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Bristol All Golds to Return to Pro Ranks


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8 hours ago, OriginalMrC said:

Hmmm not that I want to be that guy that looks like I'm against ambition but I would take statements like this with a pinch of salt. Worcester don't have an academy, they had a few youngsters who played a few games. They did quite well but they haven't kept it going. Their link up with the local college has also had a poor take up.

As for the first team they only played half a season before pulling out of the league. Before that they were getting hammered every week. They've also alienated a number of players by announcing they are going semi pro. Clubs with ambition need to build from the bottom up and grow before they can start paying players. I don't know how much money they have but I can't see how this is in any way sustainable. 

For their recent open day only a handful of players turned up and I heard they were ringing up last season players to come to the trials many of who refused and the ex pro coach is not returning until they have players training.

They are also on their 4th different name I think.

Both All Golds and Worcester failed to finish the season this year but are going semi pro next time. Both have grand designs to build something big but despite the great media reports they keep coming out with they have no foundations. They could join together and probably couldn't put out a team    

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11 hours ago, OriginalMrC said:

They are not rejoining League 1. Both them and Worcester have declared themselves semi pro despite not even finishing their seasons last year. I'm not even sure what the rules are about paying players in amateur leagues? Either way it surely is a huge waste of money 

Most community leagues are open now. Why you’d pay anybody on those leagues is another debate

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1 hour ago, Impartial Observer said:

For their recent open day only a handful of players turned up and I heard they were ringing up last season players to come to the trials many of who refused and the ex pro coach is not returning until they have players training.

They are also on their 4th different name I think.

Both All Golds and Worcester failed to finish the season this year but are going semi pro next time. Both have grand designs to build something big but despite the great media reports they keep coming out with they have no foundations. They could join together and probably couldn't put out a team    

My understanding exactly. In addition to this they've also told players who don't get a contract with they could play for the newly formed Hereford team that is an hours drive away! They have a lot to learn about keeping players happy and getting a team on the pitch 

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There’s a fair few disparaging comments here, and not many positive ones. Ok I accept neither team finished last season but if they want to pay players a few quid and it helps them then so what, nobody would bat an eyelid if a tenth tier football or cricket team were paying players £50-100 a game. What we have here are two teams who are trying to get RL off the ground in new areas, I hope it goes well for them. 

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3 minutes ago, Saint 1 said:

Often with stuff like this it's a false economy though. If they pay players and for example get a couple from Bath, a couple from a relaunched Bristol Sonics, a few from Wales, have they really strengthened the game? Or have they strengthened their team at the expense of the game cause they now have nobody to play against?

Maybe, but it’s up to them to work that out? 

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5 minutes ago, Eddie said:

There’s a fair few disparaging comments here, and not many positive ones. Ok I accept neither team finished last season but if they want to pay players a few quid and it helps them then so what, nobody would bat an eyelid if a tenth tier football or cricket team were paying players £50-100 a game. What we have here are two teams who are trying to get RL off the ground in new areas, I hope it goes well for them. 

We can only judge on what we see.

For my part, I see a club that puts out press releases of varying levels of intelligibility, that has never once lived up to any of its promises, and has a track record of failure.

If it turns any of that round, I'll be along to cheer. In the meantime, I have a fear that antics such as this wind up doing more damage to the game than just having some merit clubs doing their thing and building upwards.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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10 minutes ago, Eddie said:

There’s a fair few disparaging comments here, and not many positive ones. Ok I accept neither team finished last season but if they want to pay players a few quid and it helps them then so what, nobody would bat an eyelid if a tenth tier football or cricket team were paying players £50-100 a game. What we have here are two teams who are trying to get RL off the ground in new areas, I hope it goes well for them. 

Trouble is I heard it was substantially more than £100 and they still couldn't people to come along so they were setting up another trial in the North West to try to get more players    

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41 minutes ago, Eddie said:

There’s a fair few disparaging comments here, and not many positive ones. Ok I accept neither team finished last season but if they want to pay players a few quid and it helps them then so what, nobody would bat an eyelid if a tenth tier football or cricket team were paying players £50-100 a game. What we have here are two teams who are trying to get RL off the ground in new areas, I hope it goes well for them. 

Because it damages the game if its not done right. It upsets local players who now can't get a game. It upsets other teams who might lose players to them and also will be playing against semi pro players from up north. It means clubs trying to grow organically from the bottom up are not in a level playing field. 

It also damages the reputation of the game when clubs talk big and never deliver. Sponsors get cold feet, the press doesn't take the sport seriously etc. In a highly competitive sporting environment reputation is everything. Sorry but I could set up a club tomorrow and send out a load of grand statements and people would lap it up. Clubs need to earn respect, not tell everyone how great they are and not deliver. 

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13 minutes ago, OriginalMrC said:

Because it damages the game if its not done right. It upsets local players who now can't get a game. It upsets other teams who might lose players to them and also will be playing against semi pro players from up north. It means clubs trying to grow organically from the bottom up are not in a level playing field. 

It also damages the reputation of the game when clubs talk big and never deliver. Sponsors get cold feet, the press doesn't take the sport seriously etc. In a highly competitive sporting environment reputation is everything. Sorry but I could set up a club tomorrow and send out a load of grand statements and people would lap it up. Clubs need to earn respect, not tell everyone how great they are and not deliver. 

Fair enough Mr C, understood. 

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3 hours ago, Impartial Observer said:

Just seen another club on FB called Stoke Staffies who I have never heard of are bring a coach over from Aus.  I think I need to get to know some of these people who are running the clubs as they seem to need to get rid of some cash. 

And here they are: https://everythingrugbyleague.com/dog-in-the-fight-staffies-born-with-an-aussie-pedigree/

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Why can't clubs with the exception of Coventry in League 1, be more realistic there are some serious changes coming down the line very soon. I think some will survive some will either join the amateur ranks or disappear. As for Golds paying wages in my day it was called boot money and petrol money. 

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6 hours ago, Rach said:

 

When the club was in L1 the operating model seemed to be attracting players frombut you only had to look in the stand to see where the issue was , apart from family and friends the general support for the Club in the area was one man and his dog and was never sustainable.



 

I went twice and even the dog didn't turn up.

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I suspect that if these clubs want to pay their players they will have to join League 1 ( Tier 3 ). The Operational rules for Tier 1-3 are comprehensive when it comes to player status and the paperwork needed. Otherwise  yes it is just 'Boot ' money - not the picture I suspect they want to present.

Tier 4 -6 Operational rules do not cater for contracted players and were never envisaged to do so. The game has become ' open ' in the sense that it is available to all - dual registration ( for all but the NCL ) and League 1  clubs for instance being able I believe to register up to !0 amateurs.

If they want to pay their players  above board  all sorts of implications arise - tax  and NI, employee protection and rights , maybe pensions etc. Good job that the All Golds directors are a  retired lawyer and an accountant  - even though one of the rugby  companies is dormant and the other seems to be in debt.

They will need RFL approval whether they re-join Tier 3 or seek to play as semi pro  in the  tier 4 Southern Conference. I can only assume these guys have been having such conversations prior to the issuing of their Press Release.........

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IIRC All Golds chose to leave L1 on the basis of a merger with Bristol and the creation of a new club (in L1) which of course never happened. I admire the commitment to the sport but wonder whether it wouldn't be better trying to create a semi-pro club in the area like All Golds were but using a different model than relying on uni students and probably based in Bristol where you'd think you'd be able to attract a couple of hundred paying punters.

 

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2 minutes ago, EssexRL said:

IIRC All Golds chose to leave L1 on the basis of a merger with Bristol ...

 

It was a merger between themselves and Oxford to create 'Bristol' with a commitment to play in 2019.

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/bristol-born-oxford-gloucestershire-golds-merge/

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Ex Oxford fan here. It was basically a new club wrapped up as a merger to make the disappearance of two clubs less embarrassing. Not every director from Oxford was on board. No idea about Old Golds.

They were looking into training bases, had a 2018 coach lined up etc then it was decided it was too rushed and they would enter in 2019. One key figure behind the scenes pulled out during the year out, to focus on another club, and that was the end of the club that never was.

 

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40 minutes ago, Ivarr the Boneless said:

Ex Oxford fan here. It was basically a new club wrapped up as a merger to make the disappearance of two clubs less embarrassing. Not every director from Oxford was on board. No idea about Old Golds.

They were looking into training bases, had a 2018 coach lined up etc then it was decided it was too rushed and they would enter in 2019. One key figure behind the scenes pulled out during the year out, to focus on another club, and that was the end of the club that never was.

 

I'd heard it was a particular director from All Golds who was keen on the merger and a move to Bristol but that Oxfords directors were never really on board. Its a real shame about Oxford I have to say, there was some really good people as part of the set up there 

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21 hours ago, Eddie said:

Here is Worcester’s statement https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1079964289478650&id=140450823430006&m_entstream_source=timeline

I think they have an academy too, the people running the club certainly mean business, good luck to them. 

Ok, here goes…

I was involved with Worcester Jaguars over the last 4 years or so. At the start I was head coach, then player coach, then assistant player coach, back to head coach for a bit and then playing.

I left at the end of last season due to the ‘semi-pro’ plans as I majorly disagreed with this move after a half-baked season in West of England and having forfeited one or two games due to lack of players. As alluded to earlier, throwing money at this issue won’t solve it.

The academy is OK, it’s based at a good school, with good facilities but there’s only about 7-10 members of it. When I first got involved, the academy had a solid 15-20 player squad and felt promising, only 4/5 of those players are still ‘involved’ in the first team squad .

Believe it or not the club has plans to tell players they’re unsuccessful on trialling and thus not offer a contract - they plan to launch a feeder team but you’ll see why in the next paragraph why this will be tricky to run and maintain.

Jags held a trial recently, with only 3 prospective newbies rocking up and 9/10 existing first teamers. A dozen or so didn’t attend due to union commitments and this was frowned upon as league wasn’t ‘first choice’ - I understand the leadership’s intentions there but the sentiment is massively misguided, you can’t tell amateur players in a union stronghold what they should be doing when a club is in its sincere infancy. Suffice to say, many of these players have well and truly gone of rugby league. Sad.

The club has now lost John Fieldhouse as first team coach and many players won’t return if a certain person continues to coach in his absence. Again, a bitter taste has been left here through poor coaching, management and direction.

In my most humble opinion, which I placed at the forefront of a players’ survey all Jags squad completed at end of last season, they would be best served developing the South’s equivalent of a Stanningley, Ince Rose Bridge, Heworth… whatever. A good solid community club that knows its place in developing players and structures that strengthen Cov Bears and thus improving RL in the Midlands. 
 

I wish Jags every success and I can’t fault ambition but such ambition been attempted so early will not help the retention of good league people like myself and a few others, who have had no choice to step aside with their values and morals intact. 
 

The club have a grand total of 6 players attending junior sessions. Yet here they are exploring semi-professionalism with a multi-scale wage offering after 7 gamesc 2 forfeits and 1 win.

Happy to answer more via direct message 

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