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The Cornwall RLFC Thread


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5 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Shouldn’t this have been an RFL announcement?  I think we will see something shortly as I believe there was a meeting yesterday involving L1 clubs and Champs.

Yeah I think so. It feels like a competition announcement rather than an individual club. 

Something feels slightly off with it all tbh, feels like there are politics at play. 

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50 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Not sure about the Lowland League but the others mentioned are all at least as professional as the national division immediately above them.

The Highland League isn’t as professional as Scottish League Two, and not are the conference N/S as professional as the conference National. 

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2 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

Posters & clubs whinging about 1 trip to Cornwall,let’s hope the 3 Cumbrian clubs don’t get relegated or we’d get open revolt.& protest marches along the M62.

Those distances are not comparable in the slightest. 

Keighley seems to be the marker people are using, its 2.5hrs to the furthest Cumbrian team versus 7hrs for Penryn. 

And again, the clubs have shown they will travel to play, having done it to Canada - where the RFL sorted travel funding. 

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1 minute ago, Dave T said:

Those distances are not comparable in the slightest. 

Keighley seems to be the marker people are using, its 2.5hrs to the furthest Cumbrian team versus 7hrs for Penryn. 

And again, the clubs have shown they will travel to play, having done it to Canada - where the RFL sorted travel funding. 

But the costs of 2 or 3 trips to Cumbria is,maybe the L1 clubs should implement a Cumbrian quota.

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8 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

I mean, with even the kindest, most favourable, interpretation possible, Cornwall have no ground, no infrastructure and no development.

But only Swinton, Oldham and Rochdale need kicking for carrying on like that. With new clubs, it's 'vision'.

Cornwall were announced 2 days ago, the other three clubs have nearly 450 years of history between them.

How much value for money has been gained by giving these clubs all the money they've had over the past x number of years (since Champ/League 1 funding started)?

Some people are suggesting that Cornwall shouldn't be allowed in League 1 because these clubs, who have had around 150 years each to grow themselves into sustainable businesses, might have to pay extra travel money.

Not saying they deserve a kicking just for existing, but should they be the main factor when deciding what direction the game goes? If they have no ambition to grow beyond being a decent semi-pro club in their communities, should we be trying to restrict the semi-pro level to what they can manage, or should there be an aspiration to have a truly national game?

Unlike football or union, there's no clubs outside the heartlands that can just grow into semi pro teams and get promoted in the same way. All the clubs have to be new or nearly new because for about 100 years of Rugby League, there was very little interest in getting RL played nationally, with a few notable exceptions (London, Wales etc). And whether we like it or not, new clubs, by definition aren't going to have the same level of infrastructure as a club who's existed for 150 years and has been in receipt of central funding.

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Cornwall too far? This really shows how small time, small minded and parochial this game is. 

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"Freedom without socialism is privilege and injustice, socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality" - Mikhail Bakunin

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11 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

But the costs of 2 or 3 trips to Cumbria is,maybe the L1 clubs should implement a Cumbrian quota.

Well no, because you get 3 games for those costs. 

There is also the fact that these are known costs. They are part of the structure. 

This is a new decision that adds substantial costs at a time that funding has been decimated. 

It's a double whammy from the RFL. 

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1 minute ago, Phil said:

Cornwall too far? This really shows how small time, small minded and parochial this game is. 

Soundbites don't pay bills Phil. 

Somebody has to pay for this. That is what this is about. It won't be you or me who funds it, it'll be the owners of the other clubs. Probably out of their own pocket. 

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1 hour ago, Damien said:

These aren't the professional leagues though as I'm sure you know. If you want similar in RL then maybe the clubs that object to playing in a national competition should drop out if the professional pyramid, to leagues like the ones you cite in Football.

The National North and South clubs are mostly part time. A lot of the National league teams are also. As are the Scottish teams at that level.

It is still a National competition, just split into 2 leagues. 

We can't demand teams drop out every time someone decides to start a new team. 

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4 minutes ago, Phil said:

Cornwall too far? This really shows how small time, small minded and parochial this game is. 

The inverse also shows how small time the sport has become: believing that a wing and a prayer club playing out of a ramshackle rugby union ground in a tiny town is a vision of the future ... shows how small minded and parochial this game is.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Well no, because you get 3 games for those costs. 

There is also the fact that these are known costs. They are part of the structure. 

This is a new decision that adds substantial costs at a time that funding has been decimated. 

It's a double whammy from the RFL. 

Agree completely. Don't think people fully understand how much is costs to run a league 1 club. Many clubs have also just come out of a season with reduced revenue and face massive funding cuts next year. They have every right to have concerns about additional costs which they will have to pay. This isnt tin pot, it's about clubs having to budget extra money without any prior warning and on top of travel allowances being scrapped. 

I'm not against a Cornish team, the idea is quite exciting (even if I don't totally trust the person behind it) but had the clubs been given the heads up on this and told beforehand I doubt there'd be as much derision. 

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Just to address the broad matter of 'playing squad' which has been mentioned in several posts.

With regards to attracting established players, the lifestyle opportunities available in Cornwall will undoubtedly appeal to a great many. Not all, of course, but I am sure plenty would be drawn toward the sea and surf nature of the far South West. And, as a dad myself, I can attest to it being a great place for young families.

However, as has been stated, the intention is to draw upon local talent as much as possible.

I have seen some allude to it being a possible option for those not quite able/good enough to get on a player pathway for the Exeter Chiefs or Cornish Pirates RU. But this is a very glass-half-empty and defeatist stance. Rather, Cornwall RLFC will be there for those who are naturally suited to League and would only wither on the vine otherwise.

Over recent years I have watched my son play junior Rugby all over the county - from Launceston to St. Ives, Newquay to Fowey. One thing that has struck me is how many youngsters would flourish in League more than Union, and the club will undoubtedly offer them a meaningful outlet in due course. So very many would, if playing junior Rugby League in Hunslet, Hull, Wigan or Warrington, already be on the radar of professional clubs.

With this pathway now available, don't be at all surprised if within a decade there are several Cornish-born players at the highest level of the sport.

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7 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Well no, because you get 3 games for those costs. 

There is also the fact that these are known costs. They are part of the structure. 

This is a new decision that adds substantial costs at a time that funding has been decimated. 

It's a double whammy from the RFL. 

I guess those clubs won’t be entering the Challenge Cup in case they get an away tie in London or god forbid the Navy down in Portsmouth,the same away ties my“amateur” club have taken part in.

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3 minutes ago, ChristianB said:

Just to address the broad matter of 'playing squad' which has been mentioned in several posts.

With regards to attracting established players, the lifestyle opportunities available in Cornwall will undoubtedly appeal to a great many. Not all, of course, but I am sure plenty would be drawn toward the sea and surf nature of the far South West. And, as a dad myself, I can attest to it being a great place for young families.

However, as has been stated, the intention is to draw upon local talent as much as possible.

I have seen some allude to it being a possible option for those not quite able/good enough to get on a player pathway for the Exeter Chiefs or Cornish Pirates RU. But this is a very glass-half-empty and defeatist stance. Rather, Cornwall RLFC will be there for those who are naturally suited to League and would only wither on the vine otherwise.

Over recent years I have watched my son play junior Rugby all over the county - from Launceston to St. Ives, Newquay to Fowey. One thing that has struck me is how many youngsters would flourish in League more than Union, and the club will undoubtedly offer them a meaningful outlet in due course. So very many would, if playing junior Rugby League in Hunslet, Hull, Wigan or Warrington, already be on the radar of professional clubs.

With this pathway now available, don't be at all surprised if within a decade there are several Cornish-born players at the highest level of the sport.

Less concerned about a decade and a bit more bothered about the first game which is due in about three months.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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3 hours ago, gingerjon said:

The inverse also shows how small time the sport has become: believing that a wing and a prayer club playing out of a ramshackle rugby union ground in a tiny town is a vision of the future ... shows how small minded and parochial this game is.

Literally no one is saying they are a vision of the future,you’ve made that up,but it is a well used rod to beat clubs outside of the M62 with,remember the Toronto “saviours” of the sport used only by detractors .

Edited by Davo5
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1 hour ago, Dave T said:

The lack of travel funding is part of the bad planning. Distance means cost - it is the same point. Clubs showed with Toronto they were prepared to travel from a time point of view. 

These are not different points. 

And you appear to agree about the bad planning with your points about the time lines. 

This is the point. 

Had the RFL announced this for 2023 and given £5k travel subsidy per club it'd be hard to argue there is an issue. 

I don't think funding should be a barrier to an English team joining the professional pyramid. It shouldn't be  barrier anymore than London, Whitehaven or Newcastle. You either believe in a nationwide league or you don't. Toronto was completely different, as was Toulouse, as they were foreign teams joining the English pyramid.

I don't agree about bad planning because I haven't seen the plans. Neither have you. The devil is in the detail and we have yet to see it. A short timeframe does not mean badly planned. Similarly something can be planned for a year or more with very little done bar for 2 months. It may well be the case that they have met every demand placed on them by the RFL and they have spent 6 months dotting every i and crossing every t. It is actually the least I would expect the RFL to do as the governing body. If anyone is to blame for your concerns it is certainly not Cornwall or the people behind it, it is the RFL for what would be failing to do due diligence.

As is we just don't have that detail to judge and I'll reserve judgement until I see something more concrete.

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18 minutes ago, Niels said:

We can't demand teams drop out every time someone decides to start a new team. 

This is strawman territory. No one is demanding teams drop out. However the said teams are competing in a nationwide competition and so they either accept that and play the other teams or they don't. However if they do refuse to play they need to be prepared to accept the consequences of that decision. They should also consider if playing in a nationwide semi professional competition is for them.

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17 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Less concerned about a decade and a bit more bothered about the first game which is due in about three months.

I understand your concern given that, for you and many others, the concept of a League One club in Cornwall is 48 hours old.

However, those involved have been working to the hope of a green light for considerably longer. 

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33 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

The inverse also shows how small time the sport has become: believing that a wing and a prayer club playing out of a ramshackle rugby union ground in a tiny town is a vision of the future ... shows how small minded and parochial this game is.

Do you expect Cornwall to build their own 50,000 all seater stadium with retractable roof before they enter league one? 

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27 minutes ago, ChristianB said:

Just to address the broad matter of 'playing squad' which has been mentioned in several posts.

With regards to attracting established players, the lifestyle opportunities available in Cornwall will undoubtedly appeal to a great many. Not all, of course, but I am sure plenty would be drawn toward the sea and surf nature of the far South West. And, as a dad myself, I can attest to it being a great place for young families.

However, as has been stated, the intention is to draw upon local talent as much as possible.

I have seen some allude to it being a possible option for those not quite able/good enough to get on a player pathway for the Exeter Chiefs or Cornish Pirates RU. But this is a very glass-half-empty and defeatist stance. Rather, Cornwall RLFC will be there for those who are naturally suited to League and would only wither on the vine otherwise.

Over recent years I have watched my son play junior Rugby all over the county - from Launceston to St. Ives, Newquay to Fowey. One thing that has struck me is how many youngsters would flourish in League more than Union, and the club will undoubtedly offer them a meaningful outlet in due course. So very many would, if playing junior Rugby League in Hunslet, Hull, Wigan or Warrington, already be on the radar of professional clubs.

With this pathway now available, don't be at all surprised if within a decade there are several Cornish-born players at the highest level of the sport.

I think this is completely the right attitude to have and its got to be the long term dream. Not wanting to burst your bubble but you'll have to be prepared for a very steep learning curve. West Wales have already experienced that in recent seasons and it has been challenging for them to build a fan base as a result 

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1 hour ago, ShropshireBull said:

The principle is simple.  If you are in a national pyramid,  you travel nationally.  If you wont or cant,  get out of the national pyramid.  

 

Of course, a pyramid is wider at the base than it is at the apex. Which is why the soccer pyramid has a boatload of regional leagues five or six tiers down.

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39 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

The inverse also shows how small time the sport has become: believing that a wing and a prayer club playing out of a ramshackle rugby union ground in a tiny town is a vision of the future ... shows how small minded and parochial this game is.

Similarly clubs with 150 years of history and many years of central funding still play in ramshackle stadiums in front of a few hundred fans, shows how this game is being held back by the weakest and not driven by the strongest.

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24 minutes ago, Colin James said:

Have any of the clubs people are slagging off as insular actually made official comment on Cornwall? Or are people putting words into mouths? A journalist used Keighley as an example and now the Cougars are getting stick for it.

To be fair Keighley proposed kicking West Wales, Coventry and Skolars out of the league so I can well believe Keighley were fuming about this (though not the only club from what I gather) 

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