West Wales Raiders - laughing stock

[Jughead]

25 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

Why is it a joke? It's just a fact that 90% (or more?) of league activity in England is in a narrow geographical area. 

But if we're losing players even there because our offer is so unappealing then we're already contracting.

And we're not alone in this. Union and lower league football have also increased regionalisation in recent time to support participation. 

To be clear, I'm not saying we should kick teams out immediately based on location, but our current structure doesn't serve best purpose. It seems crazy to me that our third tier - which is verging on amateur with some boot money - has much more travelling than our second tier.

I don't want to start another structure thread, bu to me spreading ourselves too thin in tier 3 potentially has significant downsides in terms of attracting and maintaining talent. 

I agree that if changes do come it'll probably be a crude contraction, because that's how we roll, but that still doesn't mean how we do things now is working. 

 

I think it comes across as a bit dismissive of players and clubs not based across one stretch of motorway having to do something potentially up to ten times a year that you don’t appear to like certain players and clubs doing up to four times a year. I suppose the “fear” if you like is that clubs not from the heartlands would be cast off in their own league, as some people have suggested previously, which many think is tantamount to pulling the plug on them altogether, which is something many wouldn’t want to see and would see as the game shrinking.

I think there is some merit in what you say though. For Hunslet or Swinton, for example, paying out for three or four lengthy away trips a year, West Wales and Cornwall, for example, are paying out for ten length away trips a year. Given the reduction in funding for clubs, the way League One schedules it’s fixtures is worth a discussion but would certainly require losing the straight home and away scheduling. It may well also be something worth thinking about when the next TV deal is sorted for 2024 and beyond. It is very tough to implement though in an eleven team competition like League One and maybe Conferences may be something looked at in future. 

[Toby Chopra]

28 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

It’s a joke because you have to drop down to ward level to find anything resembling an area where rugby league is dominant.

The heartlands don’t exist except as a fanciful notion.

It's not about saying it's dominant - I agree that's the case almost nowhere - it's about saying there are concentrations of the game in certain places that give it critical mass and depth - and the agglomeration effect which means the total is often more than the sum of its parts. 

It is, possibly, arguable that a pound spent in the "heartland" might go further for those reasons than elsewhere. I didn't used to think this, and I don't think it's an excuse to cut an run from everywhere outside the M62. But we should take the low hanging fruit where we can.

As someone also based in the south [waves from other end of Sussex] surely you can see that in some places you could promote league with twice the effort but see no return. The UK is a mature sporting market. I've changed my mind in recent time and feel that outside the heartland, league should focus on amateur and youth participation and some major events. Pro and semi pro (and barely pro) southern clubs in the RFL tiers are less crucial for the health of the game to me, as they have almost no impact on public consciousness. 

[gingerjon]

6 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

It's not about saying it's dominant - I agree that's the case almost nowhere - it's about saying there are concentrations of the game in certain places that give it critical mass and depth - and the agglomeration effect which means the total is often more than the sum of its parts. 

It is, possibly, arguable that a pound spent in the "heartland" might go further for those reasons than elsewhere. I didn't used to think this, and I don't think it's an excuse to cut an run from everywhere outside the M62. But we should take the low hanging fruit where we can.

As someone also based in the south [waves from other end of Sussex] surely you can see that in some places you could promote league with twice the effort but see no return. The UK is a mature sporting market. I've changed my mind in recent time and feel that outside the heartland, league should focus on amateur and youth participation and some major events. Pro and semi pro (and barely pro) southern clubs in the RFL tiers are less crucial for the health of the game to me, as they have almost no impact on public consciousness. 

Thing is, though, and I take on board a lot of that, but we were so so close with the RL Conference. Genuinely. That showed what can be done with some direction, not a huge amount of money, and a structure that works.

I'm not sure we'll get it back. Ever.

But, equally, I'm not sure that it's really so easy in the 'heartlands' either. In many cases it seems they've had money, and it would be hard to argue that most of the RFL's focus this past decade has been anything other than a heartland focus, and yet ... here we are.

And, to put it back on topic: WWR are an embarrassment.

So there. Something to offend everyone. 

[sgorpioncaerdyddrob]

On 23/04/2022 at 19:34, theswanmcr said:

We should have the same - shame we don’t have a national pyramid below League One level.

Absolutely. This is something the Southern Conference can aspire to given time and the resources mentioned previously, places like Bath, Worcester, Torfaen, Swindon, Bristol all currently involved.

84-4 in the Welsh derby. Better than expected to be fair, was easily expecting the ton the way Crusaders have started the season. 

Edited May 4 by sgorpioncaerdyddrob

[stevecl]

4 minutes ago, sgorpioncaerdyddrob said:

Absolutely. This is something the Southern Conference can aspire to given time and the resources mentioned previously, places like Bath, Worcester, Torfaen, Swindon, Bristol all currently involved.

84-4 in the Welsh derby. Better than expected to be fair, was easily expecting the ton the way Crusaders have started the season. 

I admire your optimism but when an eighty point drubbing can be described as "better than expected" it does rather justify the theme of this thread.

[OriginalMrC]

36 minutes ago, sgorpioncaerdyddrob said:

Absolutely. This is something the Southern Conference can aspire to given time and the resources mentioned previously, places like Bath, Worcester, Torfaen, Swindon, Bristol all currently involved.

84-4 in the Welsh derby. Better than expected to be fair, was easily expecting the ton the way Crusaders have started the season. 

84-4 to be better than expected is not a statement I ever thought I'd see 

[DEANO]

Only 48-0 if they postpone. Now that  is an improvement

[henage]

All teams get hammered from time to time .

Few keep getting hammered .

Its a tough sport to keep taking heavy defeats .

York have had a few over the years (74 - 4 v Giants)

HKR / FC have , Eagles etc etc . These are the teams i follow .

Lack of rugby league players is the main reason .

Maybe the pro (pro used loosely) administrators could have a vision that allows clubs far away from the  games strong holds to put down roots , improve standards etc .

If England don't do well in this years world cup (or the entertainment is poor) I fear the game will become even smaller on the participation front .

 

 

 

[sgorpioncaerdyddrob]

Doesn't get any easier today v Keighley but it's a another chance to take a tentative step forward. Again completing the sets and cutting out the simple errors to keep it respectable. 

 

*edit 4-46 - considering they put 96 on Skolars last week it sounds like they took on some of that 'advice'... 

On a brighter note, Just like to big up the Demons ladies who performed so admirably in the Nines tournament last week, beating Bradford Bulls and stuffing Leigh Miners before running a top York City Knights WSL side close!!

Edited May 7 by sgorpioncaerdyddrob

[sgorpioncaerdyddrob]

The slightly better than expected result may have been down a full competent Welsh contingent of match officials for what I think must be the first time. Great to see Christopher get an opportunity, certainly better than many of the people who have come down over the years here. 

[RS]

Bump 

[Jughead]

How many loanees did Cornwall have? I’ve seen it mentioned that they have a fair few. The bottom of League One, albeit as an expansion mini league, of Cornwall, West Wales and London should be interesting. 

[sgorpioncaerdyddrob]

YYYYYYYYEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Win no. 2 is in the books! 

Edited May 15 by sgorpioncaerdyddrob

[gingerjon]

Didn't see this coming. Happy to eat a bit of humble pie.

[Scubby]

Well done to all at West Wales! 

[iamguyster]

Great result. They've worked really hard and not given up, even when getting absolutely walloped. My lad ended the game with a bandaged head but was absolutely buzzing afterwards.

[Anita Bath]

Congratulations to players, officials and fans who have stuck it out and kept on flying the flag. It must feel great to have your firstwin of the season on the board.

[Toby Chopra]

Wow, didn't see that coming, but that's why we play the games! Enjoy tonight WWR. 

[theswanmcr]

Fair play and congratulations on their win today. Cornwall never looked like scoring but WWR we’re by far the better side and fully deserved.

[clogdance]

Well done West Wales Raiders, to nil a team away from home is impressive at ANY level. 

[FearNothing]

Absolutely brilliant result today, I really hope they can get another couple of wins this year

[HKR AWAY DAYS]

First win since 20th July 2019 and a clean sheet. Good on them! 

[RayCee]

4 hours ago, sgorpioncaerdyddrob said:

YYYYYYYYEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Could you please translate, my Welsh is a tad rusty.

[tiffers]

8 hours ago, theswanmcr said:

Fair play and congratulations on their win today. Cornwall never looked like scoring but WWR we’re by far the better side and fully deserved.

You were clearly watching a different game to me. Cornwall bombed 2 if not 3 dead certs.

[OriginalMrC]

1 hour ago, tiffers said:

You were clearly watching a different game to me. Cornwall bombed 2 if not 3 dead certs.

Cornwall could still be playing now and wouldn't have scored. Due to dreadful decision making on their part and good defence from West Wales I agree they never looked like scoring.