Tabby Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 21 minutes ago, tec said: A proper league structure with promotion/relegation works for 99% of sports. If your good enough you go up and down if not. The location of clubs or how many likes you have on social media shouldn’t come into it. Put some stability in the structure and let the lower league clubs have something to aim for instead of them worrying they will be cut adrift. I do agree it’s a woeful excuse to use social media as a means of income. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumby Magic Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 If people think promotion and relegation is the main worry of our sport we are doomed. Like poor jokes? Thejoketeller@mullymessiah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 10 minutes ago, tec said: Afford ? And why shouldn’t RL try and follow the example of Football the planets most successfully sport? I didn't say it shouldn't, just that the assertion that 99% of sports do it was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Tonks Sidestep Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 2 hours ago, Spidey said: For Leigh maybe, for Widnes, Castleford, Wakefield, Hull FC, Hull KR it isn't Nor Salford and Huddersfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tec Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 4 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: I didn't say it shouldn't, just that the assertion that 99% of sports do it was wrong. I think if you did an assessment of all the worlds sports from bottom leagues up you will find my 99% is fairly accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 4 minutes ago, tec said: I think if you did an assessment of all the worlds sports from bottom leagues up you will find my 99% is fairly accurate. I think it's only fair to show the results of your in depth assessment, and how you drew your 99% conclusion, before expecting others to do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabby Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 11 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said: Nor Salford and Huddersfield They are no better off. The drawbridge went up and they all dwelled in a comfort zone. An elite league that isn’t elite. As soon as something violates that comfort zone the rules change. Well it’s time for change to make the product (SL) elite. If that comes at cost to clubs who have continued in their comfort zones then sobeit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tec Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 8 minutes ago, Damien said: I think it's only fair to show the results of your in depth assessment, and how you drew your 99% conclusion, before expecting others to do it Of course as an example, I will start with the UK Cricket,Football,RL,RU,Hockey,Basketball apologies for those sports I have omitted. Feel free to survey the rest of the world but I still hold onto the hope that it’s not all based on monetary values otherwise Elon Musk would be leading the Tour de France every year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
del capo Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 36 minutes ago, Tommygilf said: Most sports, in the UK and in the rest of the world, run with a single elite division. Very few have the luxury of being able to afford promotion and relegation. Often people are blinded to this because of the predominance of football. That is not true in so far as the UK is concerned. Promotion and relegation exists in most club team sports. Soccer , Rugby Union . Rugby league, Cricket, Tennis, Athletics etc all have p and r at national regional and local level. It's the British way of recognising winners and losers Even if those clubs having eventually 'made it ' into the elite ( in whatever sport ) then try their best to pull up the drawbridge after them,,,,,,,,,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabby Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 11 minutes ago, del capo said: That is not true in so far as the UK is concerned. Promotion and relegation exists in most club team sports. Soccer , Rugby Union . Rugby league, Cricket, Tennis, Athletics etc all have p and r at national regional and local level. It's the British way of recognising winners and losers Even if those clubs having eventually 'made it ' into the elite ( in whatever sport ) then try their best to pull up the drawbridge after them,,,,,,,,,, Are all contenders part-time or full time in those sports in a lower tier to the elite league? Example… Is the second division in cricket part-time or ft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
del capo Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 3 minutes ago, Tabby said: Are all contenders part-time or full time in those sports in a lower tier to the elite league? Example… Is the second division in cricket part-time or ft? Not sure what the amount of time put into your chosen sport has to do with it. The second divisions for instance in Soccer RU Cricket and even to an extent RL are full time professionals. Part time professionals exist further down the chain in most other team sports.. We have pros round here in the Lancs cricket Leagues all the way down..... Still not sure of your point though. What motivates a team to seek promotion or avoid relegation is certainly not just money even at levels where that is available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabby Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 7 minutes ago, del capo said: Not sure what the amount of time put into your chosen sport has to do with it. The second divisions for instance in Soccer RU Cricket and even to an extent RL are full time professionals. Part time professionals exist further down the chain in most other team sports.. We have pros round here in the Lancs cricket Leagues all the way down..... Still not sure of your point though. What motivates a team to seek promotion or avoid relegation is certainly not just money even at levels where that is available. How many RL clubs are full time in Championship? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
del capo Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 Just now, Tabby said: How many RL clubs are full time in Championship? Look it up for yourself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liverpool Rover Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 There has never been P&R between the County Championship and the Minor Counties in Cricket for as long as I can remember and when I googled British Basketball P&R the very first thing is that there is no P&R to and from the BBL as it is a franchised league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabby Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 4 minutes ago, del capo said: Look it up for yourself How many will start in a full time environment next season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tec Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, Liverpool Rover said: There has never been P&R between the County Championship and the Minor Counties in Cricket for as long as I can remember and when I googled British Basketball P&R the very first thing is that there is no P&R to and from the BBL as it is a franchised league. Find that strange all the leagues in Basketball just stay as they are. Is there any point in playing games ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabby Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, tec said: Find that strange all the leagues in Basketball just stay as they are. Is there any point in playing games ? Yes.. Their budget never changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liverpool Rover Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 2 minutes ago, tec said: Find that strange all the leagues in Basketball just stay as they are. Is there any point in playing games ? To win the league? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabby Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 4 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said: Havent read through all this but sensible decision. 10 team SL is dumb. Just feel bad for clubs who budgeted to stay up and now have to do it next year. But championship is now stacked and when Toulouse stay up I pray some serious thinking starts. They have time as it will be in force 2024. Dumb as you think it maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
del capo Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 45 minutes ago, Liverpool Rover said: There has never been P&R between the County Championship and the Minor Counties in Cricket for as long as I can remember and when I googled British Basketball P&R the very first thing is that there is no P&R to and from the BBL as it is a franchised league. Cricket has P&R within the two County divisions. Minor Counties was always a stand alone comp with lots of 2nd X1 but still produced 4 full County sides over the years . Durham being the latest. It has no feeder sides as such by definition of its identity ( 20 counties ) but plays East / West conference style rather than divisions to offset travel and other logistics. RL has no P&R between Tiers 3 and 4. but that doesn't mean the whole structure isn't based on it. As for Basketball lets just say they follow the American franchise system..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabby Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 6 minutes ago, del capo said: Cricket has P&R within the two County divisions. Minor Counties was always a stand alone comp with lots of 2nd X1 but still produced 4 full County sides over the years . Durham being the latest. It has no feeder sides as such by definition of its identity ( 20 counties ) but plays East / West conference style rather than divisions to offset travel and other logistics. RL has no P&R between Tiers 3 and 4. but that doesn't mean the whole structure isn't based on it. As for Basketball lets just say they follow the American franchise system..... You cant have P&R between 3 and 4. All below 3 are amateur. They have to request. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
del capo Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 Just now, ShropshireBull said: For sports that struggle to attract investors franchising helps protect the inbestment and give more confidence to owners and sponsors. I dont want it for uk twams Its better than 2 x10 plus national teams who dont want to travel to Cornwall. I agree but it can become all to easily a private members club with greed taking over. Do we really want an NRL style competition over here that has become a protectionist racket that even billionaires can't crack with solid expansion plans ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tec Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 1 hour ago, Tabby said: Yes.. Their budget never changes. So the teams play without Promotion & relegation because the budget never changes ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabby Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 5 minutes ago, tec said: So the teams play without Promotion & relegation because the budget never changes ? Yes, they basically play in their own league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tec Posted November 4, 2021 Share Posted November 4, 2021 1 minute ago, Tabby said: Yes, they basically play in their own league. That sounds exciting and aspirational for all concerned. Explains why UK Basketball isn’t a popular sport here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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