and a 2nd and 3rd tier with no funding putting the clubs below that top 8 in a really weak position. 

That may or may not be a good thing, but we can't sleepwalk into that. 

Development of overseas nations should have an outcome that sees a stronger UK game. If we weaken the English game, that is out and out failure. 

[Sports Prophet]

@Harry Stottle, no need to get your knickers all knotted, you can still go to your games I expect you protested Catalans being ringfenced in SL at the beginning by not attending their fixtures.

The justification surrounding the ringfencing and allowing a maximum of 10 English SL clubs has already been made. You have raised the obvious downsides to which had all entered my mind before I went on to suggest the idea anyway. Guess what… despite those concerns, I still think it’s a good idea.

You can consider the suggestion as abhorrent as you like and throw around any other hyperbole of concern you have against the idea, but, it’s not going to stop the idea from having serious merits.

[binosh]

Toulouse just snapped up another 21 year old Englishman? Are there no 21 year old french lads worth a go?

[PECETTO]

26 minutes ago, binosh said:

Toulouse just snapped up another 21 year old Englishman? Are there no 21 year old french lads worth a go?

For the reserve team, and in the formation center. 

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

@Harry Stottle, no need to get your knickers all knotted, you can still go to your games I expect you protested Catalans being ringfenced in SL at the beginning by not attending their fixtures.

The justification surrounding the ringfencing and allowing a maximum of 10 English SL clubs has already been made. You have raised the obvious downsides to which had all entered my mind before I went on to suggest the idea anyway. Guess what… despite those concerns, I still think it’s a good idea.

You can consider the suggestion as abhorrent as you like and throw around any other hyperbole of concern you have against the idea, but, it’s not going to stop the idea from having serious merits.

Knickers pressed and perfectly flat SP,

I have protested since Huddersfield were relegation exempt and will continue to do so whoever the club is, it is not on my part a witch hunt against the French clubs it is against the system you suggest the rules should be the same pertaining to all clubs competing for the same prize at the top or fighting jeopardy at the bottom.

 Anyways, I can take it from you guy's on here who Champion ringfencing, my real concern would be if those who make the decisions thought likewise, somehow I doubt that they will even if you insist it has serious merits.

[Harry Stottle]

21 minutes ago, PECETTO said:

For the reserve team, and in the formation center. 

So why no 21 year old French Lads for the same respect?

[Tabby]

39 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

So why no 21 year old French Lads for the same respect?

Simply because status in SL is paramount. 

[Lowdesert]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

So why no 21 year old French Lads for the same respect?

He’s played for London broncos, Scholars and Sheffield, now going to TO Elite 1 side.  All the English clubs have had a chance to sign him.

[The Daddy]

Documentary in French 

https://video.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/rugby-a-xiii/2021/to-the-top-decouvrez-les-coulisses-d-une-finale-historique-pour-le-toulouse-olympique-xiii_vid1560796/video.shtml?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[PECETTO]

2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

So why no 21 year old French Lads for the same respect?

There are 18 french players under 21 in the formation center…. 

[binosh]

47 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

So if you want to keep p and r you need to stop whinging about this. 

Makes zero sense.

The question isn’t about P&R it’s about french teams joining a British competition to expand the wider game of RL in Europe but bringing absolutely zero to the comp other than being “cosmopolitan” and a “nice away trip”

French RL needs to stop being such a shambles and start to think of ideas on how to grow the game in their country, find funding, improve standards and then add value to SL by furthering investment and growing stronger clubs, because, if they aren’t going to do that we might aswell just chuck the money back at Bradford and have some bumper crowds and a load of decent kids coming through.

[Sports Prophet]

You have it all wrong @binosh, you shouldn’t be thinking that the French are joining an English competition. You should be thinking that the SL has ambition to grow into a European competition.

[binosh]

2 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

You have it all wrong @binosh, you shouldn’t be thinking that the French are joining an English competition. You should be thinking that the SL has ambition to grow into a European competition.

Rugby Union has a successful European Comp without chucking Toulon into the premiership? Why can’t France have a strong domestic comp with a European league?

[Hello]

36 minutes ago, binosh said:

Makes zero sense.

The question isn’t about P&R it’s about french teams joining a British competition to expand the wider game of RL in Europe but bringing absolutely zero to the comp other than being “cosmopolitan” and a “nice away trip”

French RL needs to stop being such a shambles and start to think of ideas on how to grow the game in their country, find funding, improve standards and then add value to SL by furthering investment and growing stronger clubs, because, if they aren’t going to do that we might aswell just chuck the money back at Bradford and have some bumper crowds and a load of decent kids coming through.

I think that you will find that they already have found ideas on how to grow the game in their country. It's called getting 9000 fans in (better than half of SL English teams manage)  to watch a second tier team become the second team from their country reach the top League with all the increased attention that this will bring to the sport in said country, particularly with the forthcoming derby. It doesn't take a genius to see that this increase in interest will produce more youngsters trying out the game in France. As for your comments about finding funding and investment, are you joking?  Check out the increased funding and sponsorship from various sources at Toulouse in recent years. 

[Sports Prophet]

5 hours ago, binosh said:

Rugby Union has a successful European Comp without chucking Toulon into the premiership? Why can’t France have a strong domestic comp with a European league?

Because they don’t. Simple. That would be like expecting Italy to have as strong a domestic RU comp as England.

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

7 hours ago, binosh said:

Rugby Union has a successful European Comp without chucking Toulon into the premiership? Why can’t France have a strong domestic comp with a European league?

Well the Vichy government banned Rugby League in France, so after WW2 it did not exist in the country, the game had to start from absolutely nothing from then.

If we just wait for Elite 1 to become a fully professional league we’ll be waiting forever.

Rugby Union also has the now named United Rugby Championship with teams from Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Italy and South Africa. England and France are actually outliers in RU having a domestic league with teams from a single nation, both the Northern and Southern Hemisphere have a multi-nation league which most successful International countries play in and the European Cup is a massive money making competition.

[LongbridgeH]

8 hours ago, binosh said:

Rugby Union has a successful European Comp without chucking Toulon into the premiership? Why can’t France have a strong domestic comp with a European league?

The same reasoning the full time Welsh teams playing in the English Football League and why multiple sports across Europe have joint leagues

[Harry Stottle]

44 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Well the Vichy government banned Rugby League in France, so after WW2 it did not exist in the country, the game had to start from absolutely nothing from then.

If we just wait for Elite 1 to become a fully professional league we’ll be waiting forever.

Rugby Union also has the now named United Rugby Championship with teams from Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Italy and South Africa. England and France are actually outliers in RU having a domestic league with teams from a single nation, both the Northern and Southern Hemisphere have a multi-nation league which most successful International countries play in and the European Cup is a massive money making competition.

Kevin dear heart, Rugby League in France kicked on after WW2, they had as strong an International team as any country playing the game, even defeating Australia and attracting crowds of over 60,000 on the sub-continent, it was bad management that allowed the game to decline in France in the following decades. 

So why is it that we will be waiting for ever for the domestic professional game in France to improve far beyond what they have now, the seed has been sown with 2 teams playing in the British Competition.