‘A £100m offer could be made next month’

[M j M]

2 minutes ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

Bottom line is clubs that have not bothered upgrading their stadiums should be kicked out Castleford and Wakefield have had years and done nothing.

If I was SKY i would cover the absolute minimum of matches.

Their stadiums (For want of a better word) are an embarrassment for  the sport.

We've been over this time and time again -

Cas and Wakey have been anything other than "not bothered" about upgrading. The amount of time and legal costs those two clubs have incurred trying to get deals over the line will be eye-watering.

Sky aren't particularly driving this. Certainly they prefer showing games at Cas compared to Huddersfield for example.

[voteronniegibbs]

.

[idrewthehaggis]

4 hours ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

Bottom line is clubs that have not bothered upgrading their stadiums should be kicked out Castleford and Wakefield have had years and done nothing.

If I was SKY i would cover the absolute minimum of matches.

Their stadiums (For want of a better word) are an embarrassment for  the sport.

Well I actually feel more sorrow for Cas and Wakey's supporters for having to endure their crumbling wrecks, 

There is a many a grim occurrence watching Salford, especially when you lose and the every half an hour bus fails to turns up on a rainy night in Barton.

But non would descend to the despairing levels experienced beside the medieval trenches of urine cascading energetically in Mid Yorkshire. Putting a new meaning to the word "tang."

I remember when Cas outbid SRD for Danny Richardson and Niall Evalds and concluded that perhaps more fool Salford for moving to a brand new place that just costs and not much else, than gaining a financial advantage from having a smelly rotten kip that generates money.

The quicker senior RL clubs own/run their grounds and derive significant income from them, the better for all. 

 

[GUBRATS]

4 hours ago, Dave T said:

I think there's a lot of nostalgia at play tbh, particularly when it comes to Wire. Wilderspool was like a library for a standard game tbh. The Halliwell Jones is far better imho. 

Wasnt it just , stupid black glass pool hall down one side , remember our last visit in the Cup in 2001 , good day out that

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

7 hours ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

Bottom line is clubs that have not bothered upgrading their stadiums should be kicked out Castleford and Wakefield have had years and done nothing.

If I was SKY i would cover the absolute minimum of matches.

Their stadiums (For want of a better word) are an embarrassment for  the sport.

 

 

P

Wakey yes but Cas has a great feel in person and I don't think looks awful on TV when it has 7/8000 in

[Tabby]

1 hour ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Wakey yes but Cas has a great feel in person and I don't think looks awful on TV when it has 7/8000 in

The money should be given to

 youth development. End of. Why focus on stadia whilst the opportunity exists to support the sport? 

[Wholly Trinity]

7 hours ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

Bottom line is clubs that have not bothered upgrading their stadiums should be kicked out Castleford and Wakefield have had years and done nothing.

If I was SKY i would cover the absolute minimum of matches.

Their stadiums (For want of a better word) are an embarrassment for  the sport.

 

 

P

I find this a strange perspective. As I usually say at this point is "what has any RL club done that Wakey and Cas not tried to do over the last 20  years?"

Again, if the developer had not wriggled and found a loophole in the legal s.106 requirements, confirmed by the secretary of state after an expensive public inquiry 10 years ago, Wakefield would be playing in a brand new purpose built community stadium between a big fridge and the M62. 

Continually tried and failed through no fault of their own, is closer to the truth. 

Fev fans, quite rightly, proudly point to what they have achieved with their stadium, but their situation was different to Cas & Wakey. There was never any thought of moving elsewhere so they knew they had to make the best of what they had.

Until recently, the stadium requirements for SL were 12k with 5k seating. This was not feasible for WR or BV renovations.

The point made of "look at all the millions they had from sky over 20 years" does not add up. They would have had to spend every penny of that on a new stadium. In the meantime, Wakefield would have been relegated in the first year, never to return, so no SL and no stadium. 

These failed projects were not made up by the clubs with an artists impression to appease/fool the governing body. They were serious proposals which cost a lot of time and money to reach that stage.

Anyhow, hopefully next month's planning meeting passes both BV and the enabling project and regeneration can begin in February. 

[Saint Toppy]

16 hours ago, M j M said:

If they'd put the standing down the side like at Warrington it would have massively changed things. As it is it's a nice ground just lacking in something.

I suspect it was purely a commercial decision. Standing ticket prices are all the same value. The seating down both sides have 3 basic price points; Bronze - Goal line to roughly 20m line, Silver - 20m to 40m line, Gold - 40m to H/W each going up in value.

So the club generates far more revenue from seating than it does standing.

personally I would have preferred to have the North stand as a standing area (or a mix of both) but I understand why the club went with the seating option.

[M j M]

Yeah I'm sure it was commercial but if the seats never sell out except for one game a year I'm not sure the compromise was worth it.

One thing i've always remembered the architects for Headingley saying at one of the public events was that atmosphere is really important to corporate guests as well.

Even if they're just rattling their jewelry, making the whole thing work helps encourage them to come back as well as simply having some good seats.

[GUBRATS]

4 minutes ago, M j M said:

Yeah I'm sure it was commercial but if the seats never sell out except for one game a year I'm not sure the compromise was worth it.

One thing i've always remembered the architects for Headingley saying at one of the public events was that atmosphere is really important to corporate guests as well.

Even if they're just rattling their jewelry, making the whole thing work helps encourage them to come back as well as simply having some good seats.

Atmosphere is everything in trying to fill a stadium 

[Marauder]

20 hours ago, Dave T said:

I think there's a lot of nostalgia at play tbh, particularly when it comes to Wire. Wilderspool was like a library for a standard game tbh. The Halliwell Jones is far better imho. 

Working just around the corner from The Halliwell Jones for a day next week.

[Marauder]

4 hours ago, M j M said:

Yeah I'm sure it was commercial but if the seats never sell out except for one game a year I'm not sure the compromise was worth it.

One thing i've always remembered the architects for Headingley saying at one of the public events was that atmosphere is really important to corporate guests as well.

Even if they're just rattling their jewelry, making the whole thing work helps encourage them to come back as well as simply having some good seats.

If I'm remembering correctly the corporate boxes at the Keepmoat have a balcony so you can go outside or watch from inside of the box.

[Marauder]

12 hours ago, Wholly Trinity said:

I find this a strange perspective. As I usually say at this point is "what has any RL club done that Wakey and Cas not tried to do over the last 20  years?"

Again, if the developer had not wriggled and found a loophole in the legal s.106 requirements, confirmed by the secretary of state after an expensive public inquiry 10 years ago, Wakefield would be playing in a brand new purpose built community stadium between a big fridge and the M62. 

Continually tried and failed through no fault of their own, is closer to the truth. 

Fev fans, quite rightly, proudly point to what they have achieved with their stadium, but their situation was different to Cas & Wakey. There was never any thought of moving elsewhere so they knew they had to make the best of what they had.

Until recently, the stadium requirements for SL were 12k with 5k seating. This was not feasible for WR or BV renovations.

The point made of "look at all the millions they had from sky over 20 years" does not add up. They would have had to spend every penny of that on a new stadium. In the meantime, Wakefield would have been relegated in the first year, never to return, so no SL and no stadium. 

These failed projects were not made up by the clubs with an artists impression to appease/fool the governing body. They were serious proposals which cost a lot of time and money to reach that stage.

Anyhow, hopefully next month's planning meeting passes both BV and the enabling project and regeneration can begin in February. 

The gap between the big fridge and M62 is being filled at the very moment.

[bromleybulldog]

If money were to come into the game it should be spent on

1) Establishing a national network of fully funded and supported development officers

and

2) Staffing the RFL marketing department with marketing professionals who understand how marketing actually works.

 

Building stadiums for Wakefield,Castleford, Salford, Swinton or whoever should be way down the list and be covered by loans not grants.

[ATLANTISMAN]

Well Super League 1/2 with 10 teams looks like its NAILED ON:)

Just a question on who those 10 will be initially.

The London Broncos maybe dodging a bullet with the signings they have made this year as the Wimbledon move has all the hallmarks of getting the nod.

I can see 

LEEDS RHINOS

WIGAN WARRIORS

ST HELENS 

WARRINGTON WOLVES 

CATALAN DRAGONS 

TOULOUSE

HULL FC 

HULL KINGSTON ROVERS 

Nailed on 

 

And take your pick from the rest I would not be surprised if the Broncos though already have the green light 100% for SL2 and maybe even SL1 SKY are driving this and I am certain they will get what they want.

 

Take your pick for SL2 10 clubs 

1 up and 1 down from SL2 to the Championship 2023 onwards.

 

P

 

 

[Wholly Trinity]

13 hours ago, Marauder said:

The gap between the big fridge and M62 is being filled at the very moment.

Yes, and al that development was supposed to pay for the community stadium and ancillary facilities.

However, the development of the actual site of the proposed stadium (plot 8 ) is up for planning next month.

So, instead of paying for the community facilities @ £30m they are contributing £8m to the East stand at BV and gaining even more land for the NM distribution site. You couldn't make it up.

Something went badly wrong and you can decide who is to blame.

ATEOTD Trinity may have done ok to get something rather than nothing and the development of BV will be owned by the club rather than a community trust. 

The ratepayers of Wakefield have been seriously shortchanged and in particular the residents of Newmarket Lane.

[Ray Cashmere]

17 hours ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

Well Super League 1/2 with 10 teams looks like its NAILED ON:)

Just a question on who those 10 will be initially.

The London Broncos maybe dodging a bullet with the signings they have made this year as the Wimbledon move has all the hallmarks of getting the nod.

I can see 

LEEDS RHINOS

WIGAN WARRIORS

ST HELENS 

WARRINGTON WOLVES 

CATALAN DRAGONS 

TOULOUSE

HULL FC 

HULL KINGSTON ROVERS 

Nailed on 

 

And take your pick from the rest I would not be surprised if the Broncos though already have the green light 100% for SL2 and maybe even SL1 SKY are driving this and I am certain they will get what they want.

 

Take your pick for SL2 10 clubs 

1 up and 1 down from SL2 to the Championship 2023 onwards.

 

P

 

 

Not sure where you've heard this from but the Salford board intimated that they didn't expect any restructure to take place until the 2024 season (caveated with something along the lines of 'but this is The RFL we're speaking about').

If they do proceed with Super League 1 and 2 then I really do fear for the worst. 

[Marauder]

8 hours ago, Wholly Trinity said:

Yes, and al that development was supposed to pay for the community stadium and ancillary facilities.

However, the development of the actual site of the proposed stadium (plot 8 ) is up for planning next month.

So, instead of paying for the community facilities @ £30m they are contributing £8m to the East stand at BV and gaining even more land for the NM distribution site. You couldn't make it up.

Something went badly wrong and you can decide who is to blame.

ATEOTD Trinity may have done ok to get something rather than nothing and the development of BV will be owned by the club rather than a community trust. 

The ratepayers of Wakefield have been seriously shortchanged and in particular the residents of Newmarket Lane.

I heard it was something to do with the small print, I for one wouldn't have allowed any further development in that area and recently Mr Johnson has screwed others by changing laws to enable developments to go ahead without 106 money having to be paid in full.

[ATLANTISMAN]

9 hours ago, Ray Cashmere said:

Not sure where you've heard this from but the Salford board intimated that they didn't expect any restructure to take place until the 2024 season (caveated with something along the lines of 'but this is The RFL we're speaking about').

If they do proceed with Super League 1 and 2 then I really do fear for the worst. 

Its NAILED ON :)

[Tommygilf]

If Cas ever did redevelop the Wheldon Road site, would it be worth considering going to "3 and a half stands".

By that I mean moving a new main stand back, adding to the Wheldon Road end, pushing the gantry side forwards to increase capacity, and taking space from the Railway end to make sure the pitch is full size.

Works for Landsdowne Road!

[JohnM]

On 17/11/2021 at 23:31, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Wakey yes but Cas has a great feel in person and I don't think looks awful on TV when it has 7/8000 in

Yes, like being in a living Lowry painting and I'm sure you are right about the TV appearance. If the ground meets the required standards for safety, etc, then in this poorly funded small buiness kind of world our sport inhabits, who can blame the club for not turning attention away from  funding the team and towards funding a new stadium, unless a new stadium can deliver a return on investment that benefits the club as a whole.

In my view, it was different at Central Park. Its sale and a move to the DW was the only way of avoiding financial disaster. And CP was a truly awful place to spend a Sunday afternoon.

[Ray Cashmere]

14 hours ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

Its NAILED ON

If that is the case it is scandalous it hasn't already been announced given the obvious impacts it will have on the 2022 season.

[Swansea Jack]

On 16/11/2021 at 12:03, The Rocket said:

I wasn`t going to comment on MJM`s post but since you are so interested I`ll briefly put the NRL`s side of the story.

First and foremost it`s important to remember that the NRL had 15 000 000 more views than afl up to this years finals series. That`s for a 200 game regular season compared to their 207 and we didn`t have our pre-season matches televised, there was no NRLW and viewers from NZ are not counted. They had the first two in their figures.

In 2023 we will have 17 teams and that advantage could increase to 30 000 000, if we eventually go to 18 we could easily be ahead by over 50 000 000. Easily I add because starting next year as well all 32 pre-season matches will be telecast as well and the women will be back.

Rugby League was widely regarded as the premier sporting competition in this country up until the the mid-90`s. It still is for many. The NSWRL`s ` Simply the Best` campaign with Tina Turner blew everything out of the water. It was fashionable amongst all classes to support a League team, League players like Luke Ricketson were in the social pages of the papers every week dating models etc. etc. League was fashionable.

One might even say we were victims of our own success because a certain media mogul looked at the game and said I can take this game any where, plonk down a team, scrap 100 year old clubs and it will be a rip-roaring success. Thus began the Super League war and the game tearing itself apart. Murdoch estimates he spent $100m trying to take over Rugby League and in the end all he achieved was bitterness and dislocation and a lot of people walking away from the game. I can only imagine now how that $100m could have been spent constructively, teams in Perth, Adelaide the sky could have been the limit.

On broadcast deals up until around 2014 the deals were roughly similar, in that year Lachlan Murdoch as part owner of channel 10 thought they had the NRL FTA rights in the bag in cahoots with his old man at Foxtel. It looked like a done deal until a last minute monster deal was done with Channel Nine cutting out Ten and Foxtel. This was when an enraged Rupert Murdoch made a trip in person to Australia ( he`d never done that before) for the unveiling of the next afl deal. 

Murdoch famously said at the time `afl has always been our preferred sport` and tacked another several hundred million onto their deal to spite the NRL. The absolute ludicrousness of his statement was plain for all to see, the bloke by his own account had spent $100m trying to buy the game 20 years previous, still owned 66% of the Broncos and had tipped in $50m + into the Storm until they got on their feet.

But truth mattered little to a media mogul scorned or for that particular media mogul at any time.

I could go on forever but one point where MJM is definitely correct is the problem we have in our game with player image and its` consequent effect on attracting sponsors and really breaking out of our working class demographic. If the NRL could get this one problem sorted a lot of the other issues were we lag would sort themselves out. We lost a big sponsorship with a national hardware chain early this year because of some off-field issue. It ain`t a good time in history for blokes behaving badly, especially towards women. Personally I`m hoping the growth of the women`s game and the integration of more women into clubs might nullify the boys club mentality that can pervade the game. Here`s hoping.

Unfortunately we are in a position now where League players are fair game and it`s considered newsworthy if you can find a scandal involving League players, real or manufactured. This is going to be hard to fix overnight. I put a story up on the cross-code page of a union player ripping the handle off a door of a toilet at the Prime Ministers residence for a souvenir, it was treated as a great big laugh, if it had of been a Leaguie, god help us.

Any way mate enough from me, one for sure though League is fighting back and if we can a few things right, look out.

NSWRL - Winfield Cup 1991 - Simply the Best - Bing video

Thank you for your detailed response.

 

 

 

[JM2010]

On 18/11/2021 at 16:59, ATLANTISMAN said:

Well Super League 1/2 with 10 teams looks like its NAILED ON:)

Just a question on who those 10 will be initially.

The London Broncos maybe dodging a bullet with the signings they have made this year as the Wimbledon move has all the hallmarks of getting the nod.

I can see 

LEEDS RHINOS

WIGAN WARRIORS

ST HELENS 

WARRINGTON WOLVES 

CATALAN DRAGONS 

TOULOUSE

HULL FC 

HULL KINGSTON ROVERS 

Nailed on 

 

And take your pick from the rest I would not be surprised if the Broncos though already have the green light 100% for SL2 and maybe even SL1 SKY are driving this and I am certain they will get what they want.

 

Take your pick for SL2 10 clubs 

1 up and 1 down from SL2 to the Championship 2023 onwards.

 

P

 

 

So is it being done on franchises rather than league positions?

Will all 20 clubs be full time?

Is there any promotion from league 1 into the 2 X 10 or is it application based every few years?

Are there any plans to increase to 2 X 12 in the future?

Sorry, lots of questions there

[burnleywelsh]

On 18/11/2021 at 16:59, ATLANTISMAN said:

Well Super League 1/2 with 10 teams looks like its NAILED ON:)

Just a question on who those 10 will be initially.

The London Broncos maybe dodging a bullet with the signings they have made this year as the Wimbledon move has all the hallmarks of getting the nod.

I can see 

LEEDS RHINOS

WIGAN WARRIORS

ST HELENS 

WARRINGTON WOLVES 

CATALAN DRAGONS 

TOULOUSE

HULL FC 

HULL KINGSTON ROVERS 

Nailed on 

 

And take your pick from the rest I would not be surprised if the Broncos though already have the green light 100% for SL2 and maybe even SL1 SKY are driving this and I am certain they will get what they want.

 

Take your pick for SL2 10 clubs 

1 up and 1 down from SL2 to the Championship 2023 onwards.

 

P

 

 

Heard the same from someone well connected:

 

Two division SL from 2023 has been agreed by the clubs. Div 1 looking like -Saints, Wigan, Wire, Leeds, Hull, Hull KR, Catalan, Cas, Toulouse & Huddersfield. Div 2 - Salford, Wakey, York, Fev, Leigh, Halifax, Bradford, London Broncos, Widnes & Newcastle.