CC Semi finals and Women's CC Final at Elland Road

[Dave T]

On 04/12/2021 at 09:32, Tommygilf said:

Course they will, just as we would have done for 50k at Anfield for the World Cup game(s) there. 

I agree, at the current time, exposure is the most valuable thing for the World Cup.

Funnily enough, we don't do that, we try and find the lowest number possible. We talk about the record being 4.2k, yet the women's final in 2019 was part of the triple header which got 24k. On wiki for example it has the women's crowd as 4k (est). 

I do think the Cup Final day should include the women's Cup final if they are sticking with this double header format. 

[GUBRATS]

3 hours ago, BridBeachRL said:

Agreed with Leeds. It will be interesting to see what the crowds are like for the Group game for England against the worst rank side in the Group. With Sheffield it all depends where people are travelling from as has links to all of the Midlands, London, Yorkshire and Lancashire and Bramall Lane is within a 20 minute walk of the station. Definitely more better connected than Bolton but Leeds agreed is well connected although downside Elland Road is out of the way if travelling by train. 

What , you mean it doesn't have its own train station ? , Pathetic 

[M j M]

1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

What , you mean it doesn't have its own train station ? , Pathetic 

Are you trying to make this all about Leigh again?

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, M j M said:

Are you trying to make this all about Leigh again?

If you , a Leeds fan says it's a pain to get to , it must be , I'm just having a giggle while I warm up again 

[M j M]

8 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

If you , a Leeds fan says it's a pain to get to , it must be , I'm just having a giggle while I warm up again 

We have two stadium stations to choose from so it's all good

The soccer stadium in the south of the city isn't ideal on that front but it's not really our problem most of the time.

[Tommygilf]

5 minutes ago, Eddie said:

True, but having just four lower league teams joining the SL teams is rubbish, one of the great things about non-seeded cups is lower league teams getting home ties against big clubs (like Histon v Leeds for example ). 

Yeah I think that just works in football because of the nature of the sport  

In RL though it is basically impossible for anyone below the middle of the Championship to beat a Super League team and has been for some time.

[JohnM]

All jesting apart  about non-railway station Leigh, does it matter? How many spectators go to games, ANY games, by train? 

[GUBRATS]

21 minutes ago, JohnM said:

All jesting apart  about non-railway station Leigh, does it matter? How many spectators go to games, ANY games, by train? 

About 90% in Yorkshire , of the other 10% , 5% use Yorkshire Airlines ( only when the game is in Yorkshire of course )

[RP London]

46 minutes ago, JohnM said:

All jesting apart  about non-railway station Leigh, does it matter? How many spectators go to games, ANY games, by train? 

to be honest.. if they were all about a 10 minute walk from the station I would go to loads more by train... i really would prefer that to driving to them. But it is a rarity now anyway.

[RP London]

24 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

About 90% in Yorkshire , of the other 10% , 5% use Yorkshire Airlines ( only when the game is in Yorkshire of course )

If i leave Yorkshire I try to take an APV as its safer.. dont trust people outside Gods Own.. 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

12 hours ago, Dave T said:

Funnily enough, we don't do that, we try and find the lowest number possible. We talk about the record being 4.2k, yet the women's final in 2019 was part of the triple header which got 24k. On wiki for example it has the women's crowd as 4k (est). 

I do think the Cup Final day should include the women's Cup final if they are sticking with this double header format. 

I think that would be better for the future than the 1895 Cup, which doesn't seem to be very well supported by clubs in that league (unless they actually get to the final!).

[Eddie]

6 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

I think that would be better for the future than the 1895 Cup, which doesn't seem to be very well supported by clubs in that league (unless they actually get to the final!).

TBF there’s only been one ‘normal’ 1895 cup final (the Widnes v Sheffield one) so it needs time to get going. Playing it before the CC final would help too I think. 

[Scubby]

21 hours ago, Dave T said:

Funnily enough, we don't do that, we try and find the lowest number possible. We talk about the record being 4.2k, yet the women's final in 2019 was part of the triple header which got 24k. On wiki for example it has the women's crowd as 4k (est). 

I do think the Cup Final day should include the women's Cup final if they are sticking with this double header format. 

Having the Women's Challenge Cup final before the semi finals but a Challenge Cup losers knock out match before the actual final makes no sense other that trying to flog a few extra tickets to Championship fans. 

The Women's Challenge Cup final before the men's final allows the event to be Challenge Cup Final Day. 

[Mattrhino]

On 04/12/2021 at 16:14, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

It’s funny how Premier League Football fans manage at old grounds like Anfield and Elland Road but as soon as a Rugby League game is played there you hear a lot of moaning and complaining, fans of our game must be real snowflakes. Yes there isn’t a great deal of room in the seats and your a bit cramped in but I wouldn’t let that stop me enjoying a game.

Especially when most of us spend our time watching games in rickety old sheds or flatpack community stadiums.

ER is a good old fashioned stadium that holds a decent number of fans and has good hospitality nowadays.

[Eddie]

2 hours ago, Scubby said:

Having the Women's Challenge Cup final before the semi finals but a Challenge Cup losers knock out match before the actual final makes no sense other that trying to flog a few extra tickets to Championship fans. 

The Women's Challenge Cup final before the men's final allows the event to be Challenge Cup Final Day. 

Agreed in principle but I thought the whole point of the 1895 Cup was to sell a few more CC final tickets. If that’s still the case then which would sell more Wembley tickets - Saints v Leeds Women in the women’s CC final or Bradford v Widnes in the 1985 final? I’d have thought the latter. 

[whatmichaelsays]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

Agreed in principle but I thought the whole point of the 1895 Cup was to sell a few more CC final tickets. If that’s still the case then which would sell more Wembley tickets - Saints v Leeds Women in the women’s CC final or Bradford v Widnes in the 1985 final? I’d have thought the latter. 

The issue for me is more that the 1895 Cup was about as cheap and as unimaginative a way of arresting a decline in ticket sales as they could have come up with. It was something cooked up to sell to the sort of audience that already buys into the sport, rather than doing that scary thing of trying to appeal to other people. 

[Scubby]

3 hours ago, Eddie said:

Agreed in principle but I thought the whole point of the 1895 Cup was to sell a few more CC final tickets. If that’s still the case then which would sell more Wembley tickets - Saints v Leeds Women in the women’s CC final or Bradford v Widnes in the 1985 final? I’d have thought the latter. 

If Saints are in the Challenge Cup men's and women's final who is to say that more women and girls from St Helens may want to go? It is a very easy market to schools and very easy to get media coverage. Roll on 5-10 years and we may see a London women's team in the CC final and that could be promoted as a national story.

The 1895 Cup could be played as Game 1 of the semi finals day. Tickets are tickets if that is what the RFL wants?

[theswanmcr]

14 minutes ago, Scubby said:

The 1895 Cup could be played as Game 1 of the semi finals day. Tickets are tickets if that is what the RFL wants?

Totally agree with this. Play the 1895 Cup as part of the semi-final triple header - this does still give the game an importance and prestige and appeal for players to perform at a major stadium.

The women’s game and final has way more potential for growth and should be part of a Challenge Cup finals day at Wembley (with a wider weekend featuring wheelchair final too).

It a complete no-brainer for me.

[Scubby]

7 minutes ago, theswanmcr said:

Totally agree with this. Play the 1895 Cup as part of the semi-final triple header - this does still give the game an importance and prestige and appeal for players to perform at a major stadium.

The women’s game and final has way more potential for growth and should be part of a Challenge Cup finals day at Wembley (with a wider weekend featuring wheelchair final too).

It a complete no-brainer for me.

Wembley as a complex is big enough to house the wheelchair final too. Totally agree.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

2 hours ago, Scubby said:

The 1895 Cup could be played as Game 1 of the semi finals day. Tickets are tickets if that is what the RFL wants?

Isn't there a risk there could be the same team in both the 1895 Final and the Challenge Cup semi final?

Remember, Halifax made the semis in 2019.

[Scubby]

Just now, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Isn't there a risk there could be the same team in both the 1895 Final and the Challenge Cup semi final?

Remember, Halifax made the semis in 2019.

I think you have to be knocked out before the last 16 or something to qualify. I may be wrong?

If not, that is what it should be.

[theswanmcr]

5 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Isn't there a risk there could be the same team in both the 1895 Final and the Challenge Cup semi final?

Remember, Halifax made the semis in 2019.

Although that wasn’t your point I think this shows how the 1895 Cup is not, and should not be seen as, a trophy seemed worthy of being held at Wembley.

It is the pinnacle of RL thinking… a disjointed solution to a problem (increasing Cup Final crowds) that doesn’t really do that at all. It’s a knockout competition for those already knocked out, with a primary function to keep pro clubs happy rather than bring audiences to a major event.

[M j M]

5 hours ago, whatmichaelsays said:

The issue for me is more that the 1895 Cup was about as cheap and as unimaginative a way of arresting a decline in ticket sales as they could have come up with. It was something cooked up to sell to the sort of audience that already buys into the sport, rather than doing that scary thing of trying to appeal to other people. 

Don't really agree with this. It was designed to bring back what was missing from recent cup finals which has been fans of other clubs than the two finalists - fans who used to be everywhere on cup final day and seem to be relatively thin on the ground now.

[Eddie]

5 hours ago, theswanmcr said:

Totally agree with this. Play the 1895 Cup as part of the semi-final triple header - this does still give the game an importance and prestige and appeal for players to perform at a major stadium.

The women’s game and final has way more potential for growth and should be part of a Challenge Cup finals day at Wembley (with a wider weekend featuring wheelchair final too).

It a complete no-brainer for me.

As much as I love how the women’s game has been progressing, do you really think the women’s CC final will turn into an event that will help pack out Wembley (or Spurs)? As has been established the record crowd so far was around 4k, and the game was held in the North of England.  

[theswanmcr]

25 minutes ago, Eddie said:

As much as I love how the women’s game has been progressing, do you really think the women’s CC final will turn into an event that will help pack out Wembley (or Spurs)? As has been established the record crowd so far was around 4k, and the game was held in the North of England.  

Yeah I really genuinely do Eddie.

Womens RL has been slower off the mark than other sports but there is a general pattern. Football had 9k at Bristol just ten years ago - they are looking at 50k at Wembley this year. The move to Wembley gave it more prestige and saw a big leap from previous years of moving around grounds too.

We’re not football so need to do it our own way - and a double-header like in the RLWC is the way to do it.
Women’s sports in general are also the major growth areas (both participating and watching).

Give it two or three years and I think you’d see a big boost in spectator numbers especially with families and neutrals. Also the prestige of playing at Wembley would be a huge incentive for women players.

Sponsors would love it as would the BBC and, again like the RLWC, it would a real and obvious sign that the game is being taken seriously and is on a par with the men’s game at least in terms of its importance initially - and we’d see playing levels (as we are already) improve rapidly too.