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The Cornwall RLFC Thread


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21 minutes ago, Damien said:

This is strawman territory. No one is demanding teams drop out. However the said teams are competing in a nationwide competition and so they either accept that and play the other teams or they don't. However if they do refuse to play they need to be prepared to accept the consequences of that decision. They should also consider if playing in a nationwide semi professional competition is for them.

We have to take into account the other 10 clubs in the league. 

What about London Skolars, West Wales? Or can they be sacrificed also now there is another new toy to play with? 

The league 1 clubs travelled to Toronto and Toulouse so they are willing given proper circumstances.

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4 minutes ago, OriginalMrC said:

To be fair Keighley proposed kicking West Wales, Coventry and Skolars out of the league so I can well believe Keighley were fuming about this (though not the only club from what I gather) 

I’d say they should join the NCL with that attitude, but they probably think Thatto Heath is too far to travel as well. 

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11 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Do you expect Cornwall to build their own 50,000 all seater stadium with retractable roof before they enter league one? 

of course not.. the roof would be optional but desirable. :kolobok_ph34r:

I do get frustrated when a new team pops up with the general black or white nature of a lot of the arguments. 

This is a good thing, more people wanting to play and watch Rugby League. It will have its challenges but then so does anything. IF It works it will be great for the game, if it does not work then it will be added to the long list. 

The problem for me is that the clubs voted to not allow a "Manchester club" into the club because it was too close to other competitors. But then if we go further a field then its too far so dont let the clubs decide on who is allowed in and who isnt as they will do that on self interest obviously (and i dont blame them). The RFL need to come up with a plan of how this is all going to work and how its all going to come together.. lets call it a 3-5 year plan and a 10 year plan that work in harmony, you know, like a business would... madness i know.. At that point we can all understand where this is coming from. 

Cornwall may well be a great idea and work fantastically well but it does smack a little of someone having an idea and some cash so lets just chuck it in and hope for the best. I hope I am wrong though and it is more like Newcastle which seemed to have a plan for the future right from the start.. if that is a case then Cornwall will work well IMHO. 

As GJ has said before 20 years ago we had what seemed like a plan for the rest of the country and for bringing clubs through the system.. I played in it and it was great NL3 was a good idea poorly executed IMHO, the RLC and everything that went with it worked really well but the impetus seems to have gone from it when the funding for DOs disappeared.. We seemed to have a joined up plan but we dont seem to have that now and IMHO thats where a large part of the frustration with "new clubs" is coming from. 

Good luck to Cornwall.. I love and always push expansion and i hope it works. I just wish the RFL would be as passionate as many on here (including GJ) are about expansion and back it with a plan (not asking for loads of cash BTW but a plan would be a good start.. from that we may even see outside investment to help it.. heaven forbid!)

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1 minute ago, Niels said:

We have to take into account the other 10 clubs in the league. 

What about London Skolars, West Wales? Or can they be sacrificed also now there is another new toy to play with? 

The league 1 clubs travelled to Toronto and Toulouse so they are willing given proper circumstances.

Again no one has demanded that teams need to drop out or be sacrificed. That is a really strange slant to take.

We are not talking about a foreign team entering the English pyramid and clubs being wary. We are talking about an English team.

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55 minutes ago, OriginalMrC said:

Agree completely. Don't think people fully understand how much is costs to run a league 1 club. Many clubs have also just come out of a season with reduced revenue and face massive funding cuts next year. They have every right to have concerns about additional costs which they will have to pay. This isnt tin pot, it's about clubs having to budget extra money without any prior warning and on top of travel allowances being scrapped. 

I'm not against a Cornish team, the idea is quite exciting (even if I don't totally trust the person behind it) but had the clubs been given the heads up on this and told beforehand I doubt there'd be as much derision. 

Exactly right . Cornwall , great go for it , good luck , that’s not the issue .Its in correlation with a huge slashing of funding for clubs struggling by anyway , and with apparently no consultation . Clubs are bound to have concerns and questions 

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On 02/11/2021 at 19:06, Ray Cashmere said:

Transparency is going to be key if this is to get the buy in from fellow League 1 clubs/ the wider rugby league community.

 

Is an agreement in place for the club to move into Stadium for Cornwall upon its completion?

What is the club's plans for grassroots and junior rugby league in the region?

What discussions have taken place with key regional stakeholders (Cornish Pirates, Cornwall Council, Exeter Uni etc)? 

What is the strategy for player recruitment? Local union players, existing League 1 players, mixture of both? 

 

I'd love this to work but, for it to, the RFL must have done their due diligence and be able to present a business case to more sceptical members.

Regarding the player recruitment, I would guess that it will most likely be a mixture of both, with possible recruitment for any local amateurs in the area from Devon and surrounding towns/cities.

 

I agree with you about having to present a decent business case.

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1 hour ago, Dave T said:

Yeah I think so. It feels like a competition announcement rather than an individual club. 

Something feels slightly off with it all tbh, feels like there are politics at play. 

Why does a club who hasn't played since Hemel last did, still have the power to do what they want? 

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12 minutes ago, DavidM said:

Exactly right . Cornwall , great go for it , good luck , that’s not the issue .Its in correlation with a huge slashing of funding for clubs struggling by anyway , and with apparently no consultation . Clubs are bound to have concerns and questions 

Funding cuts or not let's not pretend that exactly the same debate wouldn't have happened with exactly the same complaints and arguments against their conclusion. 

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3 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

Why does a club who hasn't played since Hemel last did, still have the power to do what they want? 

Let's phrase that another way.

Why do clubs who have achieved pretty much nothing since the formation of the Northern Union and bring very little to the table apart from sentimentality, have the power to drag the game down to their level? 

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1 hour ago, Dave T said:

Yeah I think so. It feels like a competition announcement rather than an individual club. 

Something feels slightly off with it all tbh, feels like there are politics at play. 

I'm not sure what you mean. This was on the RFL website at the same time. I can't see how it's any different to the way these kinds of things have been done in the past:

2 Nov 2021

Cornwall RLFC to join Betfred League 1 in 2022

Cornwall Rugby League Football Club (RLFC) have received approval from the Rugby Football League (RFL) to compete in Betfred League 1 for the 2022 campaign.

Simon Johnson, the RFL Chair, said:

“The RFL Board have approved the club’s request to relocate as it takes the Betfred League One competition, and the sport of Rugby League, into a new area, which shares many of the characteristics of the traditional Rugby League heartlands in the north, and has a renowned passion for rugby. This is an exciting opportunity to take our great sport to a completely new audience in a beautiful part of the country, and for our clubs and supporters to embrace that.”

https://www.rugby-league.com/article/36229/cornwall-rlfc-to-join-betfred-league-1-in-2022

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4 minutes ago, Damien said:

Funding cuts or not let's not pretend that exactly the same debate wouldn't have happened with exactly the same complaints and arguments against their conclusion. 

League one is the league with teams from all over , and has had Oxford , Gloucester etc in recent teams . The funding is central here 

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3 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

I don't think its unrealistic for these clubs to be unhappy. If they were football clubs they would be what, 7th 8th tier size at best most of them currently? And that is regionalised.

Our folly is pretending that these clubs can be national league teams in their current setup. Form a League 2 North for the clubs that don't want to travel nationally so they can progress to the serious national leagues when they are able to.

Precisely this. 

Comparing Rugby League's third tier with 'what professional football does' is a misdirection.

For starters, clubs in football's third tier are full time. Doncaster Rovers receive just over £1.3 million pounds in Sky 'solidarity payments. Outside the 'giants' of Sunderland, Sheffield Wednesday, Ipswich and Bolton who all pull in big crowds - third tier clubs have an average attendance of around 6,500.

League two clubs don't offer much more of a comparison. Again: full time, in 2019/20 Rochdale received a total of £1,220,000 of Premier League Funding. The average attendance in football's fourth tier is around the 4,000 mark.

For a more accurate view, you have to look at football clubs similar in status and support to a League 1 Rugby League Club.

For that you have to look down as far as football's Tier Six - for example Curzon Ashton (Tameside) and Bradford Park Avenue (W.Yorkshire). Both 'Northern' and semi-professional, they average crowds of 450 and 500 respectively - and they play in the regionalised National League North. Regionalised to help reduce the logistics and cost impacts on clubs with limited resources.
 

Edited by Billy King's Boots
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1 minute ago, DavidM said:

League one is the league with teams from all over , and has had Oxford , Gloucester etc in recent teams . The funding is central here 

As I said, and you've been here long enough, that this thread would have turned out exactly the same. Funding cuts are just another stick to add to the standard range of attacks.

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1 minute ago, Damien said:

As I said, and you've been here long enough, that this thread would have turned out exactly the same. Funding cuts are just another stick to add to the standard range of attacks.

Maybe so . For what it’s worth on the issue  itself personally I understand the concerns of clubs around funding and budgets but I also completely welcome a new arrival and wish them all the very best , and hope it grows roots . That can only be a positive 

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1 hour ago, Damien said:

I don't think funding should be a barrier to an English team joining the professional pyramid. It shouldn't be  barrier anymore than London, Whitehaven or Newcastle. You either believe in a nationwide league or you don't. Toronto was completely different, as was Toulouse, as they were foreign teams joining the English pyramid.

I don't agree about bad planning because I haven't seen the plans. Neither have you. The devil is in the detail and we have yet to see it. A short timeframe does not mean badly planned. Similarly something can be planned for a year or more with very little done bar for 2 months. It may well be the case that they have met every demand placed on them by the RFL and they have spent 6 months dotting every i and crossing every t. It is actually the least I would expect the RFL to do as the governing body. If anyone is to blame for your concerns it is certainly not Cornwall or the people behind it, it is the RFL for what would be failing to do due diligence.

As is we just don't have that detail to judge and I'll reserve judgement until I see something more concrete.

Agreed on the last line, we are where we are and we'll have to see how it plays out.

To pick up on the one point in bold - we know they haven't, as Perez himself aid he has been working on this for the last 4 or 5 months. And to clarify my point - when I say bad planning, I don't just mean by Perez - I mainly mean by the RFL (the 'game') - the lack of funding - so your point in that paragraph is exactly the one I am making. Cornwall should succeed or fail based on themselves, that is within their control - if Perez can get a club set up in a few short months, good on him - it is absolutely the RFL who haven't set this up for success.

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2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

I mean, with even the kindest, most favourable, interpretation possible, Cornwall have no ground, no infrastructure and no development.

But only Swinton, Oldham and Rochdale need kicking for carrying on like that. With new clubs, it's 'vision'.

TBF, Rochdale Hornets also have a women's team, a wheelchair team, community coaching/development though the Hornets Sporting Foundation and a Cat.3 Academy at Hopwood Hall College.

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1 hour ago, Davo5 said:

I guess those clubs won’t be entering the Challenge Cup in case they get an away tie in London or god forbid the Navy down in Portsmouth,the same away ties my“amateur” club have taken part in.

Again, these are known costs (or risks to your cost line). 

A new random club announcing that they are joining the league without a peep from the RFL hardly suggests this is well planned and thought out.

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14 minutes ago, Damien said:

I'm not sure what you mean. This was on the RFL website at the same time. I can't see how it's any different to the way these kinds of things have been done in the past:

2 Nov 2021

Cornwall RLFC to join Betfred League 1 in 2022

Cornwall Rugby League Football Club (RLFC) have received approval from the Rugby Football League (RFL) to compete in Betfred League 1 for the 2022 campaign.

Simon Johnson, the RFL Chair, said:

“The RFL Board have approved the club’s request to relocate as it takes the Betfred League One competition, and the sport of Rugby League, into a new area, which shares many of the characteristics of the traditional Rugby League heartlands in the north, and has a renowned passion for rugby. This is an exciting opportunity to take our great sport to a completely new audience in a beautiful part of the country, and for our clubs and supporters to embrace that.”

https://www.rugby-league.com/article/36229/cornwall-rlfc-to-join-betfred-league-1-in-2022

Yes, fair shout, I didn't see that at the same time.

There are calls that the clubs haven't been consulted, which is out of kilter with previous initiatives, but that is a lot of hearsay from journos.

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56 minutes ago, OriginalMrC said:

I think this is completely the right attitude to have and its got to be the long term dream. Not wanting to burst your bubble but you'll have to be prepared for a very steep learning curve. West Wales have already experienced that in recent seasons and it has been challenging for them to build a fan base as a result 

I don't think anyone is under any illusion that there are challenges. But there are also so many positives in the medium to long that the balance lies in its favour.

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9 minutes ago, DavidM said:

Maybe so . For what it’s worth on the issue  itself personally I understand the concerns of clubs around funding and budgets but I also completely welcome a new arrival and wish them all the very best , and hope it grows roots . That can only be a positive 

I agree with this. 

My concern around this is that it is another example of something being done poorly, rushed and under-funded. These are things that catch us out time and time again, and they are the reason we have failure after failure. A lot of people applauding this are the ones who are often most critical of RFL incompetence, but seem happy to ignore it in instances like this. 

On the positive, I am intrigued to see what Perez can do in a different scenario. He talks a good game and did a lot of good things with Toronto, so I'm fascinated to see how he does here. To give him credit, he isn't taking the easy option, so good luck to him and Cornwall RLFC.

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24 minutes ago, Billy King's Boots said:

Precisely this. 

Comparing Rugby League's third tier with 'what professional football does' is a misdirection.

For starters, clubs in football's third tier are full time. Doncaster Rovers receive just over £1.3 million pounds in Sky 'solidarity payments. Outside the 'giants' of Sunderland, Sheffield Wednesday, Ipswich and Bolton who all pull in big crowds - third tier clubs have an average attendance of around 6,500.

League two clubs don't offer much more of a comparison. Again: full time, in 2019/20 Rochdale received a total of £1,220,000 of Premier League Funding. The average attendance in football's fourth tier is around the 4,000 mark.

For a more accurate view, you have to look at football clubs similar in status and support to a League 1 Rugby League Club.

For that you have to look down as far as football's Tier Six - for example Curzon Ashton (Tameside) and Bradford Park Avenue (W.Yorkshire). Both 'Northern' and semi-professional, they average crowds of 450 and 500 respectively - and they play in the regionalised National League North. Regionalised to help reduce the logistics and cost impacts on clubs with limited resources.
 

And a club like Rochdale's wage bill at that time was over £3 million. Yes Football has greater income but outgoing are far, far more. As you said misdirection.

I played in amateur national competitions. At University I travelled to Durham, Newcastle, London, Cardiff amongst other places all in the same season. Indeed I don't think that any journey was less than 2hrs. Journeys to London and Cardiff were easily more than 5 or 6 hours with a short stop. If poor students can organise, fund and pay for that it really shouldn't be beyond the wit of a semi professional RL team to do it once a season.

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36 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Again, these are known costs (or risks to your cost line). 

A new random club announcing that they are joining the league without a peep from the RFL hardly suggests this is well planned and thought out.

Its not a random new club, just the relocation of a franchise.. 

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26 minutes ago, Damien said:

And a club like Rochdale's wage bill at that time was over £3 million. Yes Football has greater income but outgoing are far, far more. As you said misdirection.

I played in amateur national competitions. At University I travelled to Durham, Newcastle, London, Cardiff amongst other places all in the same season. Indeed I don't think that any journey was less than 2hrs. Journeys to London and Cardiff were easily more than 5 or 6 hours with a short stop. If poor students can organise, fund and pay for that it really shouldn't be beyond the wit of a semi professional RL team to do it once a season.

Genuine Q about this as I can't find an immediate answer.

Do the RFL give a grant to BUCS for 'running' university rugby league? I can see that other NGBs do but not one from the RFL.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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