Lapsed Leeds Fan Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 49 minutes ago, M j M said: I've no evidence but I do wonder what has happened to the club's Jewish fan base the past couple of decades. I went to a school with a large number of Jewish kids and, whilst the soccer club was more popular, there remained a good number of fans who went to Headingley on a Sunday afternoon. This is late 80s/ early 90s, pre Super League and Friday night games. I would guess that Friday sunset being the start of the Jewish sabbath has undoubtedly contributed to this. An overlooked consequence of Leeds moving regular matches to a Friday evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldofclothofgold Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 I grew up in Bramley the Brozdlea estate and the older lads who got me into RL came from the the. Leeds RL heartlands Kirkstall, kirkstall road and Burley etc. And although we played football at school at home we played RL Headingley just up the Hill and BarleyMow up the hill in other dire action. Only time football was on TV was the FA CUPFINAL in the 50s and not all had TVs . Going to Elland road was like a big journey once or twice a year . Just like first time I went go Parkside it was like a long journey. I supported 2 clubs Bramley and Leeds . Soon we will be dancing the fandangoFROM 2004,TO DO WHAT THIS CLUB HAS DONE,IF THATS NOT GREATNESSTHEN i DONT KNOW WHAT IS.JAMIE PEACOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 39 minutes ago, tiffers said: Odd recollection, but I remember frequently seeing Richie Mathers on the phone in East End Park... Perhaps he had something to do with the folks pulling dodgy deals down the back of the Neville Hill Rail Depot! I saw Zak Hardaker in Methley once but that's another story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind side johnny Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 7 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said: Leeds produce more Super League players than any other club, more than enough to supply 2 Super League clubs. A Super League team playing out of Elland Road could be a massive success, it’d give a big city derby that would completely eclipse Hull Fc v Hull Kr. Most of the juniors they pick up and eventually develop aren't from Leeds, though, so is this relevant? Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 20 minutes ago, Blind side johnny said: Most of the juniors they pick up and eventually develop aren't from Leeds, though, so is this relevant? I don't think that should be over stated too much. Leeds do look broadly yes, but of the 3 youngest home grown players in our starting 13 (Newman, Oledski & Hanley), only Newman isn't from Leeds or played for a Leeds junior team iirc. Even then it was Huddersfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind side johnny Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 10 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: I don't think that should be over stated too much. Leeds do look broadly yes, but of the 3 youngest home grown players in our starting 13 (Newman, Oledski & Hanley), only Newman isn't from Leeds or played for a Leeds junior team iirc. Even then it was Huddersfield. Accepted, but the implication of SKS's post is that Leeds is a comparative hotbed of RL talent, which I don't believe is true. His eponymous hero is a case in point. Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barley Mow Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 6 hours ago, tiffers said: I'd agree with you @Lapsed Leeds Fan. I just dont see enough people that would be interested in RL to develop a whole new SL level club. It's a real shame RL has never managed to work its way into these regions as the wealth and affluence would inevitably attract more lucrative opportunities for RL. Just looking at the ONS population data, it estimates you are looking at a total of 128k people that live in these regions of the city. So a significantly smaller number of people compared to the more densely populated inner-city. Going just north of Leeds, albeit with strong economic connections, the likes of Otley, Ilkley, Harrogate, Knaresborough, Ripon and Wetherby are well and truly RU heartlands with very strong clubs in their communities. The demographics are hugely different to our core fanbase in RL. So you'd have to do some serious mileage in branding to overcome those hurdles to generate even a modest interest. Ripon is an odd one here. I lived there for a long time and it is certainly a lot more working class than Harrogate, Otley and Ilkley (if you believed the people of Harrogate you would think it was badly deprived!) This was the late 90s/early 00's and you would see loads of lads wandering around in Leeds and Bradford RL shirts - you definitely didn't in Harrogate. Ripon itself has a union club and no league club, but I always put that down to it being the wrong side of what I think of as the 'union belt' to the north of Leeds - Business owners from Leeds and Bradford in the 19th century wouldn't have wanted to live there, so lived in Harrogate, Otley, & Ilkley. Their sons went off to private schools and set up union clubs in the union belt when they came home (Harrogate, Otley, Ilkley & Wharfedale were all traditionally some of Yorkshire's better union teams). This (and the more affluent demographic) in those towns stopped the spread of league northward. Ripon seems a lot more working class to me, but found itself on the wrong side of those towns for a league club to be successfully set up - but people there do follow the nearest RL teams, the pubs always showed matches and a lot of the people I knew who played for/watched the local union club were primarily fans of league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robthegasman Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 13 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said: This idea appears to be very much in the mould of "Brisbane II" in the NRL. I'd say the fundamental difference would be that the are a large number of places around Leeds that would never identify with being Leeds desire their economical ties to it. I can see the reasons for the idea and have considered this myself in the past. Big clubs in any sport are more likely to succeed in high population densities in large cities. If that city is large enough, it supporting 2 clubs often don't affect the other to the extent of the 2nd club being smaller than a club in a smaller population density. To clarify what I mean, Leeds is huge. There's no way everyone in Leeds supports the Rhinos. Rugby league is just not big enough a sport to have an appeal that broad to make a great many people travel that far IMO (some will and obviously do). This is why to me the notion of clubs representing huge areas alone (i.e. London) doesn't really work in practice. There are parts of Leeds where there is little to no interest in rugby league, and the Rhinos just won't resonate much with them as they're miles away. A club in closer proximity may have more of a connection. I've no doubt with the right investment, you could easily create a club representing a different area of Leeds that could rival the size of Wakefield, Castleford and Huddersfield. I think had Hunslet repackaged as "Leeds Hawks" at the advent of SL, their potential for investors would have been greatly increased and could have even seen them in SL at the end of the 90s with a redeveloped/expanded South Leeds Stadium - as Hunslet, there were just too many reasons to deny them opportunity to go up. They chose to remain a community club, which is their prerogative. Local rivalries also drum up more interest (both within those areas and with neutrals) as long as those areas are of similar stature. Leeds are just so much bigger than all of their rivals and an inter-city rivalry would have been beneficial to drumming up interest across the city rather than diluting it. Bradford are the only ones who came close. I think Bradford is a big enough area to be considered a better target for growth ultimately than a second Leeds team though as, despite my point about RL not having a wide enough appeal for many people to travel distances, the aim would be to grow that in the future, so you would be diluting future growth potential within Leeds for no reason as there's already a ready-made opportunity next door! If we accept the appeal of RL to being what it is today forevermore, then a second Leeds side would be a good shout, and I'd still say Hunslet rebranding would be the best chance of quick success (much like I think Swinton not rebranding as Manchester Lions is a missed opportunity). Sorry for the long post! I think it's an interesting idea that doesn't deserve immediately shooting down. I don’t think another big club in Leeds would be the right thing.I think the Rhinos are better off alone it that respect. Time will of course tell regarding the proposed Manchester Lions rebrand.My feeling was it could have worked given a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wellsy4HullFC Posted October 26, 2021 Share Posted October 26, 2021 28 minutes ago, Robthegasman said: I don’t think another big club in Leeds would be the right thing.I think the Rhinos are better off alone it that respect. Time will of course tell regarding the proposed Manchester Lions rebrand.My feeling was it could have worked given a chance. I agree about Leeds. It isn't necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yipyee Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 On 26/10/2021 at 00:23, M j M said: I know you haven't a clue about Rugby League in the UK, let alone West Yorkshire, but Cas remains Leeds' premier local derby, as it has been with some brief interruptions for all of my lifetime. No more than you kidder.. Cas real derby is vs Wakey Leeds have no derby anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niels Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 On 26/10/2021 at 12:56, M j M said: Having grown up in north Leeds and still essentially living there I think it's fair to say that there isn't by and large any old school anti-League feeling of the type which might disrupt the sport in other areas. The club leans heavily as has been suggested into this demographic - or the businesses they work for - to give it the financial competitive edge over all other clubs in the league. There's probably more that can be done by the club but there's certainly not a desire there for a second Leeds club. I've no evidence but I do wonder what has happened to the club's Jewish fan base the past couple of decades. I went to a school with a large number of Jewish kids and, whilst the soccer club was more popular, there remained a good number of fans who went to Headingley on a Sunday afternoon. This is late 80s/ early 90s, pre Super League and Friday night games. Again though there isn't a latent base of support in the wealthier part of the city looking for a new RL club so you'd be struggling from the start there. From reading your post, I think I went to the same school as you. I also watched Leeds when I was younger. It would be interesting to know what happened to the Jewish fan base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 10 hours ago, yipyee said: No more than you kidder.. Cas real derby is vs Wakey Leeds have no derby anymore Every West Yorkshire team wants to beat Leeds with most having the "noisy neighbours" vibe about them. Given we have 6 teams from Yorkshire in Super League quibbling over "proper" derbies seems a bit short-sighted. Our derbies (and they are derbies) with Cas, Wakefield etc are a bit like Liverpool and Everton in the Premier League. You do get the sense that beating the big local team is their biggest game of the season - certainly with my experience in Cas it is the case that beating Leeds is a major coup whereas Wakefield isn't. Likewise is true for a lot of Wakefield fans. Part of that is self fulfilling too. Leeds fans thinking they are beyond trivial local rivalries with Cas and Wakey etc only fuels those other teams wanting to beat Leeds more which allows Leeds fans to wind them up about being obsessed which further drives the cycle. So whilst Leeds have lots of Derbies, since the demise of Bradford we haven't had one of equal standing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M j M Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 2 hours ago, Tommygilf said: Every West Yorkshire team wants to beat Leeds with most having the "noisy neighbours" vibe about them. Given we have 6 teams from Yorkshire in Super League quibbling over "proper" derbies seems a bit short-sighted. Our derbies (and they are derbies) with Cas, Wakefield etc are a bit like Liverpool and Everton in the Premier League. You do get the sense that beating the big local team is their biggest game of the season - certainly with my experience in Cas it is the case that beating Leeds is a major coup whereas Wakefield isn't. Likewise is true for a lot of Wakefield fans. Part of that is self fulfilling too. Leeds fans thinking they are beyond trivial local rivalries with Cas and Wakey etc only fuels those other teams wanting to beat Leeds more which allows Leeds fans to wind them up about being obsessed which further drives the cycle. So whilst Leeds have lots of Derbies, since the demise of Bradford we haven't had one of equal standing. I do still place Cas on a different tier to the others. Perhaps I'm old school but growing up, pre-Bulls, it was always the biggest derby. A sense amplified by working in Normanton for six years right in the thick of them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 Just now, M j M said: I do still place Cas on a different tier to the others. Perhaps I'm old school but growing up, pre-Bulls, it was always the biggest derby. A sense amplified by working in Normanton for six years right in the thick of them! Yeah I totally get that having spent a lot of time in Cas and Wakey! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M j M Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 38 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: Yeah I totally get that having spent a lot of time in Cas and Wakey! In my six years working in Normy we beat them in a Cup final and a Grand final. But all you'd hear was they'd beat us five games in a row or whatever it was. Aaaagghhh I'm getting wound up just thinking about it! Put it this way, as a Leeds fan Cas is the one away game I don't miss in any season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldofclothofgold Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 When I was a young boy late 50s early 60s to me Featherstone seemed to have a higher profile than Cas very vociferous crowd Soon we will be dancing the fandangoFROM 2004,TO DO WHAT THIS CLUB HAS DONE,IF THATS NOT GREATNESSTHEN i DONT KNOW WHAT IS.JAMIE PEACOCK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 58 minutes ago, M j M said: In my six years working in Normy we beat them in a Cup final and a Grand final. But all you'd hear was they'd beat us five games in a row or whatever it was. Aaaagghhh I'm getting wound up just thinking about it! Put it this way, as a Leeds fan Cas is the one away game I don't miss in any season. I empathise with that as I played rugby in Cas at the same time. I always retort with "Wembley, Old Trafford, Agent Zak, where's the trophy for the run? etc." and find that shuts them up! Thinking about that time however I find it interesting that the Cas fans held Wakefield Trinity in as much more contempt/further beneath them than Leeds fans towards Cas. Until Cas actually win something though then the "its your grand final" attitude will persist amongst Leeds fans. Its unfortunate for them (but deeply hilarious for us) that their best season ever ended up being won by Leeds. Had it been Wigan or Saints then maybe they'd be more comfortable in their position as one of the big boys. I think there is an improved legitimacy/status point that clubs/fans look for by beating certain sides. Leeds did it with Wigan for years, England still do it with Australia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yipyee Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 On 29/10/2021 at 09:33, Tommygilf said: Every West Yorkshire team wants to beat Leeds with most having the "noisy neighbours" vibe about them. Given we have 6 teams from Yorkshire in Super League quibbling over "proper" derbies seems a bit short-sighted. Our derbies (and they are derbies) with Cas, Wakefield etc are a bit like Liverpool and Everton in the Premier League. You do get the sense that beating the big local team is their biggest game of the season - certainly with my experience in Cas it is the case that beating Leeds is a major coup whereas Wakefield isn't. Likewise is true for a lot of Wakefield fans. Part of that is self fulfilling too. Leeds fans thinking they are beyond trivial local rivalries with Cas and Wakey etc only fuels those other teams wanting to beat Leeds more which allows Leeds fans to wind them up about being obsessed which further drives the cycle. So whilst Leeds have lots of Derbies, since the demise of Bradford we haven't had one of equal standing. Well they will have 9 English derby teams and 2 more european derby teams to play against next year Saints vs Wigan is the only true derby anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 2 hours ago, yipyee said: Well they will have 9 English derby teams and 2 more european derby teams to play against next year Saints vs Wigan is the only true derby anyway Surely it is the Stanley Cup?? Its a daft argument Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M j M Posted October 30, 2021 Share Posted October 30, 2021 This is as good a place as any to mention that Hetherington and Caddick have just celebrated 25 years of owning Leeds and there's been a flurry of newspaper interviews with GH about his tenure and how it's turned around since he arrived. There was a genuine fear that the club would be taken to Elland Road and Headingley bulldozed and who knows where we'd have ended up had that happened. What's happened in the quarter century since, on and off field, remains an outstanding achievement of Rugby League management, cementing Hetherington's legacy as a club builder of the highest calibre. Anyway here's an image of one of the most seminal moments of those 25 years. I wonder what these three were really thinking was going to happen next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PREPOSTEROUS Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 All the talk of expansion and I now read a thread about starting up a RL team in a Leeds suburb. Could this forum be more Jekyll and Hyde?! Anyhow far easier then setting up a new club, where most if not all loyalties with be towards the current Leeds club, is for Trinity, Cas, Bradford et al to get their ***** into gear and be that rival to Leeds in their pomp. Having said that, Leeds are also rans right now, and I'm generally disappointed if Trinity don't beat them as opposed to being delighted if they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M j M Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, PREPOSTEROUS said: Having said that, Leeds are also rans right now, and I'm generally disappointed if Trinity don't beat them as opposed to being delighted if they do. You missed your chance to really turn Leeds over in the 2018-20 period. The boat has sailed now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yipyee Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 19 hours ago, Tommygilf said: Surely it is the Stanley Cup?? Its a daft argument Ay? If you look at why a derby is called a derby then theres your answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 7 minutes ago, yipyee said: Ay? If you look at why a derby is called a derby then theres your answer Another sporting tradition named after Lord Derby. I know the history of the term very well, I also know that it has outgrown that original (official) use very quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yipyee Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 7 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: Another sporting tradition named after Lord Derby. I know the history of the term very well, I also know that it has outgrown that original (official) use very quickly. True, its when hull fans claim that the hull derby is the only real one thats funny. Footy will say it for any 2 clubs and choose a reference like M62 derby haha that would cover most of our league games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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