West Wales Raiders - laughing stock

[DEANO]

Absolute shambles. An embarrassment to the game. 

[Death to the Rah Rah's]

I really feel sorry for West Wales, yet another failed club in a non-traditional RL area - when will we ever learn! 

They obviously need help, and quickly!!!

I think I've said before that these expansionist clubs should be linked in with Super League partners for at least the first 5 years of their existence where they have access to season long loans of their junior players as well as access to their coaches and marketing team.

Its not always about winning every game, but these clubs need to compete as how can you market a sided that is being humiliated on the field every week.

The RFL really do need a kick up the ###### for allowing these teams into the league without any structures in place as they are set up to fail from day one!

the time has maybe come to take a long hard look at professional RL and go back to 2 divisions

Edited April 11, 2022 by Death to the Rah Rah's

[Jughead]

As much as certain clubs, West Wales included, need some assistance from the governing bodies, it’s worth remembering that they’re at fault themselves. They’ve been woefully run by this particular owner themselves and you could only give some people so much help. 

Edited April 11, 2022 by Jughead

[langpark]

Is a relocation to Cardiff a possibility? 

[OriginalMrC]

1 hour ago, Death to the Rah Rah's said:

I really feel sorry for West Wales, yet another failed club in a non-traditional RL area - when will we ever learn! 

They obviously need help, and quickly!!!

I think I've said before that these expansionist clubs should be linked in with Super League partners for at least the first 5 years of their existence where they have access to season long loans of their junior players as well as access to their coaches and marketing team.

Its not always about winning every game, but these clubs need to compete as how can you market a sided that is being humiliated on the field every week.

The RFL really do need a kick up the ###### for allowing these teams into the league without any structures in place as they are set up to fail from day one!

the time has maybe come to take a long hard look at professional RL and go back to 2 divisions

West Wales are where they are due to mismanagement. The club has money and pay players more than other clubs above them. They also could access loan or DR players and choose not to. They had no preseason and didn't sign any players despite losing the best players they had. They put in place a coaching team and forgot they needed a head coach!

The most annoying thing about this whole situation is yet again the naysayers are out hammering 'expansion'. You'd think West Wales will learn from it and do something but sadly they won't. 

[Death to the Rah Rah's]

1 hour ago, Jughead said:

As much as certain clubs, West Wales included, need some assistance from the governing bodies, it’s worth remembering that they’re at fault themselves. They’ve been woefully run by this particular owner themselves and you could only give some people so much help. 

well surely the RFL are again at fault and need to have some form of mechanism in place to put clubs 'on notice' to get their act together or revoke their membership of the RFL.

Same rule also needs to be applied to some of the more established clubs who have also bounced from one crisis to the next and are in some respects professional in name only.

This might also help spur some of the local authorities to give these clubs some financial aid to get a permanent home base from which to develop both on and off the field.

 

[sgorpioncaerdyddrob]

1 hour ago, OriginalMrC said:

West Wales are where they are due to mismanagement. The club has money and pay players more than other clubs above them. They also could access loan or DR players and choose not to. They had no preseason and didn't sign any players despite losing the best players they had. They put in place a coaching team and forgot they needed a head coach!

The most annoying thing about this whole situation is yet again the naysayers are out hammering 'expansion'. You'd think West Wales will learn from it and do something but sadly they won't. 

Whilst I would question the management of the club (ever since the appointment of its first head coach), to say they pay more than other clubs above them and turn down loans or DR players is just not true. They have one of the smallest budgets in the semi-pro game and receive next to no assistance from the RFL. They don't have the benefit of relying on heartlands players like North Wales do, so have to develop locals from scratch. They are in a largely rural area with one of the poorest economies in the UK, at about the furthest point from the North of England on this island. The club's main financial asset, a social club it owns on site in a largely residential area away from the town centre that they share with a 2nd tier Welsh football league side is hardly going to be a 'cash cow' for the club either, and the ground is owned by the town council. 

What people in the North of England need to understand is that if you keep limiting the sport's geographical spread, it will become irrelevant and die out, not make the core any more secure. Cumbria have had over a century, yet none of their sides have been at the top level regularly for over 35 years

[gingerjon]

Just now, sgorpioncaerdyddrob said:

Whilst I would question the management of the club (ever since the appointment of its first head coach), to say they pay more than other clubs above them and turn down loans or DR players is just not true. They have one of the smallest budgets in the semi-pro game and receive next to no assistance from the RFL. They don't have the benefit of relying on heartlands players like North Wales do, so have to develop locals from scratch. They are in a largely rural area with one of the poorest economies in the UK, at about the furthest point from the North of England on this island. The club's main financial asset, a social club it owns on site in a largely residential area away from the town centre that they share with a 2nd tier Welsh football league side is hardly going to be a 'cash cow' for the club either, and the ground is owned by the town council. 

What people in the North of England need to understand is that if you keep limiting the sport's geographical spread, it will become irrelevant and die out, not make the core any more secure. Cumbria have had over a century, yet none of their sides have been at the top level regularly for over 35 years

We could spread the game far and wide.

Llanelli would still be an outpost. Because that's what Llanelli is.

That's not having a go at the place, that's just a fact that isn't going to change any time soon.

So, you can't set up and run a club from there and then have no realistic plans to overcome that reality. Or, if you do set up a club and lack those realistic plans, the outcome will look a lot like West Wales Raiders.

[JonM]

3 minutes ago, sgorpioncaerdyddrob said:

about the furthest point from the North of England on this island. 

Widnes is closer to Llanelli than to Newcastle. Skolars and Cornwall will spend a lot longer sat in a coach than WWR in any given season, I'm sure.

[OriginalMrC]

2 hours ago, sgorpioncaerdyddrob said:

Whilst I would question the management of the club (ever since the appointment of its first head coach), to say they pay more than other clubs above them and turn down loans or DR players is just not true. They have one of the smallest budgets in the semi-pro game and receive next to no assistance from the RFL. They don't have the benefit of relying on heartlands players like North Wales do, so have to develop locals from scratch. They are in a largely rural area with one of the poorest economies in the UK, at about the furthest point from the North of England on this island. The club's main financial asset, a social club it owns on site in a largely residential area away from the town centre that they share with a 2nd tier Welsh football league side is hardly going to be a 'cash cow' for the club either, and the ground is owned by the town council. 

What people in the North of England need to understand is that if you keep limiting the sport's geographical spread, it will become irrelevant and die out, not make the core any more secure. Cumbria have had over a century, yet none of their sides have been at the top level regularly for over 35 years

West Wales were paying Rangi Chase £20-25k a year. That's equivalent to nearly half the playing budget of some clubs. Most clubs in league one can only dream of shelling out that sort of money. Several players have been on £500+ a game in recent seasons so they have not had one of the smallest budgets in the game. Maybe the current squad are being paid a lot less, I don't know, but a lot of money has been thrown at the playing side without success. 

No one is expecting miracles but there has to be some sort of progress year on year. Last season I felt they were going in the right direction but the wheels fell off, the coach and half the squad left and they are where they are now unfortunately 

[RigbyLuger]

1 minute ago, OriginalMrC said:

West Wales were paying Rangi Chase £20-25k a year.

Well, at least they didn't pay him for too long.

[sgorpioncaerdyddrob]

Rangi Chase getting £25k and players getting £500 a game in Llanelli? Sorry, you're just not serious or credible. Samuel barely paid that at SL level in Bridgend

[sgorpioncaerdyddrob]

3 hours ago, JonM said:

Widnes is closer to Llanelli than to Newcastle. Skolars and Cornwall will spend a lot longer sat in a coach than WWR in any given season, I'm sure.

No it's not (3h 9 mins Widnes- Newcastle v 3h 48 at a push, and only Cornwall will travel more miles than West Wales in League 1 this year. 

Somebody else who doesn't know their Geography South of Sheffield. 

Edited April 11, 2022 by sgorpioncaerdyddrob

[Toby Chopra]

3 hours ago, sgorpioncaerdyddrob said:

They have one of the smallest budgets in the semi-pro game and receive next to no assistance from the RFL. They don't have the benefit of relying on heartlands players like North Wales do, so have to develop locals from scratch. They are in a largely rural area with one of the poorest economies in the UK, at about the furthest point from the North of England on this island. The club's main financial asset, a social club it owns on site in a largely residential area away from the town centre that they share with a 2nd tier Welsh football league side is hardly going to be a 'cash cow' for the club either, and the ground is owned by the town council.

The things you highlight, though, aren't down to bad luck, or bad intentions of others, but simple facts. By definition it's going to be hard/impossible, unless you have a shed load of cash, or some other clever plan. What was WWR's plan?

As a southerner, of course I want the game to expand, but it seems to me that WWR was always a real long shot for all the reason you mention.    

[sgorpioncaerdyddrob]

3 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

The things you highlight, though, aren't down to bad luck, or bad intentions of others, but simple facts. By definition it's going to be hard/impossible, unless you have a shed load of cash, or some other clever plan. What was WWR's plan?

As a southerner, of course I want the game to expand, but it seems to me that WWR was always a real long shot for all the reason you mention.    

Absolutely, I'm not from Llanelli or West Wales, but I know I would never choose to set up a semi pro rugby league club there. Their amateur side was one of the weaker and smaller Welsh Conference clubs. Additionally, they've consistently made poor decisions regards personnel recruitment on and off the field, lack financial resources and not looked competitive in League 1 since the start. 

[OriginalMrC]

1 hour ago, sgorpioncaerdyddrob said:

Rangi Chase getting £25k and players getting £500 a game in Llanelli? Sorry, you're just not serious or credible. Samuel barely paid that at SL level in Bridgend

Believe whatever you want mate no skin off my nose. 

[JonM]

1 hour ago, sgorpioncaerdyddrob said:

No it's not (3h 9 mins Widnes- Newcastle v 3h 48 at a push, and only Cornwall will travel more miles than West Wales in League 1 this year. 

Somebody else who doesn't know their Geography South of Sheffield. 

Widnes to Llanelli is 159 miles, Widnes to Newcastle is 169.  (And Wood green is 197 miles, Penryn 336).  I used to regularly travel from South Wales to watch Widnes (Dw i'n siarad Cymraeg, hefyd).

Seems to me that Cornwall have shown the importance of a credible coach. SL clubs providing young loan players want them to be training and playing in the right environment, and that seems more of an issue than the distance.

[sgorpioncaerdyddrob]

Which would be great if we were traveling as the crow flies, and if you do travel regularly through Wales to Northern England, you would know how much slower the roads are this side of the border. 

Kernow certainly made a good coach signing and some experience in McInally, but they are still shipping 40-60 in their first two games. I don't see them being much better off than Raiders come the end of the season.

SW Scorpions made the playoffs in their first season in 2010, benefitting from local player loans from the Crusaders SL side. Hasn't come close since. 

[The Future is League]

7 hours ago, Death to the Rah Rah's said:

well surely the RFL are again at fault and need to have some form of mechanism in place to put clubs 'on notice' to get their act together or revoke their membership of the RFL.

Same rule also needs to be applied to some of the more established clubs who have also bounced from one crisis to the next and are in some respects professional in name only.

This might also help spur some of the local authorities to give these clubs some financial aid to get a permanent home base from which to develop both on and off the field.

 

West Wales WILL get their act together, but need a bit more time.

If a vast majority of their squad are Welsh that can only be good for the game in Wales in the long term

[DEANO]

8 hours ago, sgorpioncaerdyddrob said:

Whilst I would question the management of the club (ever since the appointment of its first head coach), to say they pay more than other clubs above them and turn down loans or DR players is just not true. They have one of the smallest budgets in the semi-pro game and receive next to no assistance from the RFL. They don't have the benefit of relying on heartlands players like North Wales do, so have to develop locals from scratch. They are in a largely rural area with one of the poorest economies in the UK, at about the furthest point from the North of England on this island. The club's main financial asset, a social club it owns on site in a largely residential area away from the town centre that they share with a 2nd tier Welsh football league side is hardly going to be a 'cash cow' for the club either, and the ground is owned by the town council. 

What people in the North of England need to understand is that if you keep limiting the sport's geographical spread, it will become irrelevant and die out, not make the core any more secure. Cumbria have had over a century, yet none of their sides have been at the top level regularly for over 35 years

You’ve hit the mail on the head there mate. All these things against them you wonder why they ever thought it would work. As for the Cumbrian sides, why do they have to be in the top flight. I’m quite happy watching my team at any level as long as they are competitive 

[yipyee]

5 hours ago, sgorpioncaerdyddrob said:

No it's not (3h 9 mins Widnes- Newcastle v 3h 48 at a push, and only Cornwall will travel more miles than West Wales in League 1 this year. 

Somebody else who doesn't know their Geography South of Sheffield. 

Last time I checked you measure distance in metres, Km or miles etc...

Not sure that time is relevant to geography.

Please requote with actual distances. If its shorter but takes longer just say that, it makes you more credible

[welshmagpie]

47 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

West Wales WILL get their act together, but need a bit more time.

If a vast majority of their squad are Welsh that can only be good for the game in Wales in the long term

Here’s the thing, the vast majority of the squad are not at all local.

Of the 17 that got beat by Oldham only 8 were Welsh. The raiders attract a lot of English students especially from the south west.

Sadly for Raiders, welsh talent skips their link in the supply chain. Any decent junior coming through either goes back to RU or enters the WRL academy and immediately links with Salford’s reserve team. Raiders isn’t an option for most. 

[Eddie]

5 minutes ago, welshmagpie said:

Here’s the thing, the vast majority of the squad are not at all local.

Of the 17 that got beat by Oldham only 8 were Welsh. The raiders attract a lot of English students especially from the south west.

Sadly for Raiders, welsh talent skips their link in the supply chain. Any decent junior coming through either goes back to RU or enters the WRL academy and immediately links with Salford’s reserve team. Raiders isn’t an option for most. 

Quite a few go to Halifax too iirc? 

[The Future is League]

6 minutes ago, welshmagpie said:

Here’s the thing, the vast majority of the squad are not at all local.

Of the 17 that got beat by Oldham only 8 were Welsh. The raiders attract a lot of English students especially from the south west.

Sadly for Raiders, welsh talent skips their link in the supply chain. Any decent junior coming through either goes back to RU or enters the WRL academy and immediately links with Salford’s reserve team. Raiders isn’t an option for most. 

That is disappointing

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

3 minutes ago, welshmagpie said:

Here’s the thing, the vast majority of the squad are not at all local.

Of the 17 that got beat by Oldham only 8 were Welsh. The raiders attract a lot of English students especially from the south west.

Sadly for Raiders, welsh talent skips their link in the supply chain. Any decent junior coming through either goes back to RU or enters the WRL academy and immediately links with Salford’s reserve team. Raiders isn’t an option for most. 

This is the challenge for clubs in development areas. Midlands looked a class above Cornwall at the weekend, but only had 1 Midlander in their squad to my knowledge. Cornwall and West Wales have a much higher proportion of 'local' players in the squads, but are being heavily defeated at present. Not sure what the make-up of Skolars' squad is at the moment, but saw they were heavily defeated at home at the weekend. The situation with Broncos going part-time presumably means they're fishing in the same limited pond for players now. There just doesn't seem to be enough local talent coming through to underpin these expansion teams, so the choice either seems to be go local and risk getting thumped every week (e.g. Cornwall and Raiders), or get experienced players from the north in order to be competitive (e.g. Midlands). For me there needs to be solid foundations of multiple community clubs all running juniors at several age groups underpinning those pro teams. It isn't feasible for the pro clubs to facilitate that development work, given their limited resources, so the RFL should be doing something about it. And if the RFL are washing their hands of that development responsibility, then they shouldn't have allowed these clubs in their elite competition IMO. Either invest in development and do it properly, or don't do it. The half-baked approach that throws new clubs in at the deep end to see if they can sink or swim hasn't exactly been a roaring success. We've seen Oxford, Hemel and Gloucester all disappear. Time will tell what happens with these other clubs. It would be brilliant if one of them could be a beacon of development with loads of juniors coming through in the years to come. It's just so frustrating that they have the dice loaded so heavily against them with minimal help from the governing body.