The Cornwall RLFC Thread

[Scubby]

Just now, Eddie said:

There’s also a difference between objectively analysing somethings chances with very little information to go on and blatant sneering. 

Yes hopefully that has tempered down

[gazza77]

 

[DoubleD]

If the stadium for Cornwall goes ahead, having 3 teams play out the one stadium could be tricky. They'd have to have an artificial pitch to prevent the fatties churning it up

[ShropshireBull]

9 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

If the stadium for Cornwall goes ahead, having 3 teams play out the one stadium could be tricky. They'd have to have an artificial pitch to prevent the fatties churning it up

Yep cant see Truro ever making the FL even if they get a couple of thousand fans so should be fine for a 3g pitch.  

[RigbyLuger]

Cornwall as a concept = no problem at all.

Perez as the man behind it = massive alarm bells and he's not the only one in the sport who keeps popping up, despite the lack of success.

[Ivarr the Boneless]

Truro were very bullish about targeting the league s few seasons ago. Then they hit problems and had to play at Torquay for a while, got relegated etc.

It's not beyond the realms of impossibility they'll dream bigger if the new stadium comes off. By which time we may see the Football League accepting some non grass pitches. There is increasing pressure as clubs ripping up existing pitches to install grass are often ripping up big community outreach schemes too, which isn't a great look for the Football League. Artificial pitches would also help the viability of some existing clubs.

 

[gingerjon]

Just now, Ivarr the Boneless said:

Truro were very bullish about targeting the league s few seasons ago. Then they hit problems and had to play at Torquay for a while, got relegated etc.

It's not beyond the realms of impossibility they'll dream bigger if the new stadium comes off. By which time we may see the Football League accepting some non grass pitches. There is increasing pressure as clubs ripping up existing pitches to install grass are often ripping up big community outreach schemes too, which isn't a great look for the Football League. Artificial pitches would also help the viability of some existing clubs.

 

I've seen Truro away a couple of times. Biggest travelling support for any club I've seen at that level - local derbies aside.

The reality for them is the same as for pretty much any other semi professional operation. Costs every other weekend are going to add up - and if many/all of your players aren't local then there will be issues around training/travel expenses even on home weekends.

The issue about artificial pitches is one that is just weird. Don't understand the Football League/Premier League continued objections.

[iffleyox]

48 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

If the stadium for Cornwall goes ahead, having 3 teams play out the one stadium could be tricky. They'd have to have an artificial pitch to prevent the fatties churning it up

And it's basically Cornish Pirates RU that have been making the running on the stadium (and a lot of what money there is) - so they're the ones who need to be convinced that RL makes sense, not a stadco.

[iffleyox]

29 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

The issue about artificial pitches is one that is just weird. Don't understand the Football League/Premier League continued objections.

As a complete aside, I've long thought that FL/PL have accidentally (and for whatever reason) ended up in the right place on it though. I suspect that after head injuries the next big story to hit is going to be some combination of injuries from artificial pitches, and potential carcinogens. I'm not convinced they're actually safe over the long term, and glad I'm not playing anymore to find out.

Actually I see in the last 2 months the European Commission has cracked down on it again, so there's an issue there somewhere:

https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/europe-raises-the-bar-for-carcinogens-in-artificial-turf-pitches/4014144.article

Edited November 3, 2021 by iffleyox

[Scubby]

52 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

If the stadium for Cornwall goes ahead, having 3 teams play out the one stadium could be tricky. They'd have to have an artificial pitch to prevent the fatties churning it up

You would assume it would have to be a 4G pitch to get the funding and incorporate community use etc.

[gingerjon]

12 minutes ago, Scubby said:

You would assume it would have to be a 4G pitch to get the funding and incorporate community use etc.

Most (all?) grounds that get such funding now seem to at least feature a 4G training area (often multiple areas) even if the main pitch is grass*.

 

* grass that isn't often more technologically advanced than the plastic pitch next door

[Davo5]

6 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Most (all?) grounds that get such funding now seem to at least feature a 4G training area (often multiple areas) even if the main pitch is grass*.

 

* grass that isn't often more technologically advanced than the plastic pitch next door

Leave the 4G for training on,it’s awful for real games.

[Derwent]

3 hours ago, Scubby said:

My guess is that they will sign half a dozen Queensland Cup level Australian players on full-time contracts and then build a team around them with locals and a few loans from SL clubs. That would make them reasonably competitive in League 1 pretty quickly IMO - especially if your experience is 1,6,7,9 and a couple of good forwards.

They're going to need to be pretty cashed up to do that. I think the minimum salary to get a T2 sportsperson visa now is around £22,000 a year, plus overseas players generally want accommodation, flights, NHS medical treatment tariffs covered etc as part of their deal. Unless they're going to go down the Celtic Crusaders "tourist visa" route, and we all know how that panned out.

[The Future is League]

18 hours ago, Gav Wilson said:

 

 

 

Give Cornwall a chance. If it works, we have a brand new catchment area and a few thousand new Rugby League fans. If it doesn't, what have we really lost in the grand scheme of things?

Hopefully increase the player and fan base, and bring new sponsors on board

[Tommygilf]

The hybrid pitches are the future.

Grass in a lattice of astro turf so that the pitch keeps its strength in difficult conditions. I believe its at Twickenham and most premier league grounds now because it is good for drainage (its installation was also why top gear were able to play rugby with cars at Twickenham on the old pitch if you believe internet rumour).

[Johnoco]

2 hours ago, Scubby said:

Good post. Some don't want to hear it Jon but this is the harsh reality.  People need to realise there is a difference between rooting for a project and objectively analysing its chances. The hidden costs and logistics for the start up here could be eye watering. Without knowing how well backed it is you have to be realistic.

I am rooting for these guys but I am a realist too.

Scubster, I don't see anyone getting carried away and claiming Cornwall will be winning the GF in 5 years. 

Pretty much everyone is just saying "good luck and welcome and let's see how it goes". 

It isn't costing me or you a cent, so I don't see why the need to pee on their parade. If it doesn't work out, so be it. 

[Scubby]

29 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Scubster, I don't see anyone getting carried away and claiming Cornwall will be winning the GF in 5 years. 

Pretty much everyone is just saying "good luck and welcome and let's see how it goes". 

It isn't costing me or you a cent, so I don't see why the need to pee on their parade. If it doesn't work out, so be it. 

I am trying to evaluate both sides. I am an optimist and this stuff warms my heart among the less fun things that are going on. But I am also understanding of the "pull the other one" responses as so many things we do in RL look promising and ultimately get shot down.

For this one, the key is the links with the area - it is a unique place in the country and could tap into something special. The challenge we have is the there isn't the will in the game to support it with action - like cutting the travel grant for L1 clubs etc. It always seems to be good luck but you are on your own mate!

Perez clearly loves the sport and thinks outside the box. His vision for Toronto was maybe a couple of good years away from taking off. Covid was an earthquake that no one could have foreseen. 

Edited November 3, 2021 by Scubby

[ShropshireBull]

Just on the numbers , they probably need to spend around 500,000 a year on players so you are looking at an investment of a couple of million before you even get near the SL. 

Sponsors and maybe 500 season tickets sold might get a dent in that but they will be lucky to be bringing in 150,000 a season at L1. Champ is 100k per club so maybe 300,000 a season. This all pretty much rests on that stadium coming into existence AND being able to generate revenue from the ground (none of this pay rent but you don´t keep any from bar or generate rev) otherwise it is worthless.

We should wish them well.  

[ShropshireBull]

4 minutes ago, Scubby said:

I am trying to evaluate both sides. I am an optimist and this stuff warms my heart among the less fun things that are going on. But I am also understanding of the "pull the other one" responses as so many things we do in RL look promising and ultimately get shot down.

For this one, the key is the links with the area - it is a unique place in the country and could tap into something special. The challenge we have is the there isn't the will in the game to support it with action - like cutting the travel grant for L1 clubs etc. It always seems to be good luck but you are on your own mate!

Perez clearly loves the sport and thinks outside the box. His vision for Toronto was maybe a couple of good years away from taking off. Covid was an earthquake that no one could have foreseen. 

I am much more a fan of let people in and good luck to you rather than as we said to Manchester (where a 6500 capacity stadium is sitting unused next to the same base the RFL have) that ´no´. Come in, climb the leagues and good luck to you. 

[Eddie]

2 hours ago, RigbyLuger said:

Cornwall as a concept = no problem at all.

Perez as the man behind it = massive alarm bells and he's not the only one in the sport who keeps popping up, despite the lack of success.

What’s his failure, the only thing you can say he’s failed at is getting Ottawa into L1, but personally I’d blame the pandemic for that rather than him. 

[Izmir Zaferi]

3 hours ago, RigbyLuger said:

Cornwall as a concept = no problem at all.

Perez as the man behind it = massive alarm bells and he's not the only one in the sport who keeps popping up, despite the lack of success.

Can you give any justification for such? 

 

He launched Toronto and was functionally pushed out by Argyle. The relaunched club recently got nearly 2000 to a game v Washington. He then used his own money to buy Hemels licence. Unfortunately, the RFL clubs and Covid have ended any chance of cross Atlantic competition. 

Which part of this journey is a significant problem?

[gavin7094]

55 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

 

Sponsors and maybe 500 season tickets sold might get a dent in that but they will be lucky to be bringing in 150,000 a season at L1. 

We should wish them well.  

500 season tickets?  Where do you get that from? 

One thing I haven't seen mentioned anywhere is whether there is any appetite for rugby league from local people.  Just some noise about it being "like the North because it's a bit deprived and has mining and fishing" etc.

Sincere best wishes to them but we have learned in the past that you can't just wish things into existence.

However,  hope they are still around in 10 years.  Can only be good for the game if they are. 

 

Edited November 3, 2021 by gavin7094

[Dave T]

4 hours ago, Eddie said:

There’s also a difference between objectively analysing somethings chances with very little information to go on and blatant sneering. 

I don't think that's fair. GJ is using his posting style to make his point strongly, but I certainly wouldn't describe it as sneering. 

And your point about 'very little info to go on' is sort of the point. At the moment they appear to be a logo and a ground hire contract. 

In the absence of any more detail the questions about travel, players, costs, fanbase etc are all valid, and there is nothing positive that has been presented on that yet, so it is perfectly fine to use what we know (that they will be a club who are massively geographically isolated with no RL pathway for hours). 

Now, Perez and whoever he gets on board have the chance to prove the doubters wrong, but calling out cynicism based on what we know so far is reasonable. It is also reasonable to challenge that and sya give it time, but as this is a forum, it sort of makes the thread redundant. 

I have plenty of reservations about this - people need to stop dismissing the geography point - only a few weeks ago we were hearing that L1 may not even exist as funding reductions are crippling clubs, and now a club has been admitted that will add substantial costs at this level (people should just look at the costs and schedules of flights instead of making out it is the easy solution). Hopefully there is a solution in place to support this, but additional costs of probably £50k+ have been added in at a time that funding has reduced by c£500k. People can call that thinking small time but it won't be them paying this, they just expect others to do it for their hobby. 

On the flip side of this, I find stuff like this exciting, it will be fascinating to watch, but I dont have to fund it. It'll be interesting to see Perez' approach and who he gets bought into this. And ultimately, as far as I'm concerned, anybody who wants to play RL should be welcomed - but I hope the RFL have done their due diligence before allowing a new club into the 3rd tier. There has to be some standards. 

I hope any concerns vanish quickly and Peeez has a strong plan. 

[Johnoco]

57 minutes ago, Scubby said:

I am trying to evaluate both sides. I am an optimist and this stuff warms my heart among the less fun things that are going on. But I am also understanding of the "pull the other one" responses as so many things we do in RL look promising and ultimately get shot down.

For this one, the key is the links with the area - it is a unique place in the country and could tap into something special. The challenge we have is the there isn't the will in the game to support it with action - like cutting the travel grant for L1 clubs etc. It always seems to be good luck but you are on your own mate!

Perez clearly loves the sport and thinks outside the box. His vision for Toronto was maybe a couple of good years away from taking off. Covid was an earthquake that no one could have foreseen. 

Good points and I am as realistic as they come. But I don't think dismissing somebody out of hand is caution, it's pretty unreasonable. Perez could have an easier life not involved in RL, I'm sure if he didn't love the game and want to see it spread he would be doing something else. 

I remember seeing him on BBC 1 breakfast TV (wearing The Who t-shirt) and it was like a breath of fresh air. Maybe not everything went smoothly but that's no reason to label him some sort of conman. (Not you) 

[Scubby]

2 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Good points and I am as realistic as they come. But I don't think dismissing somebody out of hand is caution, it's pretty unreasonable. Perez could have an easier life not involved in RL, I'm sure if he didn't love the game and want to see it spread he would be doing something else. 

I remember seeing him on BBC 1 breakfast TV (wearing The Who t-shirt) and it was like a breath of fresh air. Maybe not everything went smoothly but that's no reason to label him some sort of conman. (Not you) 

I met him once at a SL game and he tried to sell me a Tissot watch.