West Wales Raiders - laughing stock

[OriginalMrC]

6 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

It's the RFL who are laughing stock here, who gave them permission to rename and relocate and thought oh West wales, sound as a pound. West Wales! even the Raiders moniker was already in use (I mean clubs sharing the likes of Rovers etc is acceptable as was done eons ago, all a tad shabby as per)  who thought all this would be a good idea? small population dispersed widely across a large area thats quite a trek from anywhere else where people live in the Uk? Should have stayed in the South Wales (Swansea / Cardiff area) or been allowed to fold......on that note, no idea why Coventry suddenly felt the need to change to Midlands, ridiculous. 

The Midlands branding has been discussed in depth elsewhere and the club will be based in Birmingham going forward. 

I've been critical of how West Wales are run but that is from a desire to see them improve and succeed. Ultimately they have the money to bankroll the operation, and good facilities, so they have as much right as anyone else to be there. I'd rather the RFL give clubs a chance then none at all

 

[wiganermike]

26 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

It's the RFL who are laughing stock here, who gave them permission to rename and relocate and thought oh West wales, sound as a pound. West Wales! even the Raiders moniker was already in use (I mean clubs sharing the likes of Rovers etc is acceptable as was done eons ago, all a tad shabby as per)  who thought all this would be a good idea? small population dispersed widely across a large area thats quite a trek from anywhere else where people live in the Uk? Should have stayed in the South Wales (Swansea / Cardiff area) or been allowed to fold......on that note, no idea why Coventry suddenly felt the need to change to Midlands, ridiculous. 

West Wales Raiders already existed as a community club while South Wales Scorpions/Ironmen were in League 1. They (WWR) then took over the South Wales Ironmen club (which was failing) and chose to stay in Llanelli and continue with their West Wales Raiders brand as they had their own ground to play at and make revenue from, something the South Wales club had not had. As such the Raiders would have been an established club that at least some people in the Llanelli area would have been familiar with. Stepping up from community level is tough enough as has been shown not just in the case of WWR and to re-brand the club at the same time by not continuing with the WWR name they had already been playing under would have made it tougher still.

[Smudger06]

3 minutes ago, wiganermike said:

West Wales Raiders already existed as a community club while South Wales Scorpions/Ironmen were in League 1. They (WWR) then took over the South Wales Ironmen club (which was failing) and chose to stay in Llanelli and continue with their West Wales Raiders brand as they had their own ground to play at and make revenue from, something the South Wales club had not had. As such the Raiders would have been an established club that at least some people in the Llanelli area would have been familiar with. Stepping up from community level is tough enough as has been shown not just in the case of WWR and to re-brand the club at the same time by not continuing with the WWR name they had already been playing under would have made it tougher still.

Even so, they should have said you can change to West Wales but we've already got a club called Raiders. Small point I know but all these little points always add up in RL. Take care of the little things and the big things won't materialise as nearly as often. 

[wiganermike]

7 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

Even so, they should have said you can change to West Wales but we've already got a club called Raiders. Small point I know but all these little points always add up in RL. Take care of the little things and the big things won't materialise as nearly as often. 

The club in Llanelli were already called West Wales Raiders so were not re-branding (they effectively replaced the Ironmen club after buying their assets) and would be known to locals and sponsors as Raiders so a name change could have been detrimental.

While having two clubs using the same nickname isn't ideal it doesn't really affect anything too much unless one club is much larger and more successful than the other and it becomes hard to escape their shadow. Had they been West Wales Rhinos for example then they may have found it more of a problem to distinguish themselves from Leeds when trying to improve awareness of the club. No offence meant to Barrow but they are not likely to be widely known enough for it to cause confusion between the two clubs at present. Someone mentions Rhinos and more people will think Rhinos=Leeds than would be the case for Raiders=Barrow. If the club decided at some stage that using Raiders was holding them back then it would be up to them to make a change.

[steve oates]

On 22/01/2022 at 18:00, Damien said:

I'm not sure I agree with some of this. I'm not sure how serious some of these expansion attempts were and London under Hughes has just seen a lot of money wasted on rented venues for little return. Gary Hetherington also left Sheffield a couple of years before they won the Challenge Cup so its not like he just gave up, Leeds came calling. I do agree with the general sentiment though when it comes to money.

What every failed expansion club has in common is a lack of finance and/or no ground. Having one of those is a struggle but having neither becomes near impossible and makes it hard to amount to anything.  Clubs like Newcastle, so far anyhow, have the golden combination of being well backed and have a permanent ground. Unfortunately that happens all too rarely.

I do apologise for previously not replying to you.

Your observations pretty much condemn our league one "expansion" clubs to oblivion bar any club with a rich owner i.e. Hughes at London and Kurdi at Newcastle (maybe even the gentleman now at Birmingham) but the point I didn't get round to making due to a wave of indignance and rudeness that seems to accompany all "expansion" discussions, was about the SKY funding for clubs. AFAIK and as far as I have looked it up it appears that funding levels for League one clubs have at least gone down, if not disappeared altogether for this coming season 2022.

A number of expansion clubs are seemingly not "well backed" with no grounds of their own but they do seem to be riding out the loss of SKY money which is where I believed some may have been doomed. Again as always corrections welcome on this, especially the new SKY funding levels for clubs whatever they are?. Who do you believe amongst all lower league clubs (not just league one) fail to have "adequate private financial backing and a permanent ground??" 

[Damien]

46 minutes ago, steve oates said:

I do apologise for previously not replying to you.

Your observations pretty much condemn our league one "expansion" clubs to oblivion bar any club with a rich owner i.e. Hughes at London and Kurdi at Newcastle (maybe even the gentleman now at Birmingham) but the point I didn't get round to making due to a wave of indignance and rudeness that seems to accompany all "expansion" discussions, was about the SKY funding for clubs. AFAIK and as far as I have looked it up it appears that funding levels for League one clubs have at least gone down, if not disappeared altogether for this coming season 2022.

A number of expansion clubs are seemingly not "well backed" with no grounds of their own but they do seem to be riding out the loss of SKY money which is where I believed some may have been doomed. Again as always corrections welcome on this, especially the new SKY funding levels for clubs whatever they are?. Who do you believe amongst all lower league clubs (not just league one) fail to have "adequate private financial backing and a permanent ground??" 

Well no it doesn't and I'm not sure how you take that from my post. I said Newcastle seem to have the golden combination of being well backed and having a permanent home. You can have a rich owner and/or permanent home but without either you are up against it and will struggle to amount to anything.

League 1 is also a different kettle of fish as it should be a development league at the bottom of the professional pyramid. However the clubs in it should certainly be looking to grow and develop their infrastructure and this should certainly include a permanent home where they can generate revenue. Moving from ground to ground or playing at a RU ground where they get no revenue isn't going to advance them as a club, although I can understand it as a necessity initially. 

If clubs can survive in League 1 as is then they obviously have enough financial backing and if that means expanding the games footprint and having clubs in Wales and Cornwall then that surely is a good thing in its own right. However they will need real financial backing to go further and/or income streams from a permanent home.

[Swansea Jack]

I have been a loyal supporter of Rugby League in South Wales since 2006. Crusaders- Scorpions- Ironmen and now Raiders. With six days to go before the start of the new season against Swinton do we have team or a coach. As an example take a look at the West Wales Raiders web site.

i deserve better than this.

[Damien]

15 minutes ago, Swansea Jack said:

I have been a loyal supporter of Rugby League in South Wales since 2006. Crusaders- Scorpions- Ironmen and now Raiders. With six days to go before the start of the new season against Swinton do we have team or a coach. As an example take a look at the West Wales Raiders web site.

i deserve better than this.

You do and the game in Wales does.

[steve oates]

21 hours ago, Damien said:

Well no it doesn't and I'm not sure how you take that from my post. I said Newcastle seem to have the golden combination of being well backed and having a permanent home. You can have a rich owner and/or permanent home but without either you are up against it and will struggle to amount to anything.

League 1 is also a different kettle of fish as it should be a development league at the bottom of the professional pyramid. However the clubs in it should certainly be looking to grow and develop their infrastructure and this should certainly include a permanent home where they can generate revenue. Moving from ground to ground or playing at a RU ground where they get no revenue isn't going to advance them as a club, although I can understand it as a necessity initially. 

If clubs can survive in League 1 as is then they obviously have enough financial backing and if that means expanding the games footprint and having clubs in Wales and Cornwall then that surely is a good thing in its own right. However they will need real financial backing to go further and/or income streams from a permanent home.

Thank you for an excellent post. Thanks to the end of lockdown I had a good night last night in a "hostelry" and it appears that there has been no SKY money allocated to League one, but of course this does not stop any of the chairmen increasing their own levels of funding to mitigate this action. The cynical view is that if any of the League one clubs start to break ranks that may be a problem as others may follow. 

Not sure what SKY money may have gone the the Championship clubs?? Anyone??

[Smudger06]

1 hour ago, Swansea Jack said:

I have been a loyal supporter of Rugby League in South Wales since 2006. Crusaders- Scorpions- Ironmen and now Raiders. With six days to go before the start of the new season against Swinton do we have team or a coach. As an example take a look at the West Wales Raiders web site.

i deserve better than this.

 

[Marauder]

On 08/01/2022 at 18:36, Jughead said:

I find it hard to have a go at what is likely a volunteer at a part time club, most likely one whose knowledge of Rugby League is limited at best. 

Mistakes happen, they’ve acknowledged it and made a bit of a joke about themselves too, so fair play for that. 

Top comment, the guy instead of knocking them should take his superior knowledge and help them out.

[Marauder]

23 hours ago, Damien said:

Well no it doesn't and I'm not sure how you take that from my post. I said Newcastle seem to have the golden combination of being well backed and having a permanent home. You can have a rich owner and/or permanent home but without either you are up against it and will struggle to amount to anything.

League 1 is also a different kettle of fish as it should be a development league at the bottom of the professional pyramid. However the clubs in it should certainly be looking to grow and develop their infrastructure and this should certainly include a permanent home where they can generate revenue. Moving from ground to ground or playing at a RU ground where they get no revenue isn't going to advance them as a club, although I can understand it as a necessity initially. 

If clubs can survive in League 1 as is then they obviously have enough financial backing and if that means expanding the games footprint and having clubs in Wales and Cornwall then that surely is a good thing in its own right. However they will need real financial backing to go further and/or income streams from a permanent home.

I don't think it should be a development league, 

 

[welshmagpie]

50 minutes ago, Marauder said:

Top comment, the guy instead of knocking them should take his superior knowledge and help them out.

Mate, I and 3 notable others have this week trust me. We have best intentions on helping, just want the best.

An ex-L1 coach has messaged them this week to see if they need assistance, no response at all not even a thank you. I feel hears have been buried in the sand.  

[Impartial Observer]

Just seen them say on twitter they are announcing three player signings today at 2,4 & 6, not sure though if that it the time or their squad numbers

[Swansea Jack]

58 minutes ago, Marauder said:

Top comment, the guy instead of knocking them should take his superior knowledge and help them out.

To which club do you refer. At 80 years of age I feel that my chances of volunteering are limited. BUT I have hardly missed a Raiderrs home game and I feel that my continual support through the turnstile deserves better.

[Marauder]

4 hours ago, Swansea Jack said:

To which club do you refer. At 80 years of age I feel that my chances of volunteering are limited. BUT I have hardly missed a Raiderrs home game and I feel that my continual support through the turnstile deserves better.

I refer to the author of the post, the guy doing the knocking and even at 80 your little bit may just be the little bit that pulls them through.

[Marauder]

4 hours ago, welshmagpie said:

Mate, I and 3 notable others have this week trust me. We have best intentions on helping, just want the best.

An ex-L1 coach has messaged them this week to see if they need assistance, no response at all not even a thank you. I feel hears have been buried in the sand.  

Can anyone contact them and ask the questions 

[welshmagpie]

2 hours ago, Marauder said:

Can anyone contact them and ask the questions 

Said L1 coach had a reply this morning, merely ‘thanks and will catch up soon’

Thats progress however looking at this evening’s signings, the barrel is being truly scraped (no disrespect to these lads at all but the quality isn’t there yet and they’ve left it too late)

As of 18:00 they’ve got 14 names on the team list for Saturday… a busy evening of chasing awaits. 

[Smudger06]

46 minutes ago, welshmagpie said:

Said L1 coach had a reply this morning, merely ‘thanks and will catch up soon’

Thats progress however looking at this evening’s signings, the barrel is being truly scraped (no disrespect to these lads at all but the quality isn’t there yet and they’ve left it too late)

As of 18:00 they’ve got 14 names on the team list for Saturday… a busy evening of chasing awaits. 

Many thanks for the updates. Hopefully they can get a couple of trialists to cover the bench if needed.... 

[Moscow01]

Good luck to the lads that have signed but bar one or two players their squad is miles below what’s needed to be competitive at this level. I reckon we’ll see a few 100-0 results this season. Such a shame. 

[Impartial Observer]

8 hours ago, Swansea Jack said:

To which club do you refer. At 80 years of age I feel that my chances of volunteering are limited. BUT I have hardly missed a Raiderrs home game and I feel that my continual support through the turnstile deserves better.

Forger volunteering ,looks like you may get a game if you want one  

[Marauder]

2 hours ago, welshmagpie said:

Said L1 coach had a reply this morning, merely ‘thanks and will catch up soon’

Thats progress however looking at this evening’s signings, the barrel is being truly scraped (no disrespect to these lads at all but the quality isn’t there yet and they’ve left it too late)

As of 18:00 they’ve got 14 names on the team list for Saturday… a busy evening of chasing awaits. 

I remember tipping up to watch Doncaster play and four of us got roped in to play for them, look on the bright side, 14 is better than 13 and then the bus driver may have his boots in the boot.

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

12 hours ago, welshmagpie said:

Said L1 coach had a reply this morning, merely ‘thanks and will catch up soon’

Thats progress however looking at this evening’s signings, the barrel is being truly scraped (no disrespect to these lads at all but the quality isn’t there yet and they’ve left it too late)

As of 18:00 they’ve got 14 names on the team list for Saturday… a busy evening of chasing awaits. 

It’s obviously not ideal still trying to put a squad together 2 months out from the start of the season isn’t ideal (I don’t think the cup fixture is seen as much more than a bit of pre season game) but at the same time teams like West Wales Raiders and Cornwall will be criticised if they sign young local players as they’re not good enough, and they’ll be criticised if they bring in a load of players from the North of England for not developing their own players, they can’t win, but as I said the current situation is far from ideal.

[Anita Bath]

Its embarrassing that not all teams in the Rugby League enter the professional game’s cup competition, and just as embarrassing when some participating clubs as a ‘pre season’ game.

 

Which other sports allow new entities into their professional leagues as opposed to existing clubs who have developed through the amateur/community game. Its called proving you deserve to enter the league.

 

Our game will continue to attract criticism while we enter ‘pop up’ teams straight into the league based entirely on someone indicating they are willing to provide financial backing.

[Damien]

3 minutes ago, Anita Bath said:

Which other sports allow new entities into their professional leagues as opposed to existing clubs who have developed through the amateur/community game. Its called proving you deserve to enter the league.

 

Our game will continue to attract criticism while we enter ‘pop up’ teams straight into the league based entirely on someone indicating they are willing to provide financial backing.

The bottom tier of the professional game is League 1 and is the starting point. We do not have a pyramid from the amateur game.

Our amateur game is full of teams from towns with existing professional clubs. The likes of St Pats, St Judes etc serve a completely different purpose and exist for different reasons than any prospective professional club. They also do not want to be professional clubs. It's not like Football or RU where we have a true pyramid and leagues of aspiring clubs from Birmingham, Bristol or even Bolton and Blackburn looking to join.