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The Cornwall RLFC Thread


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9 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Tbf, Mr Hughes at London and Mr Beaumont at Leigh have also spent millions too for practically as little results. Its an expensive hobby...

Playing in Summer should give the RL side a bit of breathing room with fixture timings however.

all true, but the roads - as someone who used to live down there - are a nightmare. No one/team is going there and back in a day in July or August for a start, unless they've got a private plane (oddly enough seats for the summer county are at a premium in the summer months). I live in Northants now and even leaving from here at 4am I'd not be confident of making it to the ground for kick off in July/August. Then you've got to get back. And overnight of course you've stayed in one of the many Cornish hotels who are happy to do one night bookings during peak season...

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actually, the more I've engaged with this thread and my own experiences of rugby union, rugby league, and living in the far southwest (and trying to get anywhere else at various times of the year), the madder I think the idea is - and I'm keen to go and watch them.

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6 hours ago, Billy King's Boots said:

Precisely this. 

Comparing Rugby League's third tier with 'what professional football does' is a misdirection.

For starters, clubs in football's third tier are full time. Doncaster Rovers receive just over £1.3 million pounds in Sky 'solidarity payments. Outside the 'giants' of Sunderland, Sheffield Wednesday, Ipswich and Bolton who all pull in big crowds - third tier clubs have an average attendance of around 6,500.

League two clubs don't offer much more of a comparison. Again: full time, in 2019/20 Rochdale received a total of £1,220,000 of Premier League Funding. The average attendance in football's fourth tier is around the 4,000 mark.

For a more accurate view, you have to look at football clubs similar in status and support to a League 1 Rugby League Club.

For that you have to look down as far as football's Tier Six - for example Curzon Ashton (Tameside) and Bradford Park Avenue (W.Yorkshire). Both 'Northern' and semi-professional, they average crowds of 450 and 500 respectively - and they play in the regionalised National League North. Regionalised to help reduce the logistics and cost impacts on clubs with limited resources.
 

Spot on.

I empathise entirely with Rochdale or Keighley for example not being chuffed about this. They are comparatively tiny organisations, funded as such, and are being asked to do what clubs who get attendances 10 or more times what they do. The difference is even greater when it comes to funding. Its not really very fair.

However, perhaps one of the reasons they are in the situation they are in is because the sport doesn’t have a broad national base of support drawing in finance. We're in a catch 22 where the sport is mature in some areas but is therefore regional too. Those regions aren't wealthy, diverse or financially, strong enough to fund a national game.

To break that there is going to have to be metaphorical "teething" periods. Clubs quite simply will be overtaken in their position in the game, not replaced.

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4 minutes ago, iffleyox said:

all true, but the roads - as someone who used to live down there - are a nightmare. No one/team is going there and back in a day in July or August for a start, unless they've got a private plane (oddly enough seats for the summer county are at a premium in the summer months). I live in Northants now and even leaving from here at 4am I'd not be confident of making it to the ground for kick off in July/August. Then you've got to get back. And overnight of course you've stayed in one of the many Cornish hotels who are happy to do one night bookings during peak season...

It is unfortunate that the Tamar doesn't go all the way so we could call them an island, say no, and be done with it...

I know my comment was facetious but ultimately they are part of mainland UK, an extremity yes, but a part nonetheless. So awkward as it is, the above is a just a quirk sadly.

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13 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

There's a significant difference between hiring a coach vs a ferry or plane (on top). I mean come on Dave?

Everyone is generally speaking equal on the mainland.

Can't have it all ways. People are championing flying down to Cornwall as a solution. 

But a lot of this is scratching at the surface of the issue. Whatever we call central funding, the RFL has overseen an 80% reduction and then introduced a new substantial cost without getting the clubs on board. They have every right to be peed off with the RFL. 

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Just now, Dave T said:

Can't have it all ways. People are championing flying down to Cornwall as a solution. 

But a lot of this is scratching at the surface of the issue. Whatever we call central funding, the RFL has overseen an 80% reduction and then introduced a new substantial cost without getting the clubs on board. They have every right to be peed off with the RFL. 

I totally agree they have a right to be peed off with the RFL, and I suspect the Cornwall point is just a facet of that overall feeling. Which is perhaps why some of the complaints seem so instinctive and basic?

Flying might be a solution if you have the money and decide it is worth it, but the point is that you don't have to use any mode of transport other than road or rail - unlike the other examples mentioned.

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6 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Spot on.

I empathise entirely with Rochdale or Keighley for example not being chuffed about this. They are comparatively tiny organisations, funded as such, and are being asked to do what clubs who get attendances 10 or more times what they do. The difference is even greater when it comes to funding. Its not really very fair.

However, perhaps one of the reasons they are in the situation they are in is because the sport doesn’t have a broad national base of support drawing in finance. We're in a catch 22 where the sport is mature in some areas but is therefore regional too. Those regions aren't wealthy, diverse or financially, strong enough to fund a national game.

To break that there is going to have to be metaphorical "teething" periods. Clubs quite simply will be overtaken in their position in the game, not replaced.

I agree with the principal of this - one of the big problems though, and for me a key reason why people don't buy into this vision, is that we have very few examples of it happening. Almost without exception the newer expansion clubs either go belly up or end up propping up the bottom tier.

That isn't to say they aren't adding value, but we need to see more expansion (or call them non-UK heartland) teams doing well - the French teams are helping, and Newcastle continuing to grow would be a real positive. 

But to the average RL fan they see a huge list of failures and it is easy for them to say people are not interested. It's one of the reasons I'd have supported London over every other project we have done. 

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1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

I totally agree they have a right to be peed off with the RFL, and I suspect the Cornwall point is just a facet of that overall feeling. Which is perhaps why some of the complaints seem so instinctive and basic?

Flying might be a solution if you have the money and decide it is worth it, but the point is that you don't have to use any mode of transport other than road or rail - unlike the other examples mentioned.

But road and rail isn't free, you pay for that just like a plane. 

The cost is substantially higher than every other game, that's why costs are relevant. Now its your prerogative to say tough, but I think its equally valid for those paying the bills to push back.

I don't think it is necessarily fair for the RFL to just palm of the costs of expansion on the existing clubs. 

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5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I agree with the principal of this - one of the big problems though, and for me a key reason why people don't buy into this vision, is that we have very few examples of it happening. Almost without exception the newer expansion clubs either go belly up or end up propping up the bottom tier.

That isn't to say they aren't adding value, but we need to see more expansion (or call them non-UK heartland) teams doing well - the French teams are helping, and Newcastle continuing to grow would be a real positive. 

But to the average RL fan they see a huge list of failures and it is easy for them to say people are not interested. It's one of the reasons I'd have supported London over every other project we have done. 

I agree, but getting the funding for UK teams (i was going to say non-heartlands but its difficult there too) is exceptionally difficult and there appears to be few incentives for anyone inclined to do so.

Its a sad predicament that our most successful clubs at attracting interest have been from different countries altogether.

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3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

But road and rail isn't free, you pay for that just like a plane. 

The cost is substantially higher than every other game, that's why costs are relevant. Now its your prerogative to say tough, but I think its equally valid for those paying the bills to push back.

I don't think it is necessarily fair for the RFL to just palm of the costs of expansion on the existing clubs. 

The only exceptional thing about it is the distance, no flights, no abnormal away day activities. You do exactly what you would for a normal away fixture only for longer. If we took it to the reductive level no away game that couldn't be walked to would ever be played.

I would agree with your final sentence save for saying "existing league 1 clubs". Though even then there is significant question marks over where is acceptable for a new club to come in and at what level?

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So, I think I have got the gist of this thread.

Just like when I was a kid, it's a really long way to Cornwall but you only have to drive there once a year and you will have fun when you get there.

It's just a case of 17 Rugby League players and the club staff saying "are we there yet?" from Stoke onwards.

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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

The way it works in the Vase is that the home team pays for the travel of the away team (out of the gate receipts) and, after that, any gate revenue is shared.

So the travelling side is not out of pocket.

From my travels with Buckland Athletic in the vase i believe its the price of a coach for the team & 90% help with cost buy filling the empty seats with fans.

 

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13 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

The only exceptional thing about it is the distance, no flights, no abnormal away day activities. You do exactly what you would for a normal away fixture only for longer. If we took it to the reductive level no away game that couldn't be walked to would ever be played.

I would agree with your final sentence save for saying "existing league 1 clubs". Though even then there is significant question marks over where is acceptable for a new club to come in and at what level?

Indeed. Keighley (I'm not sure why everyone is using Keighley as the standard but I may as well) to Penryn takes a little under 2 hours more than it does from Keighley to Llanelli. Many of those costs will be pretty much the same and certainly wont be hugely more. Yes coach hire will be a bit more but all in all we are not talking about hugely more expense. Selling the coach trip to fans could even offset extra costs.

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10 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

So, I think I have got the gist of this thread.

Just like when I was a kid, it's a really long way to Cornwall but you only have to drive there once a year and you will have fun when you get there.

It's just a case of 17 Rugby League players and the club staff saying "are we there yet?" from Stoke onwards.

And a fantastic booze up on the way back!

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1 minute ago, Damien said:

And a fantastic booze up on the way back!

Nah, my dad was very strict about that  no booze in the car until I was 12.

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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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1 minute ago, Dunbar said:

Nah, my dad was very strict about that  no booze in the car until I was 12.

so you could take over the driving when he passed out leathered?

see you later undertaker - in a while necrophile 

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1 hour ago, Exiled red said:

If there's 500k rugby loving people already in Cornwall, why can't they muster up a top flight union side and build a relatively low cost 10k capacity stadium.

Easy answer because the Rugby Union lot don't want to share with Truro City, certain people over the years have kicked up a fuss about building the stadium & if you come from the Cornwall & Devon area you will be aware of who these people are who have held up the stadium always in the papers & likes of spotlight (BBC)

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1 minute ago, graveyard johnny said:

so you could take over the driving when he passed out leathered?

Is that you dad?

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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

"If someone doesn't value evidence, what evidence are you going to provide to prove that they should value it? If someone doesn't value logic, what logical argument could you provide to show the importance of logic?" — Sam Harris

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12 minutes ago, Damien said:

Indeed. Keighley (I'm not sure why everyone is using Keighley as the standard .....

Is it because Keighley are the most northerly team in Division 3 ?

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"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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Sure I’ve read this somewhere before…

Perez said: "Moving to Cornwall makes it a truly national sport. Cornwall and the north of England are extremely similar places, with its culture and industrial history. The class system is not there. It’s a rugby league place waiting to happen. There’s a massive untapped talent resource there because everybody in Cornwall picks up an oval ball.
I have three goals. Old Trafford, build up RL across Cornwall and have Cornish players playing for England. There are no professional summer sports in Cornwall. That makes us a tourist attraction. In Cornwall we can actually make an impact. The project is fully financed, with the money that was going into Ottawa having been diverted to Cornwall. The squad will initially be part-time". Perez is confident he can win over the doubters when he presents his plan to a meeting of Championship and League 1 clubs on Wednesday.
"We’re going to build this sustainably over time. I personally would like to be in Super League within seven to 10 years. There is already a lot of grassroots activity which we will be supporting and the Cornish Rebels are going to be a feeder club".

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11 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

What bad publicity though? Literally nobody batted an eyelid at any of the failed Southern expansion teams demises. It doesn't register on either their own local radar or even to the broader RL radar except maybe briefly because of the publicity (or rather lack of) devoted to League 1.

Nobody loses here. Either Cornwall are a success and RL has a new home in the South West, or they fail and RL has spent virtually nothing save a bit of time in a club that barely registered whilst someone else has spent their own money, whilst leaving a number of people with a new interest in RL.

I find the "bad publicity" argument naïve at best, disingenuous at worst. I take no notice because the same criticisms are levelled at seemingly everyone who wasn't there in 1960 and tried to join since; including might I add, Sheffield and Manchester.

I don't actually blame some of the existing clubs for this, we're asking a lot of very small organisations and indeed asking them to operate way beyond their current capabilities. But if you keep asking the people who can't why you shouldn't then you'll get the same responses.

Funny that. I know loads of people who don’t follow rl cos they think it’s A joke

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sometimes you have to take a step backwards to move forward

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