gingerjon Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 1 hour ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said: Incidentally, large numbers of amateur clubs only started entering in the mid 90s by the looks of things. Before then, a handful of amateur clubs took part, but that was it. Yes. This has to be pointed out every year. It was a handful, at most, for most years until the 1990s. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derwent Parker Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 1 hour ago, RP London said: That would probably be the only way to do it I would guess, but you would be adding fixtures to their season which may be fine but may not.. that would be a question for those clubs really about player welfare and how long a season can be etc. Think L1 teams would be delighted with a few added fixtures as long as not midweek. Li only have an 18match season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RP London Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 1 hour ago, Derwent Parker said: Think L1 teams would be delighted with a few added fixtures as long as not midweek. Li only have an 18match season you would think they would but i'm not betting the house on anything at the moment knowing how RL clubs can look at things! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Kevin Sinfield Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 28 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said: We are cutting their funding, least we can do is give Hunslet chance to get Leeds, Leigh chance at Wigan and the joy of the cup is shocks can happen. Even if there is only one shock, that´s all we need. Those clubs can still meet when Super League sides enter the competition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Prophet Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 5 hours ago, Eddie said: I prefer the traditional knock out format personally, and how would championship and L1 teams who made it fit the extra games in? Where there is a will… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Prophet Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 5 hours ago, Eddie said: I prefer the traditional knock out format personally, and how would championship and L1 teams who made it fit the extra games in? That being the case, then there is no point bemoaning the fact that it only takes three wins to get a SL team a final berth. Unless you want SL teams fielding second string teams and/or bashing Champ and L1 teams by 80 in the earlier rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Prophet Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 43 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said: We are cutting their funding, least we can do is give Hunslet chance to get Leeds, Leigh chance at Wigan and the joy of the cup is shocks can happen. Even if there is only one shock, that´s all we need. But they don’t. This isn’t soccer where teams can snatch an unlikely 1-0 or 2-1 win. Its RL. Those teams will get pummeled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 40 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said: That being the case, then there is no point bemoaning the fact that it only takes three wins to get a SL team a final berth. Unless you want SL teams fielding second string teams and/or bashing Champ and L1 teams by 80 in the earlier rounds. I’d prefer that to groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RugbyLeagueGeek Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 5 minutes ago, Eddie said: I’d prefer that to groups. I think the problem with knockout formats is that times have changed and it doesn't have the same commercial viability as it used to. There's too much uncertainty involved, and it makes it difficult to budget around. If a knockout format was commercially viable, then Toulouse presumably would have wanted to participate. Ultimately, there's a reason why the Champions League has moved from its original knockout format to the current group format. There is a certain amount of romance attached to a knockout comp, but I'm not sure it is the best way to serve the competition or the wider game anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sports Prophet Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 26 minutes ago, Eddie said: I’d prefer that to groups. Fair enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anita Bath Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 7 hours ago, Eddie said: I prefer the traditional knock out format personally, and how would championship and L1 teams who made it fit the extra games in? Definitely….oh for the days of the 32 team straight knock out wehad in the 1960s and 1970s. No seeding so you could have wigan v saints in round 1. 5 games to win the cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derwent Parker Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 On 11/11/2021 at 17:01, Sports Prophet said: But they don’t. This isn’t soccer where teams can snatch an unlikely 1-0 or 2-1 win. Its RL. Those teams will get pummeled. Maybe - but hopefully those teams would gain on the gate money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowes Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 On 11/11/2021 at 13:41, gingerjon said: Yes. This has to be pointed out every year. It was a handful, at most, for most years until the 1990s. Yes, either 2 or 4 amateur clubs depending on when you defined the Challenge Cup as starting. The winners of four county cups (Lancashire, Yorkshire, Cumbria and London) all played a preliminary round and the two winners of that round entered the challenge cup main draw with the professional sides. There was a Trophy as well which had the professional teams and the two finalists of the BARLA National Cup in (though in the later seasons it also had NCL premier division teams and French teams). The expansion of the Challenge Cup to include more amateur sides was part of the peace deal between the RFL and BARLA in 1993 (when the National Conference League was founded, though there had been a BARLA National League before then). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marklaspalmas Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 That is the recent history. In the early days of the Challenge cup there were dozens of non league clubs involved playing over a number of preliminary rounds. A bit like the FA Cup. I'm not sure when those numbers started to dwindle https://www.fevarchive.co.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 19 minutes ago, marklaspalmas said: I'm not sure when those numbers started to dwindle Going by Wikipedia - so not a perfect science - it looks like it was limited to a small number of qualifiers to get up to 32 teams well before the First World War, having been more 'open' in the very early years. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spidey Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 1 hour ago, marklaspalmas said: That is the recent history. In the early days of the Challenge cup there were dozens of non league clubs involved playing over a number of preliminary rounds. A bit like the FA Cup. I'm not sure when those numbers started to dwindle When the amateur season was in the Winter the early rounds were in the middle of that season there was a much larger take up, NCL clubs for instance were all obliged to enter, with the move to summer, tv dates etc for the later rounds have driven the earlier rounds to pre-season, and it became more optional Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marklaspalmas Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 14 minutes ago, Spidey said: When the amateur season was in the Winter the early rounds were in the middle of that season there was a much larger take up, NCL clubs for instance were all obliged to enter, with the move to summer, tv dates etc for the later rounds have driven the earlier rounds to pre-season, and it became more optional Forget me. I read your post wrong https://www.fevarchive.co.uk/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowes Posted November 16, 2021 Share Posted November 16, 2021 1 hour ago, gingerjon said: Going by Wikipedia - so not a perfect science - it looks like it was limited to a small number of qualifiers to get up to 32 teams well before the First World War, having been more 'open' in the very early years. Apparently before BARLA formed in the 1970s they had regional qualifying rounds to reduce the number of amateur clubs to two. I don't know any more details than that, I just remember being told it by one of the older posters on here once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anita Bath Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 i think it was the champions of the lancashire cup and the yorkshire cup , not the ones the semi pros played for but the amateur versions. Cumbrian team,s played in the lancs competition i think. i recall mayfield getting so close several times and then finally made it (1975 maybe) where they ran the then New Hunslet very close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowes Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 11 hours ago, Anita Bath said: i think it was the champions of the lancashire cup and the yorkshire cup , not the ones the semi pros played for but the amateur versions. Cumbrian team,s played in the lancs competition i think. i recall mayfield getting so close several times and then finally made it (1975 maybe) where they ran the then New Hunslet very close. Cumbrian clubs played in the Lancashire Cup to begin with but later got their own county cup. In 1982 according to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BARLA_Cumbria_Cup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Kevin Sinfield Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 On 11/11/2021 at 17:45, RugbyLeagueGeek said: I think the problem with knockout formats is that times have changed and it doesn't have the same commercial viability as it used to. There's too much uncertainty involved, and it makes it difficult to budget around. If a knockout format was commercially viable, then Toulouse presumably would have wanted to participate. Ultimately, there's a reason why the Champions League has moved from its original knockout format to the current group format. There is a certain amount of romance attached to a knockout comp, but I'm not sure it is the best way to serve the competition or the wider game anymore. Agree with this, Challenge Cup games are so poorly attended until the Semi Final and Final we should have group games that can be included in season ticket prices until those later rounds, commercially it makes sense, as a game we need to start making decisions with our heads not nostalgic hearts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcentre21 Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 When is the draw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 5 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said: Agree with this, Challenge Cup games are so poorly attended until the Semi Final and Final we should have group games that can be included in season ticket prices until those later rounds, commercially it makes sense, as a game we need to start making decisions with our heads not nostalgic hearts. Group games included in season ticket prices will be a loss maker for no benefit. Drama-free round-robin games that will be deathly on TV and that nobody will want to attend. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Kevin Sinfield Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 25 minutes ago, gingerjon said: Group games included in season ticket prices will be a loss maker for no benefit. Drama-free round-robin games that will be deathly on TV and that nobody will want to attend. A season ticket including group Challenge Cup games would have more value and sell for a higher price, meaning those games that are currently poorly attended and loss makers would have the same value as a Super League game. Groups in the cup has worked for Rugby Union and Football, why not Rugby League? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scubby Posted November 17, 2021 Share Posted November 17, 2021 On 11/11/2021 at 08:14, BridBeachRL said: Cornwall have got 11 weeks this weekend to assemble a squad ready for their 1st fixture. When 2 of those weekends are Christmas Day and New Year's day doesn't leave too much prep time! It's more time than Michael Caine had on Escape to Victory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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