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Deja Vu - What's Old is New Again


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With all the talk about rationalising the game down to 10 teams and how the game will be for all the other clubs in the future it is interesting to listen to this debate from 1995 about the incoming Super League and how it was going to save rugby league. Yet here we are again.

 

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Eerily similar conversations.

What strikes me about this debate - it's happening in a public forum with the stakeholders being listened to by the CEO of the RFL himself as the decision making is taking place.

How very modern and transparent... One can only but wish.

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19 minutes ago, tiffers said:

Eerily similar conversations.

You could easily substitute 1995 with 2021 and the debate is the same.

I believe News Corp or whatever you want to call them will be the private equity partner but this time they will be smarter and sneakier just as they have got what they wanted in Australia with Vlandys.

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20 minutes ago, rlno1 said:

You could easily substitute 1995 with 2021 and the debate is the same.

I believe News Corp or whatever you want to call them will be the private equity partner but this time they will be smarter and sneakier just as they have got what they wanted in Australia with Vlandys.

Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest bit!

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3 hours ago, rlno1 said:

With all the talk about rationalising the game down to 10 teams and how the game will be for all the other clubs in the future it is interesting to listen to this debate from 1995 about the incoming Super League and how it was going to save rugby league. Yet here we are again.

 

Given that rugby league instituted none of the plans from the time and invested £0 in sustainable development then it's not surprising that 25 years on the same arguments about the same issues come around.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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16 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Given that rugby league instituted none of the plans from the time and invested £0 in sustainable development then it's not surprising that 25 years on the same arguments about the same issues come around.

Agreed. Why do clubs keep pouring money into players pockets rather then  purchasing assets that can provide revenue for them.

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20 minutes ago, tiffers said:

Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest bit!

If you read Shane Richardson's plan for the future of English RL and listen to seperate recent podcast interviews with Rimmer and Johnson and everything they say matches what Richardson wrote.

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35 minutes ago, rlno1 said:

Agreed. Why do clubs keep pouring money into players pockets rather then  purchasing assets that can provide revenue for them.

Ummmm. Tough one. Maybe to win games?

Four legs good - two legs bad

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3 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

At some point fans will realise we are not downscaling to 10 but upscaling to 20

At some point, "whole game solution" fans will realise that both numbers are a lot smaller than the 30+ clubs we have in the system now.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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9 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:

At some point fans will realise we are not downscaling to 10 but upscaling to 20

Maurice Lyndsay "36 clubs do not fit into 14" stated several times, referencing the massive increase in income.

Yet now we have the RFL stating "12 clubs fit into 20" with decreasing levels of income... work that one out...

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1 hour ago, rlno1 said:

Agreed. Why do clubs keep pouring money into players pockets rather then  purchasing assets that can provide revenue for them.

"pouring money" is hyperbolic. Rugby league players are the worst rewarded of the mainstream full time sports, and if we cut it back further we won't be able to call ourselves a professional sport. Things would dissolve very quickly indeed if rugby league couldn't offer viable career pathways to aspiring players, and we're only barely doing that as it is. 

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2 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

"pouring money" is hyperbolic. Rugby league players are the worst rewarded of the mainstream full time sports, and if we cut it back further we won't be able to call ourselves a professional sport. Things would dissolve very quickly indeed if rugby league couldn't offer viable career pathways to aspiring players, and we're only barely doing that as it is. 

Agree with this. Rugby league players at the highest level get paid peanuts. It might be a lot relative to the average wage in their immediate locality but it's low compared to what they could earn if they'd chosen literally any other professional sport.

The clubs will pay players to win games because that's what they're there to do. I don't like their self-interest but it would be madness to expect them to behave any other way. The failure of rugby league is down to a continued inability to create anything that isn't dependent on those same self interested clubs.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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11 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

At some point, "whole game solution" fans will realise that both numbers are a lot smaller than the 30+ clubs we have in the system now.

They would be outside the 20 FT clubs - nobody is getting rid of the likes of Oldham, Keighley etc, indeed the hope must be that they build to become FT and expand the 20. We must offer something that Broadcasters want to pay the right money to show, sponsors wish to be associated with, fans want to pay to watch, Multi Millionaires want to be involved with and ultimately creates a player pool capable of winning a World Cup.

Less than a decade ago clubs in what is today called the Championship got £50/60k central funding.

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1 hour ago, Toby Chopra said:

"pouring money" is hyperbolic. Rugby league players are the worst rewarded of the mainstream full time sports, and if we cut it back further we won't be able to call ourselves a professional sport. Things would dissolve very quickly indeed if rugby league couldn't offer viable career pathways to aspiring players, and we're only barely doing that as it is. 

I meant it as being relative to what the game earns.

By all means pay players reasonably but also some long term planning to increase revenue when that happens wvwryone wins.

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Speaking as an Oldham fan and with hindsight, instead of paying through the nose for 3rd rate Australian players, we should have pumped money into watersheddings. Rebuilt the stadium. If we'd have been relegated, then at least we would have had a ground. Bear in mind we were relegated after 2  seasons anyway, and the old club went bust.  And maybe now we would be in a far better position. 

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20 hours ago, sweaty craiq said:

They would be outside the 20 FT clubs - nobody is getting rid of the likes of Oldham, Keighley etc, indeed the hope must be that they build to become FT and expand the 20. 

Keighley... FT..... 1995 ....???

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2 hours ago, Rach said:

Keighley... FT..... 1995 ....???

The Bulls Cougars story is the same string but opposite ends. Maybe a cashed up Cougars could go FT again, that’s what’s great about 2x10 - you expand when able ie 10 and 12, 2x12 etc Let’s create an ambitious story to sell, let’s shout from the rooftops we are the dominate code in the North, let’s get every Northerner saying “is that RL when you said rugby?”

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9 hours ago, sweaty craiq said:

The Bulls Cougars story is the same string but opposite ends. Maybe a cashed up Cougars could go FT again, that’s what’s great about 2x10 - you expand when able ie 10 and 12, 2x12 etc Let’s create an ambitious story to sell, let’s shout from the rooftops we are the dominate code in the North, let’s get every Northerner saying “is that RL when you said rugby. 

I sort of get your reasoning to a point if it wasn't the RFL that we were talking about.. Keighley massively smashed the guidelines that the RFL set in 95 ..but got screwed..Similarly if Fev had plastered Toulouse onto the back of next week a few weeks ago what would have become the outcome? I'm no Luddite but Coventry have busted every RFL attempt to reduce their impact ( loss of sky try funding, Midlands academy funding withdrawal et etc ) but have still come out battling ... The whole structure is bent simple as x

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On 22/10/2021 at 10:21, gingerjon said:

Given that rugby league instituted none of the plans from the time and invested £0 in sustainable development then it's not surprising that 25 years on the same arguments about the same issues come around.

Remind me what were those plans?

As Rach correctly states the sport is rigged. I hope that was not the plan.

Judging from that video, couple of points. It reminds me why I have an opinion about Lindsay that is not worth repeating, how come John Wilkinson seemed so favourable to mergers mate and why does Damian Johnson look younger now than he did in Keighley?

Edited by idrewthehaggis
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On 22/10/2021 at 10:21, gingerjon said:

Given that rugby league instituted none of the plans from the time and invested £0 in sustainable development then it's not surprising that 25 years on the same arguments about the same issues come around.

The money went in in a bidding war for players when the split occurred in Australia. If that hadn't happened the game in this country could have moved on enormously. Clubs were left with a choice, lose top players, match the Aussies to keep them or spend the money on infrastructure but have no team of worth. Control of what happened to the money was lost once it became apparent that we would be asset stripped by the Aussies desperate for players.

 

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