Cricket - Matches & General Discussion Thread

[gingerjon]

25 minutes ago, DavidM said:

Bumble said that and he said he spent more and more time getting pulled up by the boss about summat he’d said 

To be fair, during his latter days on Blast commentary, Bumble was one of the worst for spending his entire time on comms talking about the crowd and getting people with earpieces in to wave at him.

[DavidM]

26 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

To be fair, during his latter days on Blast commentary, Bumble was one of the worst for spending his entire time on comms talking about the crowd and getting people with earpieces in to wave at him.

True . From a distance . I often wondered if he fancied sitting among them all game !

[17 stone giant]

What a win by Hampshire! It's never over until the fat lady sings.

Northamptonshire were cruising to victory at 177 for 5.

6 overs later and they're all out for 188, after 40.2 overs.

Hampshire win by 11 runs. 

[Futtocks]

RIP Rudi Koertzen.

[DavidM]

1 hour ago, Futtocks said:

RIP Rudi Koertzen.

I thought that was really very sad , he came across a fine umpire and decent chap . Very calm , composed and in control 

[THE RED ROOSTER]

The first of many perhaps, Trent Boult spearhead of the New Zealand attack gives up his central contract to play in domestic leagues but will still play for New Zealand which appears now a second choice. Some interesting tweets in this article.

https://wisden.com/stories/the-future-is-here-trent-boult-released-from-central-contract-will-continue-to-play-domestic-leagues

Edited August 10, 2022 by THE RED ROOSTER

[THE RED ROOSTER]

More discord between the Counties coming up with "unpopular" decisions about to be made about the format of the game. While the current County Championship seems secure. The Category B and C Counties (i.e those who do not host the ) with a legitimate beef about the additional hosting monies coming the way of the seven hosts and MCC. Also they suspect tapping of players by the hosts,. evidenced by Jordan - Sussex to Surrey, Salt - Sussex to Lancashire, Milnes - Kent to Yorkshire, Howell - Gloucestershire to Hampshire and Moeen Ali - Worcestershire to Warwickshire. The rich getting richer at the expense of the rest of the game.

Now some point to movement from the  counties to the smaller clubs, citing Willey - Yorkshire to Northamptonshire and Joey Evison from Nottinghamshire to Kent as evidence of two-way traffic but there are special circumstances surrounding Yorkshire as all should know and for younger players what you really want to do is play on a regular basis so you move to a county where you can get a regular spot in the starting XI.

In short, experienced and established players moving towards the grounds, and young inexperienced ones going in the other direction.

The B & C Counties have a redline that means a 14 game T20 Blast must be maintained as publicly stated by John Stephenson CEO of Essex. Surrey as disclosed  by CEO Steve Elworthy at a forum on Sunday want a return to a 10 game regional T20 Blast supported it would seem by Lancashire citing  "player workload"

THe T20 Blast as it stands being played in 2023 against a backdrop of an Ashes series being crammed into 8 weeks in June and July with a pre-Ashes test against Ireland and Australia probably in the World Test Championship Final at Lords to boot. All to acccomodate the having August exclusive to itself.

Now wonder Richard Thompson needed a full medical prior to appiintment as Chair of the England and Wales Cricket Board...

[gingerjon]

6 hours ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

All to acccomodate the having August exclusive to itself.

Well, why would the majority of the country be wanting to watch any cricket firsthand during August?

[17 stone giant]

10 hours ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

The Category B and C Counties (i.e those who do not host the ) with a legitimate beef about the additional hosting monies coming the way of the seven hosts and MCC.

Presumably the test ground counties have also always benefitted from hosting England matches? Even more so since one day matches and T20's became a thing. In the last 15 or so years, Hampshire have joined those ranks, but we certainly weren't for most of our history.

For me, cricket is a strangely structured sport anyway, because counties often don't have their best players available, due to international commitments. I believe this happens sometimes in rugby union, and perhaps rugby league too, but it's certainly not a thing in football.

I guess it's impossible to always have the best players available, but I do think the end result is that it's hard to take county cricket (and even The Hundred) as seriously as it perhaps could be. If, say, Hampshire beat Yorkshire, you can't overlook the fact that it happened with Root, Bairstow and Stokes unavailable etc. That has to have an impact on the credibility of the result. If England beat Argentina at football, but Messi and Aguero and Di Maria were all away playing for their clubs, you wouldn't have the same respect for the result, as you would if all the best players were available.

I don't know what the answer is. I don't like the fact that Root plays a couple of games in The Hundred and then goes elsewhere. In what other sport do the best players only play in part of a tournament? It wouldn't be accepted in football if players weren't available for the Champions League knockout stage, because they were doing something else.

 

 

[THE RED ROOSTER]

15 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Well, why would the majority of the country be wanting to watch any cricket firsthand during August?

They could always watch more Rugby League instead as I will be doing.

 

11 hours ago, 17 stone giant said:

Presumably the test ground counties have also always benefitted from hosting England matches? Even more so since one day matches and T20's became a thing. In the last 15 or so years, Hampshire have joined those ranks, but we certainly weren't for most of our history

 

So it would be ok then to increase the disparity even further ?. Hampshire are supposed to be in partnership with Sussex regarding the Southern Brave franchise. How much of the gate reciepts from SB matches at the Ageas Bowl goes to Sussex ?

The fact is no T20 or league outside the IPL makes a profit without the inclusion of Indian Players and the subsequent TV Contract. This is why the new South African League who wholly IPL owned with the hope that the IPL owners will persuade the BCCI to let some players participate.

Now the view of the rich IPL owners, is that they can contract players to play for teams in their tournaments worldwide. How would this fit into a UK context, well if the drain of funds that is the continues then private ownership of the teams becomes the solution, as ECB powerbrokers have confessed in the past.

So you will end up with one for the Lawyers as to whether say Jonny Bairstow is a England Contracted player, Yourshire Player or Kolkata Knight Rider player. REmember restraint of trade rules appkly here as in this case https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/aug/09/big-bash-battle-looms-for-cricket-australia-over-chris-lynns-uae-t20-move

As for the beiong a "profit centre" it is not the bulk of the £ 1.3 million to counties is for International Cricket rights. and by extending the deal for a further 4 years at the same price. The value of the deal depreciates each year - so great for SKY. Maybe not for the Counties

https://www.thecricketer.com/Topics/countycricket/future_counties_1.3million_hundred_payments_unclear_despite_announcement_broadcast_deal_ecb.html

 

 

 

[17 stone giant]

2 hours ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

Hampshire are supposed to be in partnership with Sussex regarding the Southern Brave franchise. How much of the gate reciepts from SB matches at the Ageas Bowl goes to Sussex ?

I've no idea, but surely this must have been decided prior to The Hundred starting. It's the same situation for every team.

[gingerjon]

6 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

I've no idea, but surely this must have been decided prior to The Hundred starting. It's the same situation for every team.

Why must it have been?

Sussex were meant to be hosting the majority of the women's matches.

But then that idea was shelved once the competition was 'agreed'.

And then, this year, out of nowhere, it gets all of August to itself so, unless you are one of the eight hosts, you are basically denied cricket income for the summer's prime month aside from four days of a development competition.

Great competition. Really expanding the game.

And that's before the bit where the agreed distribution from the ECB hasn't been distributed and no guarantee it will be.

[17 stone giant]

2 hours ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

So it would be ok then to increase the disparity even further ?

Hasn't there always been a disparity? Look at the list of county championship winners:

Yorkshire 33, Surrey 20, Middlesex 13, Lancashire 9, Essex 8, Warwickshire 8, Kent 7, Nottinghamshire 6......and the bottom few Gloucestershire 0, Northamptonshire 0, Somerset 0.

Is it a coincidence that apart from Essex and Kent, all of the rest at the top are those counties that have big stadiums used for Test matches. Presumably, in simple terms they are areas with high populations, so the counties get a lot of fans, which means more money, enabling them to build bigger stadiums, all of which then translates to on field success.

 

[17 stone giant]

4 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Why must it have been?

I'm only assuming that it would, because it would have seemed the obvious question for counties like Sussex to ask, before they signed up to being part of it. It's not the sort of thing that you can ignore and worry about later - it's central to how everything is structured.

I don't claim to know or even have the slightest idea how it all works. Like you said, initially it seemed as though Sussex would host the women's matches. Even if that had happened, there would still be questions as to how the finances were going to be split. The women's matches in a smaller a stadium, would obviously give Sussex far less money than Hampshire would get for hosting the men's matches in a bigger stadium.

I doubt though that there is a perfect solution here. You're unlikely to ever get something that everyone agrees is completely fair. If we assume that the majority of the Southern Brave crowd at the Rose Bowl are Hampshire fans (or at least people from Hampshire), some Hampshire folk might ask why should Sussex be given half of everything? It's Hampshire folk that are providing the bulk of the funding, so Hampshire cricket should get the lions share of the profits.

On the other hand, you can flip that around and ask why should Hampshire get to host all the more profitable men's matches (along with an increasing number of double headers with the womens too)? This is where idealism meet realism. In an ideal world, you would give Hampshire and Sussex an equal number of mens and womens matches. But in the real world, common sense tells you that you need to use the bigger stadium and sell more tickets.

[DavidM]

Interesting article on Cricinfo about the situation in West Indies with players not making themselves available . Phil Simmons says they can’t beg for players to play , but guys like Russell and Narine are playing franchise cricket . 

[Futtocks]

14 hours ago, DavidM said:

Interesting article on Cricinfo about the situation in West Indies with players not making themselves available . Phil Simmons says they can’t beg for players to play , but guys like Russell and Narine are playing franchise cricket . 

This has been the case, off and on, for several years now. And when you see the earnings difference between representing the West Indies and playing in the various T20s around the world, it's hard to argue against the players' case.

[Gerrumonside ref]

More doom and gloom I’m afraid in the article linked.

New T20 leagues in South Africa with links to the IPL franchises and one in the UAE.

Potential for T20 competition then to run through the main part of the year in a more lucrative fashion than ever before with little room for anything else. 

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2022/aug/13/cricket-is-about-to-reach-tipping-point-with-power-grab-of-alternative-season

Edited August 13, 2022 by Gerrumonside ref

[DavidM]

9 hours ago, Futtocks said:

This has been the case, off and on, for several years now. And when you see the earnings difference between representing the West Indies and playing in the various T20s around the world, it's hard to argue against the players' case.

It really is . I can see both sides but I wouldn’t call anyone out on it 

[THE RED ROOSTER]

Another quality read from Being Outside Cricket

https://beingoutsidecricket.com/2022/08/14/the-goose-that-lays-the-golden-eggs/

I certainly do not agree with all their views but BOC and The Grumblers County Cricket newsletter are required reading on the game.

https://countycricket.substack.com/p/no-62-aug-10-the-grumblers-county

[Gerrumonside ref]

I have taken this week off specifically to take in the whole first test against South Africa.

Inviting friends over, special food, drinks, the lot.

Expect rain delays now!

[gingerjon]

2 hours ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

Another quality read from Being Outside Cricket

https://beingoutsidecricket.com/2022/08/14/the-goose-that-lays-the-golden-eggs/

I certainly do not agree with all their views but BOC and The Grumblers County Cricket newsletter are required reading on the game.

https://countycricket.substack.com/p/no-62-aug-10-the-grumblers-county

Have to say, I was quite taken with the idea of moving The Hundred to April and then using the vast marketing overspend (relative to income it's (not) bringing in) in a more connected way to other cricket happenings.

I don't think it would work ultimately but it makes a lot more sense than what we have now.

[THE RED ROOSTER]

I would agree with you about the being best suited to being a pre-season taster bit like Rugby League nines but SKY TV have been much more involved in the creation of the than they or the ECB care to admit and have other priorities in April.

The IPL has the worlds best players and the UK asian TV audience which is both affluent and IPL crazy. IPL viewing figures higher than that of domestic cricket on SKY,

The elephant in the room in all this, is that the so we are told, was created to get the game back on TV FTA audience and the BBC are not included in the four year extension for the same money which in itself, depreciates each year. But now SKY hold the rights to Cricket in England up to 2028  any new deal for a FTA broadcaster would mean they either sub-let (as with Channel 4) or simulcast as with BT and Union and at the same time can further reduce the value of the TV deal if International Cricket or any format is on FTA.

Many counties are so appalingly run that they rely on ECB handouts (not guranteed for 2024-2028) and it is often forgotten that when Parliamentary lawmakers started mooting Cricket being on FTA as opposed to SKY in the wake of the India v England series on Channel 4 . The County CEO's to a man wrote back to Parliament  to ask them not to put Cricket on FTA as they would get less money in any TV deal.

The average County CEO gtets a salary in excess of that of the UK Prime Minister so Crickets nomenklatura actually see no reason to change the arrangements that reward them so well.

[DavidM]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

Have to say, I was quite taken with the idea of moving The Hundred to April and then using the vast marketing overspend (relative to income it's (not) bringing in) in a more connected way to other cricket happenings.

I don't think it would work ultimately but it makes a lot more sense than what we have now.

Or November / December and let the actual counties play the actual county championship at peak times like now 

[gingerjon]

12 minutes ago, DavidM said:

Or November / December and let the actual counties play the actual county championship at peak times like now 

I don't disagree that it's a giant white elephant of a tournament that's already been left behind by the IPL deciding to invest in the UAE not here but ...

... assuming its stated aims of expanding the audience and increasing attendances are real then it does make a sort of sense to play it at the start of the season when its marketing budget can then be used to drive these definitely real new audiences to further matches at these grounds and county/regional competitions coming up across the country.

Right now, the Hundred audience is being sold 'cricket' but with no additional cricket on hand to spend their money on even if they wanted to.

[17 stone giant]

Loving The Hundred again. There's been some great matches and fantastic individual performances. It will be interesting to see the viewing and attendance figures once the tournament is finished, but it looks well supported again. Southern Brave have sold out their two remaining home matches, but we're also hosting The Eliminator this season, which I hadn't realised until recently. The range of merchandise has also increased this season, which is a good sign for longevity of the tournament. Hopefully they'll continue to add more stuff, because the original range wasn't that great. I already noticed more people wearing SB stuff at this years matches, which will only increase as more and better items become available.