West Wales Raiders - laughing stock

[Sammo]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

 Because they weren't playing Transatlantic with no home games and no central funding?

Toronto Arrows played their entire season out of Atlanta, so not entirely incomparable 

[Damien]

4 minutes ago, Sammo said:

Toronto Arrows played their entire season out of Atlanta, so not entirely incomparable 

The MLR salary cap is about £370k GBP. The SL salary cap in 2020 was £2.1 million and Toronto had zero central funding, no home games and huge expenses. I'd say they are pretty incomparable.

[Tommygilf]

13 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

We can't attract the Super wealthy. The ones with huge amounts of spare cash, influence and connections to really drive RL....so we must really dig in at grass roots level, volunteerism, cooperation, solidarity is the only way forward, once everything is built and the magnificent hard work is done the billionaire sh/tbags then come swarming.

Why can't we attract the Super Wealthy?

Number 1 reason why: We don't allow them to spend their money. Elon Musk could own Hunslet or Whitehaven and he wouldn't be able to use his wealth to improve their position drastically.

The Cap protects the status of the already big clubs and cons a few others into supporting it by saying that it is their only way of being competitive.

That doesn't stop the communitarianism you describe above being able to take place.

I also think that there is often a hostility or suspicion towards outsiders which is not endearing. Football has it too, but it is big enough and rich enough to shoulder those problems.

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, Smudger06 said:

We can't attract the Super wealthy. The ones with huge amounts of spare cash, influence and connections to really drive RL....so we must really dig in at grass roots level, volunteerism, cooperation, solidarity is the only way forward, once everything is built and the magnificent hard work is done the billionaire sh/tbags then come swarming.

Maybe if there was a transatlantic competition (eg with Toronto and Ottawa in, not at all fanciful) with a bigger salary cap it might attract some super wealthy people. But you’re right as long as the clubs are engaged in a race to the bottom with a fearful attitude about anything more than 5 miles from the M62 there is no chance. 
 

Edit - I hadn’t read Tommy’s post above before I wrote this, which summed the situation up much more articulately. 

Edited January 28, 2022 by Eddie

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, Sammo said:

Probably not the place, but am interested in what you are referring to here?

You could start here. I'll not be discussing further on here!

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/oct/21/major-league-rugby-us-glendale-raptors-withdrawal

[Jughead]

Four more players announced today. Still no sign of a head coach. 

[Keith989]

4 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

 Because they weren't playing Transatlantic with no home games and no central funding?

The Arrows didn't have home games either? They have their own logistical nightmares that they have to overcome, just like the wolfpack. Let's just face it, covid spead up the inevitable unfortunately. It was fun following the pack while they lasted. 

[Toby Chopra]

2 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Why can't we attract the Super Wealthy?

Number 1 reason why: We don't allow them to spend their money. Elon Musk could own Hunslet or Whitehaven and he wouldn't be able to use his wealth to improve their position drastically.

The Cap protects the status of the already big clubs and cons a few others into supporting it by saying that it is their only way of being competitive.

To be fair to the sport, I'm not sure that's entirely true for the example of the clubs you give: Toronto shows that for a few million dollars Elon could quickly propel Haven to Superleague, and even build them a stadium and training ground. On any measure he could utterly transform them. 

What he couldn't do is then use his wealth to drive the team even higher. Indeed, on the same count he couldn't really do much for a big club like Wigan if he bought them because of the limits the salary cap imposes.

We never really got to see how Toronto would have coped with that limit and whether it would have sealed their doom in the longer term, and that's where the problem lies in my view.  

 

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

To be fair to the sport, I'm not sure that's entirely true for the example of the clubs you give: Toronto shows that for a few million dollars Elon could quickly propel Haven to Superleague, and even build them a stadium and training ground. On any measure he could utterly transform them. 

What he couldn't do is then use his wealth to drive the team even higher. Indeed, on the same count he couldn't really do much for a big club like Wigan if he bought them because of the limits the salary cap imposes.

We never really got to see how Toronto would have coped with that limit and whether it would have sealed their doom in the longer term, and that's where the problem lies in my view.  

 

He could get them to super league, but no further than Derek Beaumont could with Leigh.

[Jughead]

35 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

He could get them to super league, but no further than Derek Beaumont could with Leigh.

That’s genuinely mental and a comparison I never thought I’d see. 

[Tommygilf]

19 minutes ago, Jughead said:

That’s genuinely mental and a comparison I never thought I’d see. 

I know, but it being basically true epitomises the problem

[DEANO]

11 hours ago, Hello said:

Such huge debts that they were asking to be able to pay MORE wages. Anyway, it is normal for big sporting clubs to have debts - look at the huge debts of Barcelona, a massive club.  And none of this is the point anyway, the fact is that a new team was set up very successfully a couple of thousand miles away and after just three years already had crowds in the Championship that embarassed most of your ideal lock-off-the-heartlands-from-civilisation world where your dream is non-expansion and steady overall decline of the sport. Others, including myself, welcomed those many thousands of new Toronto fans to the sport. And to say covid hasn't had an impact, blimey where do you start......

I assume Barcelona pay their players

[theswanmcr]

6 minutes ago, DEANO said:

I assume Barcelona pay their players

Can we get this thread back on to West Wales Raiders?

Looks like a lot of their signings (along with London Skolars and Cornwall) are from the student/community game. Can’t seem many pros from the north being enticed down. The reality of funding cuts hitting? These three are going to get some serious scores against them this season.

[DEANO]

3 minutes ago, theswanmcr said:

Can we get this thread back on to West Wales Raiders?

Looks like a lot of their signings (along with London Skolars and Cornwall) are from the student/community game. Can’t seem many pros from the north being enticed down. The reality of funding cuts hitting? These three are going to get some serious scores against them this season.

Err you’ve just mentioned 2 other teams

[theswanmcr]

45 minutes ago, DEANO said:

Err you’ve just mentioned 2 other teams

Fair enough you got me!

[Hello]

2 hours ago, DEANO said:

I assume Barcelona pay their players

Yep just like TWP did before a totally unprecedented and unforeseeable global shutdown

[wiganermike]

9 hours ago, Hello said:

Yep just like TWP did before a totally unprecedented and unforeseeable global shutdown

That subject has been done to death on this forum. Please can people stop arguing about it and derailing this thread. If you want to argue about that then please start a separate thread on it and do it there.

On the subject of WWR we should get an indicator of the strength of the squad they have assembled so far in relation to the stronger League 1 clubs tomorrow when they host Swinton in the cup.

[Angelic Cynic]

They have put out a tweet asking for stewards and ball boys/girls.

I wonder who the acting head coach will be?

It seems they have recruited more young English players this year from the students game,than Welsh students and from the other code.

Does this mean other clubs,like Salford,are taking the young Welsh Academy players?

I think Swinton may score quite a few points,tomorrow.

[theswanmcr]

45 minutes ago, Angelic Cynic said:

They have put out a tweet asking for stewards and ball boys/girls.

I wonder who the acting head coach will be?

It seems they have recruited more young English players this year from the students game,than Welsh students and from the other code.

Does this mean other clubs,like Salford,are taking the young Welsh Academy players?

I think Swinton may score quite a few points,tomorrow.

The posts actually just says “ball boys”. Deary me.

[OriginalMrC]

1 hour ago, Angelic Cynic said:

They have put out a tweet asking for stewards and ball boys/girls.

I wonder who the acting head coach will be?

It seems they have recruited more young English players this year from the students game,than Welsh students and from the other code.

Does this mean other clubs,like Salford,are taking the young Welsh Academy players?

I think Swinton may score quite a few points,tomorrow.

I don't think it's best thing to post in the eve of your first game of the season. 

Their recruitment has been slap dash. Probably a consequence of not having a head coach. Your recruitment decisions should come from the head coach. As it stands any head coach coming in now is going to have to work with a load of players they haven't signed. 

Agree that it's going to be a big scoreline tomorrow. Swinton will be tough for anyone but especially when you haven't trained or got a head coach! 

[Hello]

9 hours ago, wiganermike said:

That subject has been done to death on this forum. Please can people stop arguing about it and derailing this thread. If you want to argue about that then please start a separate thread on it and do it there.

On the subject of WWR we should get an indicator of the strength of the squad they have assembled so far in relation to the stronger League 1 clubs tomorrow when they host Swinton in the cup.

Fair enough but I wasn't the one who brought TWP up, just responding to what I perceive to be false, if forums aren't for debate then they are weak. Also, a polite request to perhaps highlight the posts of those who "derail" in the first place instead of picking on somebody who responded.

[EssexRL]

22 hours ago, theswanmcr said:

Can we get this thread back on to West Wales Raiders?

Looks like a lot of their signings (along with London Skolars and Cornwall) are from the student/community game. Can’t seem many pros from the north being enticed down. The reality of funding cuts hitting? These three are going to get some serious scores against them this season.

This is a really important point. Non heartland teams struggle to find players that can compete at L1. Skolars benefited from Broncos when they were full time and from a link with Wigan but not longer. The model of recruiting from student/community teams does not make you competitive - as All Golds and Hemel.

[The storm]

2 hours ago, EssexRL said:

This is a really important point. Non heartland teams struggle to find players that can compete at L1. Skolars benefited from Broncos when they were full time and from a link with Wigan but not longer. The model of recruiting from student/community teams does not make you competitive - as All Golds and Hemel.

Cornwall are also recruiting a lot of students 

I personally would rather have the british army and the british navy in that division

[EssexRL]

2 minutes ago, The storm said:

Cornwall are also recruiting a lot of students 

…because that’s all they’ve got. This is one of the key barriers to expansion - where do players come from. 
 

TS + I suspect armed forces rosters mean that they wouldn’t be able to feature in a league. 

[The storm]

13 hours ago, EssexRL said:

…because that’s all they’ve got. This is one of the key barriers to expansion - where do players come from. 
 

TS + I suspect armed forces rosters mean that they wouldn’t be able to feature in a league. 

And of course it would be a big ask to ask a local rugby union player to suddently play rugby league. 

Im not saying there are not some quality players in unions regional leagues, but they are few and far between and if not on the pathways of the big union clubs, then we would only be picking up the scraps.