Cricket - Matches & General Discussion Thread

[phiggins]

23 hours ago, GeordieSaint said:

Agnew’s plan:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/60016410

The trouble this plan has, is that just creating a franchise league doesn't mean that interest in first class cricket outside of test matches (maybe even outside of ashes cricket) isn't going to suddenly increase.

While I do think the schedules need to be sorted, with more red ball cricket played in the summer, one big problem is that peopler aren't interested in the County Championship. So it's going to be difficult to play too much of it in the middle of summer.

For all the talk of pitches and pace and spin bowling, we've been undone on green seamers, with Boland getting a stack of wickets bowling not much faster than Darren Stevens. 

I think the biggest issue is the quality of coaching, at all levels, and it's wrong for Root and Silverwood to try and hide behind schedules for their mistakes.

[gingerjon]

4 minutes ago, phiggins said:

The trouble this plan has, is that just creating a franchise league doesn't mean that interest in first class cricket outside of test matches (maybe even outside of ashes cricket) isn't going to suddenly increase.

While I do think the schedules need to be sorted, with more red ball cricket played in the summer, one big problem is that peopler aren't interested in the County Championship. So it's going to be difficult to play too much of it in the middle of summer.

For all the talk of pitches and pace and spin bowling, we've been undone on green seamers, with Boland getting a stack of wickets bowling not much faster than Darren Stevens. 

I think the biggest issue is the quality of coaching, at all levels, and it's wrong for Root and Silverwood to try and hide behind schedules for their mistakes.

Also notable how many players from around the world come into county set-ups at some point in their career - for both red and white ball - and improve as a result.

Maybe, just maybe, it's bigger than the fact that Canterbury isn't a very big ground and Agnew is embarrassed that it exists - or whatever drives the revulsion that so many English cricket media types seem to have for the set up of cricket in England.

[Gerrumonside ref]

Haven’t the Counties been getting pretty large streaming figures recently?

I thought the Bob Willis Trophy in itself was successful in that way.

Didn’t we have 18 counties when we were successful against Australia in the past?

Do we definitely have to rebadge the counties and cull some of them to have a competitive test side?

Just seems to me that some of the general reaction in English cricket at the moment is either knee-jerk or prescribing solutions to fit pre-existing plans.

 

[THE RED ROOSTER]

The issue ios not about drinking per se it's about Graham Thorpe capturing this on his I-phone, and then sharing it with his mates one of whom sold it to the SMH.

It's also about team dynamics now  in the public domain. Everyone knows who the "fat shaming" victim is. It would appear that there are those in the squad / coaching staff who are leaking out their version of events to the media possibly to deflect questions about their own role in the debacle.

Either way, Chris Silverwood's position is now untenable along with a few others.

NB - Nathan Lyon is in fact one of the better blokes in the Aussie camp if you did but know it. Like Virat Kohli who recently gave up the India captaincy, the player on the field is not the person you meet off it.

[phiggins]

2 hours ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Haven’t the Counties been getting pretty large streaming figures recently?

I thought the Bob Willis Trophy in itself was successful in that way.

Didn’t we have 18 counties when we were successful against Australia in the past?

Do we definitely have to rebadge the counties and cull some of them to have a competitive test side?

Just seems to me that some of the general reaction in English cricket at the moment is either knee-jerk or prescribing solutions to fit pre-existing plans.

 

They might get decent streaming numbers because it's on YouTube for free. Not sure how it can equate to any income, compared with the T20 comp. 

The BWT was a bit of an anti climax in 2021, after Warwickshire had already won the County Championship, pretty dramatically. Lancs capitulation didn't help either.

For the 18 counties, the question is are they all doing as well as they can do. Suspect the answer is no, given cricket is showing itself to be falling short when it comes to inclusivity. But overall, I think the main question is how many games should be played, rather than how mant counties should there be. A lower number of games, played in good conditions is better than a raft of games played in April and September.

2 hours ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

The issue ios not about drinking per se it's about Graham Thorpe capturing this on his I-phone, and then sharing it with his mates one of whom sold it to the SMH.

It's also about team dynamics now  in the public domain. Everyone knows who the "fat shaming" victim is. It would appear that there are those in the squad / coaching staff who are leaking out their version of events to the media possibly to deflect questions about their own role in the debacle.

Either way, Chris Silverwood's position is now untenable along with a few others.

NB - Nathan Lyon is in fact one of the better blokes in the Aussie camp if you did but know it. Like Virat Kohli who recently gave up the India captaincy, the player on the field is not the person you meet off it.

Kohli has done more for test cricket than anybody at the ECB has for the last 6 years, just by taking it seriously, after Dhoni's apparent preference for white ball cricket.

[gingerjon]

5 minutes ago, phiggins said:

A lower number of games, played in good conditions is better than a raft of games played in April and September.

We need to increase the player pool as well as the coaching pool.

We won't do that by reducing playing and coaching opportunities.

[Gerrumonside ref]

40 minutes ago, phiggins said:

They might get decent streaming numbers because it's on YouTube for free. Not sure how it can equate to any income, compared with the T20 comp. 

The BWT was a bit of an anti climax in 2021, after Warwickshire had already won the County Championship, pretty dramatically. Lancs capitulation didn't help either.

For the 18 counties, the question is are they all doing as well as they can do. Suspect the answer is no, given cricket is showing itself to be falling short when it comes to inclusivity. But overall, I think the main question is how many games should be played, rather than how mant counties should there be. A lower number of games, played in good conditions is better than a raft of games played in April and September.

Kohli has done more for test cricket than anybody at the ECB has for the last 6 years, just by taking it seriously, after Dhoni's apparent preference for white ball cricket.

I think the last two years have shown that there’s interest in the county game (streaming figures prove it) and my reference to BWT was more 2020’s enforced affair which proved itself to be relatively popular.

Yes, it might have been free, but there’s plenty of other free content out  there that doesn’t attract interest.  I think it could be developed and exposed more.  Yes, I agree it won’t suddenly jump to match T20 income, but equally the idea that people have no interest in the county game was a ghost laid to rest for me.

I think the big misstep was The Hundred myself.  I do agree that the counties need a shake up regards culture (discussed elsewhere) and yes the CC needs to produce test players.

 

Edited January 18, 2022 by Gerrumonside ref

[phiggins]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

We need to increase the player pool as well as the coaching pool.

We won't do that by reducing playing and coaching opportunities.

I said less games, not less teams, which would mean a question of the structure. The move to two divisions was brought in because (if I remember correctly) there was a lack of intensity in games. I think that might still be the case if there are two divisions playing 16 games each. 
Even if you take the 100 out, there’s only so much that you can fit in.

[gingerjon]

25 minutes ago, phiggins said:

I said less games, not less teams, which would mean a question of the structure. The move to two divisions was brought in because (if I remember correctly) there was a lack of intensity in games. I think that might still be the case if there are two divisions playing 16 games each. 
Even if you take the 100 out, there’s only so much that you can fit in.

Fair point, you did.

I do think we need to have a flabbier schedule than we might like in an ideal world because so much play in England can be lost to rain/bad light.

I should also add that I don't think you raise the standard of either county sides in general or the next generation of players in particular by removing current England players from their county teams so often. They need to be playing the county structure too.

[JonM]

ECB to appoint Novak Djokovic as England batting coach. He has no previous cricket experience, but it still took the Aussies more than a week to get him out.

[JonM]

13 hours ago, gingerjon said:

I should also add that I don't think you raise the standard of either county sides in general or the next generation of players in particular by removing current England players from their county teams so often. They need to be playing the county structure too.

Yes, it's hard to blame the county championship for England's problems when most of the squad barely play in it. 

[DavidM]

When they’re set maybe , but the players coming into the side are coming from county cricket , and then you see how ill prepared they are and how ill suited it seems to be in producing test cricketers . Crawley gave an interesting interview on this the other day . From structure to pitches to quality to when it’s played , we’re only reaping what we’ve sowed . It needs big changes but whether it goes beyond just saying it is another matter 

Edited January 19, 2022 by DavidM

[Moose]

Yorkshire have appointed Ottis Gibson as head coach on a three year contract. Excellent news

[DavidM]

2 hours ago, Moose said:

Yorkshire have appointed Ottis Gibson as head coach on a three year contract. Excellent news

I like him , I know he has a very good record as a specialist coach but not sure on his role as a head coach . He’s had some big gigs though 

[THE RED ROOSTER]

The damage caused by New Zealand not touring to Cricket Australia's finances. Which is why there was such pressure on England to tour

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/127546826/postponed-black-caps-tour-to-cost-cricket-australia-millions-in-tv-revenue

[gingerjon]

Women's Ashes starts today. Seven matches across all three formats opening with a T20 series.

I firmly expect Australia to win all 7 such is the gulf in resources that the Aussies have opened up but that there will be a lot more fight from England in each game than in the abject display we've all just endured.

[gingerjon]

6 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Women's Ashes starts today. Seven matches across all three formats opening with a T20 series.

I firmly expect Australia to win all 7 such is the gulf in resources that the Aussies have opened up but that there will be a lot more fight from England in each game than in the abject display we've all just endured.

England batted better than I think anyone had a right to expect given their build-up but then bowled and fielded like a team who really are very rusty indeed. Australia win by nine wickets and Tahlia McGrath still doesn't have a T20I average after three innings.

Also ... men's and women's domestic fixtures are out and I am very, very excited for the upcoming season. Seems to be a bit of momentum from fans for supporting the county (and women's regional) game right now and that can only be a good thing.

[Gerrumonside ref]

More details on the 2022 cricket season:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/60057316

[DavidM]

Neil Snowball , awesome name 

[17 stone giant]

On 20/01/2022 at 15:06, DavidM said:

Neil Snowball , awesome name 

Snowball's chance in hell of him being able to sort things out.

[DavidM]

I see the PSL starts this week , I very much enjoyed watching it last year . Some very gifted players there

[gingerjon]

32 minutes ago, DavidM said:

I see the PSL starts this week , I very much enjoyed watching it last year . Some very gifted players there

Yorkshire have formed a partnership with Lahore so I will be following them.

[Farmduck]

Good result in the Women's Test in Manuka. Australia fell 1 wicket short of a win and England was only 12 runs short of a win. I guess there are good draws.

[Adelaide Tiger]

2 hours ago, Farmduck said:

Good result in the Women's Test in Manuka. Australia fell 1 wicket short of a win and England was only 12 runs short of a win. I guess there are good draws.

England somehow magnificently achieved to snatch a draw from the jaws of certain victory.

With about 10 overs to go and England needing less than a run a ball with 7 wickets remaining and both batsmen/ batswomen/ batsperson/ batter having each scored 40 plus the Aussies were in so much bother that their bowler Sutherland started bowling a yard wide of the wicket to achieve dot balls.

At that point one of the commentators said that it was a legitimate tactic as the Aussies had no chance of taking 7 wickets.

For me the turning point was when Dunkley - having scored 40 odd in quick time to put England in with a chance and reduced the run rate to 5 an over - went for a slog when all she needed to do was to keep the singles ticking over and was brilliantly caught on the boundary.  Then the implosion occurred and with 13 needed off the last two overs the last pair batted out for a draw.

Gripping stuff but a massive opportunity spurned.

[gingerjon]

4 hours ago, Farmduck said:

Good result in the Women's Test in Manuka. Australia fell 1 wicket short of a win and England was only 12 runs short of a win. I guess there are good draws.

One of the most remarkable day's play I think I can ever remember. Not many Test matches genuinely have all four results possible with 18 balls left.

But, to show just how much the ICC/ECB and others value such things: as of right now there are no scheduled women's Test matches for any country at any point in the future.