Sat 23rd Oct: Intl: France v England KO 2.30pm (TV)

[Harry Stottle]

3 hours ago, Mr Frisky said:

Can you not see how your comment - "Simple, Tonga have not got a chance of beating Australia again"

Is a bit silly?  - Not a chance..... again

I honestly don't think Tonga will or any other team for that matter, especially not in the playing lifetime of the player's that represent Australia today, obviously my opinion but I think this present Australian team can be as good as any that has gone before it, big ask I know but some of these present Australian guy's are something special.

[JonM]

L'independant gives the crowd figure as 5, 500 - describes it as a hard blow for the federation, coming on top of a crowd of 3,500 for the Elite final in Toulouse.

Also reported that  Justin Sangaré's try was the 1000th scored by France, according to the RLIF and that Gigot played with a back injury.

[redjonn]

3 hours ago, Dunbar said:

Makes me laugh that people say that Tonga would name a stronger 17 than England while at the same time we hear on these boards that Konrad Hurrell won't make the Saints 17 and Will Hopoate is vastly over rated and is a terrible signing and David Fusitu'a is a poor signing for Leeds.

All three were in the Tonga backline that beat the Kangaroos. 

now your bringing some sort of logic into it... something that often goes missing for some posters or we are sometimes not able to connect the dots....

[Mr Frisky]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

I honestly don't think Tonga will or any other team for that matter, especially not in the playing lifetime of the player's that represent Australia today, obviously my opinion but I think this present Australian team can be as good as any that has gone before it, big ask I know but some of these present Australian guy's are something special.

But haven't currently crop of Aussie players lost 2 if their last 4 games?

Their big stars have all gone and the new generation are untested at international level and a lot depends on how many 'Aussies' opt to play for Tonga, Samoa etc

[Big Picture]

44 minutes ago, JonM said:

L'independant gives the crowd figure as 5, 500 - describes it as a hard blow for the federation, coming on top of a crowd of 3,500 for the Elite final in Toulouse.

Also reported that  Justin Sangaré's try was the 1000th scored by France, according to the RLIF and that Gigot played with a back injury.

Wow, capacity is 13,000 so the crowd was only a tad over 40% of that.  Hmmmm.

[Davo5]

1 hour ago, Mr Frisky said:

But haven't currently crop of Aussie players lost 2 if their last 4 games?

Their big stars have all gone and the new generation are untested at international level and a lot depends on how many 'Aussies' opt to play for Tonga, Samoa etc

This “current” crop won’t have played Test rugby for nearly 3 years going into the World Cup,not sure how anyone can judge how superior they are going to be when they finally decide to show up.

[Mr Frisky]

46 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

This “current” crop won’t have played Test rugby for nearly 3 years going into the World Cup,not sure how anyone can judge how superior they are going to be when they finally decide to show up.

I think Harry has already judged them saying no one has a chance against them.

[Scubby]

2 hours ago, Big Picture said:

Wow, capacity is 13,000 so the crowd was only a tad over 40% of that.  Hmmmm.

I would have said circa 6k looking at it, not a disaster but nothing to celebrate either.

[theswanmcr]

2 minutes ago, Scubby said:

I would have said circa 6k looking at it, not a disaster but nothing to celebrate either.

Indeed. But France haven’t beaten England for decades and were, realistically, never going to do that yesterday. Not easy to whet the appetite and encourage locals for another defeat against Les Beefies 

[Scubby]

6 minutes ago, theswanmcr said:

Indeed. But France haven’t beaten England for decades and were, realistically, never going to do that yesterday. Not easy to whet the appetite and encourage locals for another defeat against Les Beefies 

Again the real difference between RL and many other sports fans where they seem to simply celebrate the event 

[RayCee]

4 hours ago, JonM said:

L'independant gives the crowd figure as 5, 500 - describes it as a hard blow for the federation, coming on top of a crowd of 3,500 for the Elite final in Toulouse.

Also reported that  Justin Sangaré's try was the 1000th scored by France, according to the RLIF and that Gigot played with a back injury.

When I was doing my summary of the two matches for my blog, I think it was the French XIII website put the crowd at 7,000. Rounded figures are never as convincing but that's a sizeable variance between the two.

[Futtocks]

3 hours ago, Big Picture said:

Wow, capacity is 13,000 so the crowd was only a tad over 40% of that.  Hmmmm.

It didn't look packed, but it certainly didn't look only 40% full either.

[Wiltshire Warrior Dragon]

I only got back early evening from leading a church-visiting weekend in Somerset, and cannot claim to have fully read all twenty pages of comments since watching the game this evening, so apologies if this point has already been made.

I was struck how similar the overall structure of the game was to the championship grand final.

So, opening phase determines the outcome as England/TO completely dominate.  Then France/Fev steady the ship somewhat.  On top of that, France/Fev then have their best phase and put points on the board.  However, the effort cannot be maintained, and in the last few minutes, England/TO pull away again.

Or maybe I imagined the similarity.

 

[Saint Toppy]

That was a real mixed bag from England and really separated out the players into 3 distinct groups, 1 - Those who pretty much cemented themselves a spot in future England squads, 2 - Those who need a big SL season to push for a place, and 3 - Those who should just give up now because they are clearly not international standard.

For me those in the 1st group would be;

Davies, Makinson, Lomax, Walmsley, McShane, Cooper, Knowles, Oledzki

2nd Group;

Evalds, Farrell, Bateman, Currie, Philbin

3rd Group;

Lynne, Hardaker, Abdull, Leeming

I have Bateman in the 2nd group as I didn't think he was particularly great, but given he's Wane's 1st choice of Captain he's almost certainly going to be in the WC squad (barring injury).

Aside from a few really poor individual performances the biggest concern must be the massive drop off in intensity up the middle when Walmsley, Cooper & Knowles aren't on the field. Aside from Oledzki who I thought ran hard the metres up the middle just stopped and the middle defence looked very fragile.

[JM2010]

56 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

That was a real mixed bag from England and really separated out the players into 3 distinct groups, 1 - Those who pretty much cemented themselves a spot in future England squads, 2 - Those who need a big SL season to push for a place, and 3 - Those who should just give up now because they are clearly not international standard.

For me those in the 1st group would be;

Davies, Makinson, Lomax, Walmsley, McShane, Cooper, Knowles, Oledzki

2nd Group;

Evalds, Farrell, Bateman, Currie, Philbin

3rd Group;

Lynne, Hardaker, Abdull, Leeming

I have Bateman in the 2nd group as I didn't think he was particularly great, but given he's Wane's 1st choice of Captain he's almost certainly going to be in the WC squad (barring injury).

Aside from a few really poor individual performances the biggest concern must be the massive drop off in intensity up the middle when Walmsley, Cooper & Knowles aren't on the field. Aside from Oledzki who I thought ran hard the metres up the middle just stopped and the middle defence looked very fragile.

I don't think it's too much of a concern. Thompson, Burgess, Whitehead and Sutton can be added to that forward pack

[Scubby]

58 minutes ago, JM2010 said:

I don't think it's too much of a concern. Thompson, Burgess, Whitehead and Sutton can be added to that forward pack

Indeed a WC starting forward pack of:

Walmsley, Clark, Burgess, Whitehead, Bateman, Knowles is a different proposition. 

[JM2010]

2 hours ago, Scubby said:

Indeed a WC starting forward pack of:

Walmsley, Clark, Burgess, Whitehead, Bateman, Knowles is a different proposition. 

Thompson and Oledski coming off the bench keeps the momentum or maybe even adds some

[GeordieSaint]

1 hour ago, JM2010 said:

Thompson and Oledski coming off the bench keeps the momentum or maybe even adds some

I’d rotate Walmsley and Burgess; one start, one on the bench. Both big impact players.

[Davo5]

1 hour ago, JM2010 said:

Thompson and Oledski coming off the bench keeps the momentum or maybe even adds some

I’d have Thompson starting with Burgess coming off the bench for Walmsley.

I just don’t believe having Walmsley & Burgess on together is great defensively.

[Saint Toppy]

1 hour ago, Davo5 said:

I just don’t believe having Walmsley & Burgess on together is great defensively.

Based on what ?

Neither are defensively poor. I'm struggling to find Walmsley's final Stats for 2021 but Burgess is a long, long way down the missed tackle list in the NRL (103rd). In fact the 2 worst English tacklers in the NRL are Hodgson & Whitehead in terms of missed tackles.

[Davo5]

47 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

Based on what ?

Neither are defensively poor. I'm struggling to find Walmsley's final Stats for 2021 but Burgess is a long, long way down the missed tackle list in the NRL (103rd). In fact the 2 worst English tacklers in the NRL are Hodgson & Whitehead in terms of missed tackles.

Based on watching they play,both big men with good front on defence but can be exploited by smaller quick players especially at the back end of their stints,there is a reason Bennett had Burgess coming by off the bench for Souths,with 2 smaller journeymen props starting.

[JM2010]

4 hours ago, GeordieSaint said:

I’d rotate Walmsley and Burgess; one start, one on the bench. Both big impact players.

I'd probably do the same tbh

[scorcher68]

On 25/10/2021 at 11:10, Scubby said:

Indeed a WC starting forward pack of:

Walmsley, Clark, Burgess, Whitehead, Bateman, Knowles is a different proposition. 

 

Bateman on sticky ground for me if Currie and/or Mcmeekan have big years next year . Not huge fans of either but can't help thinking a lack of quality second rowers about .