Birmingham

[Tubby]

23 minutes ago, The Daddy said:

Don't think discussion forums are for you. Stick to Rugby League Banter on Facebook or something 

Thanks for your patronising advice. I’m afraid I’m not on social media so you’re stuck with me. 
 

As I pointed out at the beginning of my post, I fully appreciate that fora are for discussions, I apologise for having an opposing view to yours, perhaps this isn’t the place for you. 
 

I’m not sure what part of my post came across to you as ‘banter’, I was simply making a point. I read this forum regularly, but generally refrain from commenting as I expect the kind of response you kindly provided. 
 

I merely believe that the regular threads demanding/desiring new clubs in non-RL areas and going on to predict the huge crowds (based on huge populations) and huge sponsorship deals are delusional. 
 

if your wish is to fantasise about such enormous & successful expansion, don’t let me stop you making your point. I just disagree is all. 

[OriginalMrC]

3 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

They put a tidy sum of money over several years evertything in place and the rfl said '500,000' bond please.  After they gave license to Ottawa. 

So if the route was closed and seemingly no chance to develop what would have been the point continuing?

No a mea culpa is in order and get Rangers in the pyramid.  Especially since the RFL is basing themselves at the same campus. 

I've heard this story many times. This is the same rule that applied to other clubs, Manchester weren't singled out. The bond is also not actual money to be paid, just needs to be underwritten. 

[Big Picture]

5 hours ago, iffleyox said:

Being from there, it never ceases to amaze me how little the rest of the country knows about the West Midlands.

we don’t even get the lazy, casual northern or southern stereotypes. 
 

Birmingham doesn’t ‘need’ an RL club. Add up West Brom, Blues, Villa, Warwickshire CCC. Then from RU off the top of my head, Moseley, Bees, Salts, Camp Hill, Bournville, Aston, Handsworth, FWOE, Edwardian FC, Barbarians, Birmingham CS, Harborne, Veseyans, Yardleians (and that list is the tip of the iceberg). 
 

there isn’t a well of people sitting at home waiting for RL to happen.

There wasn't in Toronto either, until the Wolfpack created one by offering Torontonians something unique and different from other sports' offerings: intercontinental transatlantic play.

If Birmingham is like the way various posters have characterized the rest of non-RL-heartland Britain, most Brummies don't know that two versions of rugby exist and most of the remainder who do have a negative view of RL because they perceive it as a small time regional sport with limited appeal.  Any effort to establish pro RL there consequently requires a way to break through the wall comprised of lack of awareness, indifference and opposition to the game in order to attract a following and succeed.

I'll repeat here what I've said elsewhere: a franchised multinational, intercontinental and transatlantic league with teams in a blend of familiar and exotic cities is the one possible way to do that.  More than likely no one would believe such a thing to be possible for "Rugby League" in view of how the game is apparently perceived by other Brits, so such a league would probably have to rename the sport and call it something else altogether to overcome that perception.

[Eddie]

5 hours ago, Just Browny said:

I got into the Manchester hype like many others, but didn't the whole operation pack up about five minutes after the RFL knocked them back? Hardly showed up the decision as wrong.

What was the point of them carrying on after they’d been knocked back? No point throwing good money after bad. 

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, Eddie said:

What was the point of them carrying on after they’d been knocked back? No point throwing good money after bad. 

If they were truly all about RL they’d carry on with local development they promised as a community outfit. They came across as just wanting to cash in on the 70k or so per season from the RFL. They didn’t want to put the hard work in

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

We have/recently had a presence in 7 of the 20 most populous cities in the UK......and 21 of the top 100

[Toby Chopra]

35 minutes ago, Spidey said:

If they were truly all about RL they’d carry on with local development they promised as a community outfit. They came across as just wanting to cash in on the 70k or so per season from the RFL. They didn’t want to put the hard work in

Sorry, but you're setting them a standard that many existing clubs would fail. The Rangers would have put far more in financially than they were taking out, and they were offering to set up a club in a major English city and promote rugby league in a good stadium. That shows them as all about rugby league in my book, compared with some of the other teams in the locality. 

They were knocked back because some barely solvent local shell clubs were terrified of the competition.

All that's happened since then is that those basket case clubs have got even weaker with nothing to show for it. 

If by some miracle another set of investors offers to set up L1 a team in Manchester we should bite their arm off. 

[Eddie]

50 minutes ago, Spidey said:

If they were truly all about RL they’d carry on with local development they promised as a community outfit. They came across as just wanting to cash in on the 70k or so per season from the RFL. They didn’t want to put the hard work in

Nonsense, their plan was for a semi pro club and related revenue, supporting the community side. Without the former the latter couldn’t happen. 

[Big Picture]

27 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

We have/recently had a presence in 7 of the 20 most populous cities in the UK......and 21 of the top 100

Was that presence a good presence (i.e. one appealing/inspiring/enticing etc. to the public) though?

[OriginalMrC]

As others ha e said here, Coventry considers itself a Midlands club. Without wanting to sound too cryptic all I'll say is watch this space. 

[newbe]

20 minutes ago, OriginalMrC said:

As others ha e said here, Coventry considers itself a Midlands club. Without wanting to sound too cryptic all I'll say is watch this space. 

Birmingham Bears !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[The Daddy]

27 minutes ago, OriginalMrC said:

As others ha e said here, Coventry considers itself a Midlands club. Without wanting to sound too cryptic all I'll say is watch this space. 

Would a West Midlands derby benefit Coventry?

[Grand Est]

On 23/10/2021 at 01:56, The Daddy said:

Sad news that the plug has been pulled on Ottawa. The upside is that there's now an opportunity to invest in a new RL area and club in the UK.

"upside"

I'd love to know the details of this "investment". What sort of return might we expect?

[gingerjon]

On 23/10/2021 at 00:56, The Daddy said:

Sad news that the plug has been pulled on Ottawa. The upside is that there's now an opportunity to invest in a new RL area and club in the UK. 

The reality is there is no opportunity. The claim from the chancers is that they will have a team up and running for the 2022 season.

The season that starts in about three months.

They don't exist. There is virtually no chance they will ever exist.

But I'm sure they can go on Chasing Roos and sell some shirts.

[OriginalMrC]

4 hours ago, gingerjon said:

The reality is there is no opportunity. The claim from the chancers is that they will have a team up and running for the 2022 season.

The season that starts in about three months.

They don't exist. There is virtually no chance they will ever exist.

But I'm sure they can go on Chasing Roos and sell some shirts.

I was called daft for suggesting they won't have a new team up and running in a new area in 3 months. If they do have a team up and running for 2022, and it is doubtful, they'll base themselves in an existing RL city for the year. 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

On 23/10/2021 at 11:41, Tubby said:

Delusional…abstract nonsense. I know it’s a forum and discussion is the point, but the absolute abject fantasy spouted by some is laughable. 
 

Geographical expansion is something we should all aspire to, but the idea that we can just plant a team in a non-rl area and expect it to flourish is embarrassingly naive. RL is, unfortunately a very minor sport in Europe in northern England and to a much lesser extent, south-western France. To read some of the fantastical ideas of where we should conquer next, you’d think vastly wealthy sport-lovers were begging us to let them in. It’s a sad fact, they’re not. I have no answers because, unfortunately, I don’t believe there are any. 
 

Aspiration is a fine thing, but that’s all it is. We’ll be having the same delusional discussions in 20 years time (if league as we know it still exists) and my opinion is that we’ll be no further on. 
 

yes, I’m a bit pessimistic. 

I agree parts can seem delusional however one word - 'Storm'

There was no League at all in Melbourne and it is now a dominant team giving a presence where there was one 

It took massive investment sure but it wouldn't take anywhere near the same amount to get a decent Championship club up and running and winning in say Birmingham. 

To say it's fantastical is more than pessimistic it is just wrong 

Just need some substantial investment 

[langpark]

Did Birmingham Jaguars ever get off the ground?

[bowes]

On 23/10/2021 at 12:56, Rowan said:

Just as a bit of light relief I dug out a match day programme of Manchester Knights from July 20, 2000. It was for an RL Conference Match (eventually to become National League Three) against Rotherham Giants.  At the time Birmingham Bulldogs with 10 wins from 11 games were top of the Western Division and the Composite Table.  The Competition also included Hemel, St. Albans, Ipswich, Coventry, Leicester, Wolverhampton, Chester, Nottingham, Derby, North, South and West London, St. Albans - a total of 24 clubs in all.  Don't know how many (if any other than Hemel and Coventry still exist but it was backed by the RFL at the time.

Northern Division:

Manchester Knights- no longer exist

Crewe Wolves- no longer exist

Chester Wolves- no longer exist

Rotherham Giants- no longer exist

Derby City- still exist

Nottingham Outlaws- still exist

Western Division:

Birmingham Bulldogs- still exist

Coventry Bears- still exist

Gloucestershire Warriors- no longer exist

Leicester Phoenix- no longer exist

Worcestershire Saints- no longer exist

Wolverhampton Wizards- no longer exist

Eastern Division:

Bedford Swifts- no longer exist

Cambridge Eagles- no longer exist

Hemel Stags- still exist

Ipswich Rhinos- still exist but are now called Eastern Rhinos

South Norfolk Saints- no longer exist

St Albans Centurions- still exist

Southern Division:

Crawley Jets- no longer exist

Kingston Warriors- still exist but are now called Elmbridge Eagles

North London Skolars- still exist but are now called London Skolars

Oxford Cavaliers- still exist 

South London Storm- merged with West London Sharks to form London Chargers

West London Sharks- merged with South London Storm to form London Chargers

 

10 out of the 24 still exist and 2 of the others have merged to form a still existing club. 

 

[Guest]

I seem to remember the Crawley Jets being quite dominant in the early days? 

Shame to see so many of those fall by the wayside.

[BJW]

4 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

I seem to remember the Crawley Jets being quite dominant in the early days? 

Shame to see so many of those fall by the wayside.

They were but was essentially a team playing out of a ra ra club which had no interests in RL long term. IIRC personnel changes on both sides saw a parting of the ways.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, BJW said:

They were but was essentially a team playing out of a ra ra club which had no interests in RL long term. IIRC personnel changes on both sides saw a parting of the ways.

Thanks, I knew it was from a RU club but I seem to remember the guy behind them was from Dewsbury? Or was it Widnes?  Steve something....Riley? 

[Rach]

50 minutes ago, bowes said:

Northern Division:

Manchester Knights- no longer exist

Crewe Wolves- no longer exist

Chester Wolves- no longer exist

Rotherham Giants- no longer exist

Derby City- still exist

Nottingham Outlaws- still exist

Western Division:

Birmingham Bulldogs- still exist

Coventry Bears- still exist

Gloucestershire Warriors- no longer exist

Leicester Phoenix- no longer exist

Worcestershire Saints- no longer exist

Wolverhampton Wizards- no longer exist

Eastern Division:

Bedford Swifts- no longer exist

Cambridge Eagles- no longer exist

Hemel Stags- still exist

Ipswich Rhinos- still exist but are now called Eastern Rhinos

South Norfolk Saints- no longer exist

St Albans Centurions- still exist

Southern Division:

Crawley Jets- no longer exist

Kingston Warriors- still exist but are now called Elmbridge Eagles

North London Skolars- still exist but are now called London Skolars

Oxford Cavaliers- still exist 

South London Storm- merged with West London Sharks to form London Chargers

West London Sharks- merged with South London Storm to form London Chargers

 

10 out of the 24 still exist and 2 of the others have merged to form a still existing club. 

 

Still a few of those locations have teams if not the original clubs on the list

Bedford Tigers .Worcester Jaguars  Chester Gladiators And the All Golds

If you add those to the list its probably well over 2/3rds that are still playing rugby league in some form which I dont think is bad at all

[OriginalMrC]

1 hour ago, langpark said:

Did Birmingham Jaguars ever get off the ground?

Apart from being a figment of someone's imagination, no. 

[JonM]

39 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Thanks, I knew it was from a RU club but I seem to remember the guy behind them was from Dewsbury? Or was it Widnes?  Steve something....Riley? 

Mark Richardson, their chairman, was from Dewsbury. Steve O'Reilly was their scrum half, ex of Widnes.

[langpark]

1 minute ago, OriginalMrC said:

Apart from being a figment of someone's imagination, no. 

How dare you! They are part of the prestigious euro 13 competition! An organisation that in no way resembles the description you just gave the Jaguars.