CC Semi finals and Women's CC Final at Elland Road

[Eddie]

7 minutes ago, Ooh Ah Timmy Street said:

‘The 2022 competition will have a new format, with the 16 competing teams drawn into four seeded groups of four teams, with each team participating in at least three fixtures.’

 

This quote from the article is news to be . Not seen this mentioned anywhere in league express or on this Forum.  Have I missed this one?

The women’s CC? Surely not the men’s  

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

The women’s CC? Surely not the men’s  

This is for the Women’s Challenge Cup in 2022, but it’s the future of the Men’s Challenge Cup too IMO. Early rounds are so poorly attended now something has to changed, group games can be packaged and sold in with season tickets to actually make some money from those games.

[Eddie]

12 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

This is for the Women’s Challenge Cup in 2022, but it’s the future of the Men’s Challenge Cup too IMO. Early rounds are so poorly attended now something has to changed, group games can be packaged and sold in with season tickets to actually make some money from those games.

If people aren’t going to knock out games why would they go to dead rubbers in a group stage? 

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

10 hours ago, Eddie said:

If people aren’t going to knock out games why would they go to dead rubbers in a group stage? 

If the games were packaged together with Super League games and sold as part of their season tickets people would go to these games. 

[Eddie]

19 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

If the games were packaged together with Super League games and sold as part of their season tickets people would go to these games. 

So they’d get in for free? That’s not much use to the clubs? 

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

1 minute ago, Eddie said:

So they’d get in for free? That’s not much use to the clubs? 

No, the games would be paid for as part of the season ticket just like regular Super League home fixtures are 

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

No, the games would be paid for as part of the season ticket just like regular Super League home fixtures are 

They would be a disaster.

[GUBRATS]

19 minutes ago, Eddie said:

So they’d get in for free? That’s not much use to the clubs? 

What he's suggesting is an increased price ST , which might well mean more chance of those fans attending the cup games , but also less people buying a ST , swings and roundabouts 

[Tommygilf]

14 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

To add...

The quarter finals in 2019 had a combined attendance of about 21,000.

The combined total attendances of the 2019 games in the Last 16 (Round 6), which included the top 8 SL sides entering, was about 36,000 over 8 games. Less than 5k a game on average (Bradford v Leeds got 10k - biggest of the round).

The previous round total (Round 5), which included the bottom 4 SL sides entering, was about 14,000 over 8 games.

 

Surely some mileage in a combined event in an attractive city centre for each of these rounds over time? Not like there's anything to lose (stadiums are already looking empty in these rounds, they'll have to pay costs at their own grounds for the extra fixture, gates are already shared so little promotion done by individual clubs). Could end up being cheaper to host, with a bigger turnout (more neutrals), centrally-controlled marketing campaign, more enjoyable event, ALL potentially televised on FTA as the cameras are already there.

Just a thought...

There is an argument for something like this, a rejuvenation of the Cup perhaps.

Though as ever, smaller clubs want to play the bigger clubs in split gate matches. Its a relatively massive sum of money for some clubs to play a Saints or Leeds for example.

Perhaps your idea would have to be limited to the very later stages where it was predominantly Super League sides to work/have support. It could be something that cities across the country bid for though I agree.

[Tommygilf]

39 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

They would be a disaster.

Season ticketed cup games would be as well attended as 3rd fixtures against some teams are currently.

[Eddie]

13 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Season ticketed cup games would be as well attended as 3rd fixtures against some teams are currently.

Or even worse, Saints v West Wales for example would be a 100 point blow out and we’d be lucky to get 4,000 die yards there. 

[RP London]

15 hours ago, Eddie said:

Re your first point, I think it would. I don’t like anywhere near the M62 so maybe am different to 90% of potential attendees, but I wouldn’t drive 4 hours to watch a one off semi but I would go watch a double header. And it’s not fashionable to say it, and I can’t put my finger on why, but I’d be less interested in watching the women’s final than either of the men’s semis. 

Totally agree.. although there are plenty of places along the M62 to like it seems harsh to write them all off.. i mean to be fair anywhere playing RL is worth writing off, mostly dumps, but the M62 corridor is quite big..

[RP London]

15 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

To add...

The quarter finals in 2019 had a combined attendance of about 21,000.

The combined total attendances of the 2019 games in the Last 16 (Round 6), which included the top 8 SL sides entering, was about 36,000 over 8 games. Less than 5k a game on average (Bradford v Leeds got 10k - biggest of the round).

The previous round total (Round 5), which included the bottom 4 SL sides entering, was about 14,000 over 8 games.

 

Surely some mileage in a combined event in an attractive city centre for each of these rounds over time? Not like there's anything to lose (stadiums are already looking empty in these rounds, they'll have to pay costs at their own grounds for the extra fixture, gates are already shared so little promotion done by individual clubs). Could end up being cheaper to host, with a bigger turnout (more neutrals), centrally-controlled marketing campaign, more enjoyable event, ALL potentially televised on FTA as the cameras are already there.

Just a thought...

I remember you saying that.. quite like the idea of the current Magic weekend being the round of 16.. 4 games a day could just about work. could even do a Friday night fixture and 3 on the Sunday. The draw could be done before the final game.. 

 

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, RP London said:

Totally agree.. although there are plenty of places along the M62 to like it seems harsh to write them all off.. i mean to be fair anywhere playing RL is worth writing off, mostly dumps, but the M62 corridor is quite big..

I did spot the typo but thought better of taking the P

[RP London]

29 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

There is an argument for something like this, a rejuvenation of the Cup perhaps.

Though as ever, smaller clubs want to play the bigger clubs in split gate matches. Its a relatively massive sum of money for some clubs to play a Saints or Leeds for example.

Perhaps your idea would have to be limited to the very later stages where it was predominantly Super League sides to work/have support. It could be something that cities across the country bid for though I agree.

I'd say round of 16 onwards (everyone getting a cut of the gate) but you are then playing for the chance to play at st james park (for example) as a carrot to the smaller teams (some of which will make it in just by pure maths)

[RP London]

2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

I did spot the typo but thought better of taking the P

Its already been one of those days so needed to get that out somewhere before i took it out on a customer or a member of staff  

[Tommygilf]

12 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Or even worse, Saints v West Wales for example would be a 100 point blow out and we’d be lucky to get 4,000 die yards there. 

That's more than what you'd get for it in a normal cup game tbf?

In any case, in such a scenario I'd expect there would be qualifiying for the group stages with 4 championship/league 1 sides joining the 12 Super League teams (theoretically).

[BridBeachRL]

On 04/12/2021 at 07:14, M j M said:

With respect, the reality is Elland Road is central for RL fans and has a long track record of attracting good crowds whereas Sheffield is out of the way a little - there's no obvious reason to take these games there.

Agreed with Leeds. It will be interesting to see what the crowds are like for the Group game for England against the worst rank side in the Group. With Sheffield it all depends where people are travelling from as has links to all of the Midlands, London, Yorkshire and Lancashire and Bramall Lane is within a 20 minute walk of the station. Definitely more better connected than Bolton but Leeds agreed is well connected although downside Elland Road is out of the way if travelling by train. 

[Futtocks]

The Women's CC draw will be on OurLeague from 10:30am today.

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

That's more than what you'd get for it in a normal cup game tbf?

In any case, in such a scenario I'd expect there would be qualifiying for the group stages with 4 championship/league 1 sides joining the 12 Super League teams (theoretically).

Pretty much destroying the ‘magic’ of the cup. 

[Scubby]

4 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Pretty much destroying the ‘magic’ of the cup. 

Yes if they wanted more games then enter SL clubs at the last 32 and not 16.

[M j M]

1 hour ago, BridBeachRL said:

Agreed with Leeds. It will be interesting to see what the crowds are like for the Group game for England against the worst rank side in the Group. With Sheffield it all depends where people are travelling from as has links to all of the Midlands, London, Yorkshire and Lancashire and Bramall Lane is within a 20 minute walk of the station. Definitely more better connected than Bolton but Leeds agreed is well connected although downside Elland Road is out of the way if travelling by train. 

Elland Road is a pain to get to coming from a few directions, including north Leeds. But as a geographical location it's right in the middle of the Rugby League heartlands being surrounded by nine pro clubs within 15 miles, including four Super League teams (plus Bradford). As a big game venue, despite its physical limitations, it's a no-brainer really.

[Tommygilf]

24 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Pretty much destroying the ‘magic’ of the cup. 

There's not been much magic for many many years sadly. I'm reticent to put a point in time on it because going back 20 years will lead people to point out things from 30 years ago and so on.

[Futtocks]

Here's the draw - just completed on OurLeague.

GROUP A
St Helens
Warrington
Barrow
Army

GROUP B
Leeds
Huddersfield
Leigh MR
Hull FC

GROUP C
York
Wigan
Bradford
Widnes

GROUP D
Castleford
Featherstone
Wakefield
Oulton Raiders

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

There's not been much magic for many many years sadly. I'm reticent to put a point in time on it because going back 20 years will lead people to point out things from 30 years ago and so on.

True, but having just four lower league teams joining the SL teams is rubbish, one of the great things about non-seeded cups is lower league teams getting home ties against big clubs (like Histon v Leeds for example ).