OriginalMrC Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, Damien said: WWR were formed over a decade ago. What they now have is quite different to what they had. In their first 5 years they moved from ground to ground and were even taken over by Wales Rugby League. Please don't pretend they had loads of money because they didn't. WWR entered league 1 in 2017 and their first full season was in 2018. They were an amateur club before that. The backers of WWR have poured significant funds into the club and it looks like they will continue to do so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammo Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 17 hours ago, iffleyox said: I would have been looking at any of Portsmouth, Reading, Norwich, Stoke, Derby - appreciate it's all pins in maps but I wouldn't start with Bristol or Cornwall. Have seen Derby suggested a few times but don’t think it would work - there isn’t a suitable facility for a team attracting ~5k people. If I was looking at the East Midlands I’d go with Nottingham - Lady Bay would be ideal to start and could move up to the Notts County stadium if successful. I went to university in Norwich and think there suffers from the same issue - I don’t know of any facilities other than the Canaries ground Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 1 minute ago, OriginalMrC said: WWR entered league 1 in 2017 and their first full season was in 2018. They were an amateur club before that. The backers of WWR have poured significant funds into the club and it looks like they will continue to do so Oh so you are just going to ignore when they were known as South Wales. Convenient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriginalMrC Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Just now, Damien said: Oh so you are just going to ignore when they were known as South Wales. Convenient. What?! South Wales and West Wales Raiders were/are completely different clubs with different owners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, Damien said: Oh so you are just going to ignore when they were known as South Wales. Convenient. I think, depending on what point you want to make, it's possible to regard West Wales as either a continuation of the amateur side West Wales, a continuation of the semi professional side South Wales/Ironmen, or a elements of the two. If we're going to categorically say the middle one then we really should say that Cornwall will be fine because they have their history as being Hemel Stags to fall back on. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 12 minutes ago, OriginalMrC said: What?! South Wales and West Wales Raiders were/are completely different clubs with different owners. Literally the owners of the West Wales amateur side took over South Wales Ironmen during the 2017 season. They finished out the remainder of the season as South Wales Ironmen but moved them to Llanelli. The following season they moved them to Llanelli permanently and rebranded them as West Wales Raiders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iffleyox Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 16 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said: Yep people look at places but infrastructure you can : a) scale b) commercially exploit and c) not be pushed out of is difficult. Its why the RFL is crazy not to have a team at the MRA. After that, you are really looking at either non league clubs who arent going to make FL so you can 3g it ( Telford) or RU clubs who you can dual code a stadium with ( Plymouth, Rotherham) I think the bold is a stretch - firstly Clifton Lane is many things, but it's not a 'stadium'; and secondly one of the many things it is is a cricket pitch whose outfield covers part of the rugby pitch. Dual code in Rotherham would mean pooling funds to either move to a new facility, or evict the cricket club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iffleyox Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said: I know what Clinton lane is, I am talking about Millmoor which sits empty with a convenant owned by Booths. If it could be brought back into use then it would be ideal. Fair - I thought that was long gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriginalMrC Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 17 minutes ago, Damien said: Literally the owners of the West Wales amateur side took over South Wales Ironmen during the 2017 season. They finished out the remainder of the season as South Wales Ironmen but moved them to Llanelli. The following season they moved them to Llanelli permanently and rebranded them as West Wales Raiders. Yes you've got the jist right but that's not exactly true: https://www.rugby-league.com/article/50538/south-wales-ironmen-to-become-west-wales-raiders So they are different clubs with different owners. Don't know what point you are trying to make. You said WWR had no money to bring players in when the reality is one thing they are not lacking is money. If they can afford to pay Rangi Chase 20-25k in league 1 I'd say they are pretty flush with cash! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 1 minute ago, OriginalMrC said: Yes you've got the jist right but that's not exactly true: https://www.rugby-league.com/article/50538/south-wales-ironmen-to-become-west-wales-raiders So they are different clubs with different owners. Don't know what point you are trying to make. You said WWR had no money to bring players in when the reality is one thing they are not lacking is money. If they can afford to pay Rangi Chase 20-25k in league 1 I'd say they are pretty flush with cash! It literally says the following, which is what I said. West Wales wasn't a new club, it was a continuation of an existing professional club. They did not just start in 2018. It's not my fault you didn't realise that. Its akin to someone arguing that Midland Hurricanes will be a different club to Coventry Bears and ignoring what has happened before that name change: South Wales Ironmen Rugby League Club have new owners after the Rugby Football League approved a takeover by Andrew Thorne, the owner of West Wales Raiders, along with the board of the Welsh Premier League club. The new ownership means that the club will move to Llanelli’s Stebonheath Park with immediate effect and will play three games in the Kingstone Press League 1 Shield at the stadium before playing there permanently from the start of the 2018 Season under the West Wales Raiders name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriginalMrC Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Damien said: It literally says the following, which is what I said. West Wales wasn't a new club, it was a continuation of an existing professional club. They did not just start in 2018. It's not my fault you didn't realise that. Its akin to someone arguing that Midland Hurricanes will be a different club to Coventry Bears and ignoring what has happened before that name change: South Wales Ironmen Rugby League Club have new owners after the Rugby Football League approved a takeover by Andrew Thorne, the owner of West Wales Raiders, along with the board of the Welsh Premier League club. The new ownership means that the club will move to Llanelli’s Stebonheath Park with immediate effect and will play three games in the Kingstone Press League 1 Shield at the stadium before playing there permanently from the start of the 2018 Season under the West Wales Raiders name. I'm bored of arguing semantics, it's clear you are not going to agree. Literally everyone in this thread talking about WWR was talking about WWR, and NOT South Wales Scorpions/Ironmen. If you want to believe they are the same club with the same levels of finance, or that lack of finance was a factor in WWR getting beat by world record scores thats entirely up to you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 (edited) 28 minutes ago, OriginalMrC said: I'm bored of arguing semantics, it's clear you are not going to agree. Literally everyone in this thread talking about WWR was talking about WWR, and NOT South Wales Scorpions/Ironmen. If you want to believe they are the same club with the same levels of finance, or that lack of finance was a factor in WWR getting beat by world record scores thats entirely up to you West Wales did not have loads of money in their first year after the move. Just because you keep saying so doesn't make it true. They had a fair number of players that stayed at the club after the move who had played for South Wales. They had others of a similar level from lower level RU after other South Wales players bailed. There wasn't all this cash to spend on decent calibre RU players. That is the point, little changed and the situation certainly didn't improve and indeed got worse, and they still couldn't attract decent RU players because they did not have the money to do so. The likes of Rangi Chase signing in 2021 and any money they now have is absolutely irrelevant to the situation in 2018 when they were getting beat by world record scores. Edited November 10, 2021 by Damien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiffers Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 I'm afraid I really have to challenge some of the thinking and conversations that have been happening on this thread. It's obvious to everyone that it is a long way to travel from the M62. Its obvious the long distance public transport network is not as good as the west coast mainline to London. But I am not sure what we are achieving by discussing lengths of time in different types of metal objects traveling at different speeds and directions. You either decide you will follow your team and make the journey to Cornwall, or you don't because it is too far. The traveling away fans is not what will make or break this for Cornwall RL. It is the clubs ability to build a following of home fans, sponsorship and raise revenues from the interactions its having with its own audiences. There's no getting away from the fact that Cornwall is a long way away from traditional heartlands of RL. But it's hardly all tiny A-roads south of Bristol and shows an immense amount of ignorance in a lot of the comments I have read. The first time you have to stop once you have hit either the M6 in Lancashire or M1 in Yorkshire is where? Truro. It is entirely motorway & dual carriageway until that point. Yes, there is traffic during peak-summer holidays. But plan your journey and accept its a long journey. How many away fans are likely to go for a day trip? I'd suggest very few people will be doing that. So where are people most likely to stay in Cornwall? Not likely to be Penryn. If fans are traveling for a long weekend or may even tie-in with a week holiday, then its not about destination Penryn and its less than idyllic industrial estate next to the rugby club. It's about the wider resorts and coastal towns in Cornwall. When it comes to the market for home support there has also been a lot of ignorant comments around populations of small towns in Cornwall. It is VERY culturally normal to live near Perranporth, do your weekly shopping in Truro and then meet friends for lunch or a pint in Falmouth as an example. That would be a round-trip of 39miles in one afternoon. Cornwall is very dispersed compared to the north of England. As such, people's behaviours are different and it is accepted you will travel further to access those facilities/events/entertainment. We (in this forum) cannot apply the same cultural norms as Rochdale to Cornwall, given the physical make-up of the county is very different. Likewise, for all of the public transport conversations, in central Cornwall (between all of the major towns) the network is actually pretty good to Penryn. The question of whether it is successful in the long run is whether Cornwall RL can attract enough people by building its brand in local communities. It's not a question of how big or small a town is and whether communities are willing to travel 10miles to a game. They travel these types of distances all the time, day-in day-out to facilitate their lives. 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 The first line of the OP states "Give Cornwall a chance".......... maybe not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Taye-Sinferno Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Interesting upbeat article in the Oldham Roughyeds news section regarding Cornwall (entitled Cornish venture could be a wow says Alex). Ignoring details of change of ownership,location etc. I have to agree with Mr C's comments re WWR and player recruitment. IMHO the Raiders made a mistake in thinking that Welsh pride and spirit could overcome the fact that the player in front of you is 2 stones heavier,2 inches taller,half a yard faster and has been playing league for years. If Cornwall go down the same "locals" route they will probably" enjoy" a similar first season that the Raiders had. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabby Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 8 hours ago, Johnoco said: The first line of the OP states "Give Cornwall a chance".......... maybe not Have they got a squad? I’m not being negative but can’t really comment if they have a chance or not without players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, Tabby said: Have they got a squad? I’m not being negative but can’t really comment if they have a chance or not without players. Let's see how it all pans out eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabby Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Just now, Johnoco said: Let's see how it all pans out eh? You can see, and let me know. Eh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 1 hour ago, Tabby said: You can see, and let me know. Eh. Er ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
audois Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 Gavin Willacy in the 'The Guardian' has his say... https://www.theguardian.com/sport/no-helmets-required/2021/nov/11/rugby-league-club-hertfordshire-canada-cornwall-hemel-stags-ottawa 1 "It involves matters much greater than drafting the new rules...the original and existing games have their own powerful appeal to their players and public and have the sentiments which history inspires" - Harold 'Jersey' Flegg 1933 "Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart." - Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959 Si tu( Remi Casty) devais envoyer un fax au Président Guasch? " Un grand bravo pour ce que vous avez fait,et merci de m 'avoir embarqué dans cette aventure" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted November 13, 2021 Share Posted November 13, 2021 First game away vs North Wales. First home game at Penryn vs Midlands Hurricanes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Future is League Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 On 08/11/2021 at 15:52, RugbyLeagueGeek said: I'm not convinced that Cornwall RLFC are 100% behind it... Time will tell. The days of signing up decent union players are long gone, and junior clubs are declining in this mythical place called the heartlands. We have to look for ne areas to get junior players from 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RugbyLeagueGeek Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 5 hours ago, The Future is League said: Time will tell. The days of signing up decent union players are long gone, and junior clubs are declining in this mythical place called the heartlands. We have to look for ne areas to get junior players from I don't believe that parachuting a League 1 club in to an area with next to no infrastructure is the best way to solve that problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommygilf Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 https://www.instagram.com/p/CWQrj52AtiJ/?utm_medium=share_sheet Home games in summer seems to be the mantra! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
northamptoncougar Posted November 14, 2021 Share Posted November 14, 2021 A lot of games at 1pm, any reason for this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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