Catalans name their group for 2022

[Saint Toppy]

1 hour ago, Scubby said:

Catalans are trying to win Super League they cannot change history in 15 years.

Catalans all time appearances record holder is Remy Casty (French) followed by Gregory Mounis (French); Top try scorer is Vincent Duport (French); Record Points holders is Thomas Bosc (French). Challenge Cup winning Captain was Remy Casty (French), Lead Leaders Shield Captain was Benjamin Garcia (French). Lance Todd Trophy winner was Tony Gigot (French).

Their success and history is littered with very talented French players.

Nobody is asking them to change history, just fulfill their promises and justify why they were parachuted straight into SL instead of earning their place like everyone else.

If all we wanted was 'another team trying to win SL' then they could have put any team straight into SL. Why choose a french team over say a Cumbrian team, after all Cumbria has a long history of producing good quality SL players, they have strong amateur clubs, loyal & passionate fans etc. Imagine what a Cumbrian club could have achieved had they been parachuted in and granted 3 years exemption from relegation.

Is SL better off by having Catalans in than having a Cumbrian SL team ?

[Scubby]

20 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

Nobody is asking them to change history, just fulfill their promises and justify why they were parachuted straight into SL instead of earning their place like everyone else.

If all we wanted was 'another team trying to win SL' then they could have put any team straight into SL. Why choose a french team over say a Cumbrian team, after all Cumbria has a long history of producing good quality SL players, they have strong amateur clubs, loyal & passionate fans etc. Imagine what a Cumbrian club could have achieved had they been parachuted in and granted 3 years exemption from relegation.

Is SL better off by having Catalans in than having a Cumbrian SL team ?

Could a Cumbrian team draw 32,000 people to a regular league fixture? Could a Cumbrian team be the SL club with the highest turnover in the competition?

While people are worrying about whether Catalans are throwing in untried French kids into the team to fill some kind of phantom quota, the Dragons are currently dwarfing St Helens and Wigan in terms of commercial clout. From nothing they now turnover more than any RL club in Europe.

They are a full member of SL Europe like everyone else in the top competition. That means they have the same voting rights as Leeds, Wigan, Warrington, Hull et al. They are changing French RL, making more kids pick up rugby balls and dream of becoming professionals.

Toulouse becoming the next team in SL is down to Catalans being in SL. That means another 15-20 French players now have full time professional SL contracts.

The problem for a lot of people here is that they are threatening the status quo at the top and show no signs of going away.

[Saint Toppy]

1 hour ago, Scubby said:

Could a Cumbrian team draw 32,000 people to a regular league fixture? Could a Cumbrian team be the SL club with the highest turnover in the competition?

While people are worrying about whether Catalans are throwing in untried French kids into the team to fill some kind of phantom quota, the Dragons are currently dwarfing St Helens and Wigan in terms of commercial clout. From nothing they now turnover more than any RL club in Europe.

They are a full member of SL Europe like everyone else in the top competition. That means they have the same voting rights as Leeds, Wigan, Warrington, Hull et al. They are changing French RL, making more kids pick up rugby balls and dream of becoming professionals.

Toulouse becoming the next team in SL is down to Catalans being in SL. That means another 15-20 French players now have full time professional SL contracts.

The problem for a lot of people here is that they are threatening the status quo at the top and show no signs of going away.

Now you are talking utter guff, making things up.

TO have been around as a club almost as long as the original Catalan RL team. Catalans being in SL has had no bearing what so ever on TO gaining promotion to SL for 2022. They started at the lowest tier and earned their place in SL through promotion, and did it using a squad made up largely French players.

I'm sure you, like most on here think i'm anti-french, i'm not i'm just anti-Catalans. TO earned their place in the top tier and I actually look forward to watching them next year.

Catalans are just a fraud of a club. Parachuted into SL on the back of false promises that would even make a politician cringe and then given 3 years protection as well. All this "we'll bring in mega TV deals, we'll have 75% of our squad made up of French players so we can boost the national team" when they were vying for the opportunity - all a load of guff

They're here and commercially they may be doing OK now, but so what, they bring naff all else to SL. Even more galling when you also consider the grand old club of Widnes were dumped from SL in order to bring Catalans in. A club that has a long history of bringing through really top quality local players, a club with a history of giving their youngsters a chance to play regularly at the top level, a club with a strong amateur game around it, and sadly a club that never really recovered rom being dumped and now looks destined for a life in the Championship.

[Damien]

1 hour ago, Saint Toppy said:

Nobody is asking them to change history, just fulfill their promises

What promises? Have you a link to these promises? These promises keeps getting trotted out as a stick to beat Catalans with and I've yet to see any evidence of them being made.

[Scubby]

3 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

Now you are talking utter guff, making things up.

TO have been around as a club almost as long as the original Catalan RL team. Catalans being in SL has had no bearing what so ever on TO gaining promotion to SL for 2022. They started at the lowest tier and earned their place in SL through promotion, and did it using a squad made up largely French players.

I'm sure you, like most on here think i'm anti-french, i'm not i'm just anti-Catalans. TO earned their place in the top tier and I actually look forward to watching them next year.

Catalans are just a fraud of a club. Parachuted into SL on the back of false promises that would even make a politician cringe and then given 3 years protection as well. All this "we'll bring in mega TV deals, we'll have 75% of our squad made up of French players so we can boost the national team" when they were vying for the opportunity - all a load of guff

They're here and commercially they may be doing OK now, but so what, they bring naff all else to SL. Even more galling when you also consider the grand old club of Widnes were dumped from SL in order to bring Catalans in. A club that has a long history of bringing through really top quality local players, a club with a history of giving their youngsters a chance to play regularly at the top level, a club with a strong amateur game around it, and sadly a club that never really recovered rom being dumped and now looks destined for a life in the Championship.

Can you provide any single piece of evidence or reference? A link or a document that makes any reference to promises or stipulations regarding Catalans and French players in their match day 17 as a condition of their entry to SL?

If not, we have to assume you have invented it.

[ATLANTISMAN]

The way that the Dragons have increased their revenue streams over the last few years is incredible.

I spent an hour this morning going though their current sponsorship offers with the wife to help her decide what she would commit to for next season.

The range of different offers was fantastic with many new ideas that one hardly ever comes across and what impressed me also was their ability to get the prices that they are charging.

As part of the package she bought 4 VIP tickets for next season which includes ticket/dinner/drinks Total 13650 Euros ( £ 11500.00 approx) Thats £ 260.00 PP per match i would say at least a £ 200 profit for the club PP per match around £ 9K for the season.

Maybe 200 will take this option netting the club as a guess £ 440K per season and that's just one hospitality option they have 3 others at slightly less prices each will be full another 500 persons i would estimate

She has also done something similar with Toulouse who will also be packed to the rafters in their hospitality areas.

The above just put things into perspective at how far the Dragons have come in a competition where some clubs cannot even spend full cap.

Paul

[PECETTO]

7 hours ago, Saint Toppy said:

Excuse after excuse after excuse. Another 15 years from now people on here will still be trotting out the same old excuses why Catalans have next to no French players in their starting line up.

When they joined they had a target % of 1st team players eligible for France (i'm reluctant to fully trust Wiki as this says their target was 75% but I have a recollection of its being somewhere around this figure). For 2022 they'll have just 13 of their top 25 players eligible for France (52%). 15 years down and still nowhere near their target.

Boring after boring after boring… 

[JohnM]

17 hours ago, Saint Toppy said:

Nobody is asking them to change history, just fulfill their promises and justify why they were parachuted straight into SL instead of earning their place like everyone else.

If all we wanted was 'another team trying to win SL' then they could have put any team straight into SL. Why choose a french team over say a Cumbrian team, after all Cumbria has a long history of producing good quality SL players, they have strong amateur clubs, loyal & passionate fans etc. Imagine what a Cumbrian club could have achieved had they been parachuted in and granted 3 years exemption from relegation.

Is SL better off by having Catalans in than having a Cumbrian SL team ?

Yes. It's hard to imagine anyone spending a week in Workington just to watch them play.

[Saint Toppy]

16 hours ago, Scubby said:

Can you provide any single piece of evidence or reference? A link or a document that makes any reference to promises or stipulations regarding Catalans and French players in their match day 17 as a condition of their entry to SL?

If not, we have to assume you have invented it.

Where have I ever stated these were a condition of entry ? You've just made that up.

They 'sold' the RFL a great story to gain entry and the muppets at Red Hall fell for it hook line & sinker.

The only reason for admitting overseas teams into SL would be to expand the game internationally. Given Catalans have no intention of doing this by stacking their squad with Brits and Southern hemisphere players then what's the point in them being in SL, why even admit them in the first place ?

The RFL would have been better off working with their French equivalents to develop the French league and increase the standards across that instead of parachuting a 'french' team into the British league. If they'd improved the French league with 10-12 French teams and then allowed those teams to all compete in the latter stages of the Challenge cup against British clubs each year we would have a much larger number of higher quality French players in the game. This in turn would probably make those players more attractive to British clubs and we'd see more French players being signed up and be playing in SL. The overall effect would be massively better than the dogs dinner we have now of a Catalans team playing at the top level but largely playing non-french players each week, which does naff all to improve their national team (which in turn doesn't help England / Britain one bit in their attempts to catch up to Aus & NZ.).

[Scubby]

49 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

Where have I ever stated these were a condition of entry ? You've just made that up.

They 'sold' the RFL a great story to gain entry and the muppets at Red Hall fell for it hook line & sinker.

You have said a lot of things which you have been unable to verify including apparently now 'selling' something to the RFL as part of their bid.

If you could give us access to this kind of documentation maybe we could decide for ourselves? Why do you keep adding quote marks in your posts all the time? Where are you quoting this stuff from?

[Saint Toppy]

11 minutes ago, Scubby said:

You have said a lot of things which you have been unable to verify including apparently now 'selling' something to the RFL as part of their bid.

If you could give us access to this kind of documentation maybe we could decide for ourselves?

I'm trying to work out whether your just playing dumb or just have a poor grasp of the English language that you actually believe I was referring to anything being actually sold monetarily. 

[Scubby]

16 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

I'm trying to work out whether your just playing dumb or just have a poor grasp of the English language that you actually believe I was referring to anything being actually sold monetarily. 

All Super League clubs in 2009-2011 and 2012-14 were given SL places on bids, targets and promises submitted to the RFL. I'm sure you've also scrutinised these - including St Helens' bid - to ensure they have not sold the RFL a great story to gain entry to Super League. I'm sure those muppets at the RFL would have learned from being so badly deceived by Catalans in the past. 

[Davo5]

Saints fans doing what Saints fans do best.

Straight from the Eamonn McManus playbook of ridiculous rants,

 

[Scubby]

17 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

Saints fans doing what Saints fans do best.

Straight from the Eamonn McManus playbook of ridiculous rants,

 

It seems that despite every SL club being an equal 1/12 director of the SLE board - some clubs' equal holding is deemed greater than other clubs equal holding. I assume there are extra points awarded on location to the M62 epicentre which allows them to take the moral high ground. 

[Saint Toppy]

19 minutes ago, Scubby said:

All Super League clubs in 2009-2011 and 2012-14 were given SL places on bids, targets and promises submitted to the RFL. I'm sure you've also scrutinised these - including St Helens' bid - to ensure they have not sold the RFL a great story to gain entry to Super League. I'm sure those muppets at the RFL would have learned from being so badly deceived by Catalans in the past. 

I must admit your comedy is quite good sometimes, trying to justify Catalans gaining entry into SL under a criteria just for them against a set of criteria for all clubs entry at another time.

You can try and dress this up as much as you like but admitting Catalans is just another in a long line of shambolic RFL decisions, dreamed up and administered by idiots. I would probably have some respect for the club if they had either gained entry playing under the same rules as everyone else like Toulouse, or if they had been given entry and actually done something that benefitted French RL and were churning out decent numbers of good quality french players and building a strong french national team that provided England / GB a strong northern hemisphere opponent. But they're not, they provide absolutely nothing that another British club wouldn't have provided had they been given that opportunity.

[Scubby]

4 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

I must admit your comedy is quite good sometimes, trying to justify Catalans gaining entry into SL under a criteria just for them against a set of criteria for all clubs entry at another time.

You can try and dress this up as much as you like but admitting Catalans is just another in a long line of shambolic RFL decisions, dreamed up and administered by idiots. I would probably have some respect for the club if they had either gained entry playing under the same rules as everyone else like Toulouse, or if they had been given entry and actually done something that benefitted French RL and were churning out decent numbers of good quality french players and building a strong french national team that provided England / GB a strong northern hemisphere opponent. But they're not, they provide absolutely nothing that another British club wouldn't have provided had they been given that opportunity.

Wow, you really do hate the fact that Catalans are now the biggest grossing RL club in Europe. Catalans decision to cover a region against a small town is really paying dividends. In 10 to 15 years time how big could they be?  

This is a real quote from a real article with Catalans owner. The link to the real article is earlier in this thread.

Exactly, how many private partners do you count?

We will most certainly exceed this famous mark of 400 and therefore all our forecasts. We're going to beat all the records. For a few years now, we have been at 4 million euros from private partnerships and I think that in 2022, we will be at 5 million coming almost exclusively from the department. It's really an extraordinary performance from our teams.

 

[Davo5]

1 hour ago, Saint Toppy said:

I must admit your comedy is quite good sometimes, trying to justify Catalans gaining entry into SL under a criteria just for them against a set of criteria for all clubs entry at another time.

You can try and dress this up as much as you like but admitting Catalans is just another in a long line of shambolic RFL decisions, dreamed up and administered by idiots. I would probably have some respect for the club if they had either gained entry playing under the same rules as everyone else like Toulouse, or if they had been given entry and actually done something that benefitted French RL and were churning out decent numbers of good quality french players and building a strong french national team that provided England / GB a strong northern hemisphere opponent. But they're not, they provide absolutely nothing that another British club wouldn't have provided had they been given that opportunity.

Yeah because a Superleague Europe would be really credible solely made up of teams from York’s/Lancs.

 

[Scubby]

3 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

Yeah because a Superleague Europe would be really credible solely made up of teams from York’s/Lancs.

 

Don't forget Cumbria and those huge population belts

[Saint Toppy]

1 hour ago, Scubby said:

Wow, you really do hate the fact that Catalans are now the biggest grossing RL club in Europe. Catalans decision to cover a region against a small town is really paying dividends. In 10 to 15 years time how big could they be?  

This is a real quote from a real article with Catalans owner. The link to the real article is earlier in this thread.

Exactly, how many private partners do you count?

We will most certainly exceed this famous mark of 400 and therefore all our forecasts. We're going to beat all the records. For a few years now, we have been at 4 million euros from private partnerships and I think that in 2022, we will be at 5 million coming almost exclusively from the department. It's really an extraordinary performance from our teams.

 

Who cares how much money they earn, in 10-15 years they'll still be spending it on a 1st team packed with non-french players, they'll still bring no fans to any British games and the national team will still be as poor as ever.

So back to my original point, aside from them currently being financially stable what benefit do they actually bring to SL ?

[Davo5]

9 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Don't forget Cumbria and those huge population belts

As a proud Cumbrian I’d have loved a Superleague team but it would have taken a decade for us to produce enough players and we’d still be relying heavily on players from Lancs/York’s & overseas to be remotely competitive.

[Davo5]

10 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

Who cares how much money they earn, in 10-15 years they'll still be spending it on a 1st team packed with non-french players, they'll still bring no fans to any British games and the national team will still be as poor as ever.

So back to my original point, aside from them currently being financially stable what benefit do they actually bring to SL ?

Yeah because Superleague is full of financially stable clubs capable of signing big name stars,how did I miss that.

[Scubby]

Just now, Davo5 said:

As a proud Cumbrian I’d have loved a Superleague team but it would have taken a decade for us to produce enough players and we’d still be relying heavily on players from Lancs/York’s & overseas to be remotely competitive.

Exactly mate. Hade the game wanted a Cumbrian SL team they could have made it happen by working with the area, offering massive financial incentives and allowances to allow them to compete. They probably would have got investments from the local councils in the area too. They didn't because it is all talk and ultimately clubs are self serving, short sighted ######

Now some folk are criticising Catalans for doing exactly that and as with all discussions it usually ends with - what do they do for us and how many away fans do they bring? Very sad. 

[Damien]

37 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

So back to my original point, aside from them currently being financially stable what benefit do they actually bring to SL ?

You've asked this many times and it has been answered many times by various people.

[Ray Cashmere]

22 hours ago, Saint Toppy said:

Nobody is asking them to change history, just fulfill their promises and justify why they were parachuted straight into SL instead of earning their place like everyone else.

If all we wanted was 'another team trying to win SL' then they could have put any team straight into SL. Why choose a french team over say a Cumbrian team, after all Cumbria has a long history of producing good quality SL players, they have strong amateur clubs, loyal & passionate fans etc. Imagine what a Cumbrian club could have achieved had they been parachuted in and granted 3 years exemption from relegation.

Is SL better off by having Catalans in than having a Cumbrian SL team ?

This is your most absurd reasoning yet.

By whatever metric you choose, Catalans are now one of the big clubs capable of winning Super League.

Plenty of clubs have had the time in the competition to be one: Salford, Castleford, Wakefield

Plenty of clubs have had the resources to do so and not managed it: Hull FC, Huddersfield, Leigh

None of these clubs have been able to combine consistent off-field revenue, on-field competitiveness, attendances and attracting star players.

There is nothing to suggest the Cumbrian clubs could. That isn't to say they don't bring a lot to rugby league. They do, like the above clubs I've highlighted (one of which being my own), but you can't simultaneously want northern hemisphere RL/ Super League to grow and be critical of a club that has established itself as a big club. 

[Ray Cashmere]

40 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

Who cares how much money they earn, in 10-15 years they'll still be spending it on a 1st team packed with non-french players, they'll still bring no fans to any British games and the national team will still be as poor as ever.

So back to my original point, aside from them currently being financially stable what benefit do they actually bring to SL ?

We don't have a full-time professional competition if clubs don't generate commercial revenue. 

All it does is make it increasingly clear that your actual point is 'I don't like Catalans' rather than 'what do they actually bring to SL?'

That's fine. You don't have to. Just say it rather than dressing it up as something else.