Ref abuse

[RigbyLuger]

1 hour ago, dkw said:

that kind of attitude should be applauded, not abused. Really well done, at junior levels the game should be about enjoyment over results in every single game.

Parents rewarding their kids with payment for tries should be banned as well, as an off shoot.

[Therein73]

Abusing referees has ALWAYS been a part of the game......... Mostly from 'off-field' parties, but nowadays creeping in more & more from on-field participants as well..... I had a go at it many years ago and still marvel at the ignorance of spectators who believe they know the rules, but seriously don't have a clue ..... Bear in mind, there are 26 players to watch, a ball, tough judges (when you have them) to look out for and you need to keep the tackle count, remember all the signals and to tell the teams what tackle they are on........... Oh, and of course, remember and apply the laws of the game as well ......... Some speccies struggle to remember how many sugars their work mates asked for in their cuppa so we really should start giving the Refs a chance.......... But of course, we won't because then we'll have to accept that, for the most part, when we've lost - we've lost to the better team on the day.

Hey ho ............ A safe & happy Xmas all

[Marauder]

3 hours ago, David Dockhouse Host said:

We could debate many incidents in this game and decide the ref made an error. In fact you could do this with every game. Refs will make errors just as players do, we forgive a player knocking on but despise and criticise a ref for an error. 

Identifying an error in a game doesn't prove the ref is poor or cheated, it merely means they made a mistake. Some fans think this justifies screaming in their faces, some coaches believe their job is to badger the ref, I just find it bizarre.

 I'm not really on about the incident at the end with the referee, that was totally wrong and will be dealt with, my moan/rant/groan is not the odd decision wrong or even just the one that can change the complete outcome of a game, that can be put down to human error, but no one can tell me that all referees are straight down the line when officiating certain teams and I don't totally agree with referee's being bullet proof, what ever happened to the referee's reports.

Even though I know we need Referee's, we also need players and some get ###### off with some of the whistling standards these days, Personally I was blessed to have had some of the best during my playing days and Leef was up there with your Lindops, Whitfield’s and Russell Smith.

I also came across a few who cheated and swung the game with the little decisions that only one side got pulled for, the best I ever had against me/us, was a Westgate player was down injured in our in goal getting treatment, they kicked on the last tackle and the injured player got to his feet and tackled our full back who dropped the ball, the so called injured player grounded the ball and a try was awarded, coincident or what, the same referee became Westgate’s secretary when he retired.

[Marauder]

4 hours ago, David Dockhouse Host said:

All refs are subject to review.

There are processes in place, how else would they climb the ladder to the higher levels?

How often does this review happen, I have seen my old mate Steve Presley doing a bit of mentoring, the last time was when we had just been beat at Lock Lane by a couple of points in the Yorkshire cup.

[David Dockhouse Host]

1 hour ago, Marauder said:

How often does this review happen, I have seen my old mate Steve Presley doing a bit of mentoring, the last time was when we had just been beat at Lock Lane by a couple of points in the Yorkshire cup.

Im not sure but have seen reviewers at matches fairly often

[David Dockhouse Host]

1 hour ago, Marauder said:

 I'm not really on about the incident at the end with the referee, that was totally wrong and will be dealt with, my moan/rant/groan is not the odd decision wrong or even just the one that can change the complete outcome of a game, that can be put down to human error, but no one can tell me that all referees are straight down the line when officiating certain teams and I don't totally agree with referee's being bullet proof, what ever happened to the referee's reports.

Even though I know we need Referee's, we also need players and some get ###### off with some of the whistling standards these days, Personally I was blessed to have had some of the best during my playing days and Leef was up there with your Lindops, Whitfield’s and Russell Smith.

I also came across a few who cheated and swung the game with the little decisions that only one side got pulled for, the best I ever had against me/us, was a Westgate player was down injured in our in goal getting treatment, they kicked on the last tackle and the injured player got to his feet and tackled our full back who dropped the ball, the so called injured player grounded the ball and a try was awarded, coincident or what, the same referee became Westgate’s secretary when he retired.

The standards today are no worse than any other period, in fact I would say they are better. 

The game is faster, more rule, a more complicated ruck, players looking to trick the ref at every tackle, it's amazing they get so much right.

When I played we were told to never judge the ref, what does it matter win the game yourself rather than bleet about the ref even if they made lots of mistakes, they do even out. Funnily enough when people complain they don't mention the errors that went in their favour, if they truly want better standards rather than an advantage they should be equally as annoyed at a decision going for you as against. This is never done just like nobody wins because of the ref but many claim to lose because of the ref, therefore I don't value coaches and fans judgements of refs as much as qualified experienced reviewers. 

Refs will make errors and this will happen for ever, expecting it to change is a waste of energy, better to help support and encourage to improve all aspects of the game for everyone's enjoyment. Constant complaints and slagging off refs will never ever improve anything only drive more refs away.

[Curly perm]

I’ve been to two Pennine League games recently, having not been for a while, and some of the stuff aimed at the refs was disgraceful. Not just what was said, but how angry and intimidating it all was. Both refs looked pretty young. 

Some of the coaches’ shouts to the opposition players were horrific as well and the club are on Facebook asking for support, family club etc! How can I take my lad to that?! It’s just a sad state of affairs.

[Marauder]

3 hours ago, David Dockhouse Host said:

The standards today are no worse than any other period, in fact I would say they are better. 

The game is faster, more rule, a more complicated ruck, players looking to trick the ref at every tackle, it's amazing they get so much right.

When I played we were told to never judge the ref, what does it matter win the game yourself rather than bleet about the ref even if they made lots of mistakes, they do even out. Funnily enough when people complain they don't mention the errors that went in their favour, if they truly want better standards rather than an advantage they should be equally as annoyed at a decision going for you as against. This is never done just like nobody wins because of the ref but many claim to lose because of the ref, therefore I don't value coaches and fans judgements of refs as much as qualified experienced reviewers. 

Refs will make errors and this will happen for ever, expecting it to change is a waste of energy, better to help support and encourage to improve all aspects of the game for everyone's enjoyment. Constant complaints and slagging off refs will never ever improve anything only drive more refs away.

Really, how many super league referees do you see reffing on a Saturday afternoon in division 5 these days, we often got Russell Smith, Fred Lindop and all the other Yorkshire based top referees and we also had a lot of class that didn't do the pro games, the best ref I've seen in the last 5 years or more is Carl Hughes and last summer was his first season with a whistle. 

[Phil]

Ok slightly off topic but this contributed to lots of abuse aimed at me and also shows that coaches, spectators etc don’t always hear the interplay between ref and player.

I called a player and his captain to me, I was getting fed up of this players constant antics, messing around at the ptb, low level sarcastic dissent “oh GREAT call sir” etc 

“Leave it out now or I’ll be getting a card out and it won’t be yellow, understand?”

Once again the sarcastic response “Oh why not just send me off now?”

So I did, off he went, crowd and coaching staff are incandescent with rage. One of the contributors to this thread was there, after the match I was asked “Why did you send off our number 7?”

”Because he asked me to” I replied, shamefaced lad has to admit to mates etc that’s what happened, silly bu**er

[Griff]

On 14/12/2021 at 20:12, Impartial Observer said:

Chris joynts voluntary tackle at the GF

Nobody tackled him.

How can it be a voluntary tackle if there was no tackle ?

Armwaving doesn't count as a tackle.

[Llangennech]

20 minutes ago, Griff said:

Nobody tackled him.

How can it be a voluntary tacklle if there was no tackle ?

Armwaving doesn't count as a tackle.

Isn't there something in the law book that goes on about the spirit of the game? It was against the spirit of the occasion and he should have been penalised IMO. 

[Griff]

3 hours ago, LlanWests said:

Isn't there something in the law book that goes on about the spirit of the game? It was against the spirit of the occasion and he should have been penalised IMO. 

He leant into a tackle, expecting a collision, and Bradford players backed off and let him fall.

It was against the spirit of the occasion and they should have been penalised IMO.

[The Blues Ox]

It has been mentioned and I am sure Ref's can be influenced, its only human nature and its one of the reasons I tell my players to be nice to the refferees and also try to be as welcoming as I can myself towards them. At the end of the day if you have a group of people screaming abuse at you compared to a group that are been nice, in the heat of the moment who is the more likely to get those 50/50 calls? Also its not a good rep for a team to have when a ref does not want to ref certain teams.

[Wakefield Ram]

The best team pretty much always wins. I'd say it is very rare if a ref is "against" a team, why would they care who wins? They don't get League points or a win bonus? 

Here's another perspective. If the players, spectators and esp coaches shut up, the refs will be able to concentrate better rather than having to drown out the noise.

Anyway as I'm packing in reffing low-level club RU, I'm sure some of the coaches will be happy. Until they realise there isn't a queue of experienced perfect referees just waiting to take over. A few times I put my hand up because there was literally no ref available.

 

[topcentre21]

8 hours ago, The Blues Ox said:

It has been mentioned and I am sure Ref's can be influenced, its only human nature and its one of the reasons I tell my players to be nice to the refferees and also try to be as welcoming as I can myself towards them. At the end of the day if you have a group of people screaming abuse at you compared to a group that are been nice, in the heat of the moment who is the more likely to get those 50/50 calls? Also its not a good rep for a team to have when a ref does not want to ref certain teams.

Not always true I'm afraid.

I always tried to have a bit of banter with the refs in RL and got on with most, RU refs didn't seem as open to having a joke with or sometimes wouldn't even talk.

But my point is I played at some intimidating often hostile grounds and even hostile away crowds at our home games, the ref was certainly influenced and didn't like to give decisions against them teams.

On one occasion while playing away the opposition player dropped the ball, to which the ref picked it up gave it him back and said just play the ball!!! 

[Dunbar]

On 15/12/2021 at 09:50, Marauder said:

Yes no problem, we know that referee's are required to have a game, we also need players to have a game, players train in general twice a week and get scrutinised by their coach who decided if they'll get a game or not, who goes out and scrutinises the referee?

Maybe some of the older referee's should put something back into their discipline and go out and become a mentor.

Thanks for this and apologies for the late reply.

I would sum up my response like this. 

I don't think you can 'protect' players from referee's making poor calls any more than you can 'protect' ref's from having to call knock on's and forward passes from players... what can I say, people make mistakes.

[Marauder]

15 hours ago, Dunbar said:

Thanks for this and apologies for the late reply.

I would sum up my response like this. 

I don't think you can 'protect' players from referee's making poor calls any more than you can 'protect' ref's from having to call knock on's and forward passes from players... what can I say, people make mistakes.

I agree, players and referees need to gain respect from each other, it's not a one way street and IMO you can tell the difference between a referee who is truly in love with the game and the ones on a power trip.

We used to get one that used to send 2 off every game and normally from the same side, Im not sure if it's true but we got told he'd been moved on from the Pennine league and was officiating in the Yorkshire Sunday league when we first come across him (RV)

 

Sad thing about it, he could have been a good referee if it wasn't for his power trips.

[David Dockhouse Host]

32 minutes ago, Marauder said:

I agree, players and referees need to gain respect from each other, it's not a one way street and IMO you can tell the difference between a referee who is truly in love with the game and the ones on a power trip.

We used to get one that used to send 2 off every game and normally from the same side, Im not sure if it's true but we got told he'd been moved on from the Pennine league and was officiating in the Yorkshire Sunday league when we first come across him (RV)

 

Sad thing about it, he could have been a good referee if it wasn't for his power trips.

This seems to be a subjective opinion rather than something objective. Therefore we cannot say for sure that the ref was on a power trip, just your observation.

[Marauder]

2 hours ago, David Dockhouse Host said:

This seems to be a subjective opinion rather than something objective. Therefore we cannot say for sure that the ref was on a power trip, just your observation.

Coincidence that he always sent 2 off from the same side every game I was involved in or watched, one game v Bradley Arms he sent their coach and sponge man off leaving them with no one on the touch line, I also saw him send a guy off who was just walking his dog in the park.

[David Dockhouse Host]

2 hours ago, Marauder said:

Coincidence that he always sent 2 off from the same side every game I was involved in or watched, one game v Bradley Arms he sent their coach and sponge man off leaving them with no one on the touch line, I also saw him send a guy off who was just walking his dog in the park.

Maybe the sending offs were justified? 

Reminds me of coaches and fans saying the ref was biased as he gave their team 10 pens and ours 4, as if that's proof, it can be that the ref considered them all to be pens and 10 were one team and 4 the other.

If this ref was truly biased, it doesn't prove that there are always bent refs at any moment in time 

[Marauder]

29 minutes ago, David Dockhouse Host said:

Maybe the sending offs were justified? 

Reminds me of coaches and fans saying the ref was biased as he gave their team 10 pens and ours 4, as if that's proof, it can be that the ref considered them all to be pens and 10 were one team and 4 the other.

If this ref was truly biased, it doesn't prove that there are always bent refs at any moment in time 

Dud I say he was bias, if you check I said he would send 2 off every game and nearly every time from the same side, he wasn't bias, just power crazed and spoilt a lot of good games, 

[Wakefield Ram]

10 minutes ago, Marauder said:

Dud I say he was bias, if you check I said he would send 2 off every game and nearly every time from the same side, he wasn't bias, just power crazed and spoilt a lot of good games, 

Well the answer is become a ref yourself and show him how it should be done.

[Dunbar]

3 hours ago, Marauder said:

Coincidence that he always sent 2 off from the same side every game I was involved in or watched, one game v Bradley Arms he sent their coach and sponge man off leaving them with no one on the touch line, I also saw him send a guy off who was just walking his dog in the park.

If he always sent two off from the same side then he must have sent the dog off as well.

[David Dockhouse Host]

10 hours ago, Marauder said:

Dud I say he was bias, if you check I said he would send 2 off every game and nearly every time from the same side, he wasn't bias, just power crazed and spoilt a lot of good games, 

No you didn't say he was bias but that's the point I thought you were making.

If the players deserved to be sent off its the players who spoilt the game not the ref 

[Marauder]

7 hours ago, David Dockhouse Host said:

No you didn't say he was bias but that's the point I thought you were making.

If the players deserved to be sent off its the players who spoilt the game not the ref 

Mate he sent players for nothing