Kayakman Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 2 hours ago, Sammo said: This might be controversial… I think we need to step away from the idea that league is inherently ‘better’ than union - clearly some think that it is, but the sports proliferation worldwide suggests that many don’t. All this does is invite complacency - ‘of course fans will turn up, it’s quicker than union’ or ‘all they need to do is see two games and they’ll be converted’ Note- I am an active fan of both league and union By relying on union as a base, all you’ll do is drive more players to their clubs - where does someone who catches an NRL match go to learn to play rugby in the US? Their local union club You got it all wrong Sammo!...I wasn't talking about the players I was talking about the novitiate fan in a North American context. Did it ever occur to you that a local club could run Union and League sides? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammo Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 22 minutes ago, Kayakman said: You got it all wrong Sammo!...I wasn't talking about the players I was talking about the novitiate fan in a North American context. Did it ever occur to you that a local club could run Union and League sides? How many do? 20? 30? Across the whole of North America? This is exactly what I’m talking about - there needs to be a base level of grassroots participation in place before professionalism to maximise its sustainability. Amateur clubs are where the sport’s community is grown from and are where it’s resilience is. Where pro teams fail, amateur clubs remain. At a certain point a top tier is needed to continue a sport’s growth, but we aren’t at that stage in NA yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Picture Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 14 hours ago, Kayakman said: For Big Picture: RL is the better game for the new fan...League is two hours and they have to sell the whole experience as we all know....Union is just too boring. If you can get them back for a second game of League you got 'em. It can go here if done properly. You're not telling me anything I didn't already know there. I've only ever tried to watch Union a few times and I was only able to sit through a whole match of it once, and that was RU leg of the 1996 cross-code challenge between Bath and Wigan. Marketing the game as "rugby" is a mistake and not only for the reason which @Sammogives. To a good many North Americans rugby is an inferior sport we gave up a few generations ago, so getting them interested in "rugby" won't likely work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReaper Posted January 29, 2022 Share Posted January 29, 2022 8 hours ago, Sammo said: I think we need to step away from the idea that league is inherently ‘better’ than union I've said exactly that few times before. If you're targeting existing rugby union fans, leading off with "that thing you like? It sucks, this is better" is not going to get you very far. If you're targeting total rugby newbies, they have no preconceived notions, and leading off with a comparison to something else they know nothing about is both meaningless, and introduces the comparison / inferiority complex from the start. The only relating to rugby union should done in the exact same way as any relating to football, hockey , or combat sports - "Hey, if you like fast paced with big hits, you'll like this too!". "Too", not "instead of", not "better". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayakman Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 I guess I stand corrected on many fronts then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adelaide Tiger Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 Seeing as I have got nothing to do this afternoon here is my take on the discussion. Since the late 1990’s there has been a structured amateur competition and the grass roots game failed to grow and flourish to create a full time professional league. Was it the lack of funds? Was it the lack of competent people? Was it because the transition between amateur status and professional status was too great? Was it all of those issues and more? If so, then how can you expect a purely grass roots approach implemented today to overcome such obstacles, I would suggest that it couldn’t. Let’s imagine that you have 20 keen enthusiastic people that want to start a grass root RL club in 20 locations and they each have access to funds, facilities and players to create 20 clubs with grass roots involvement. There is no guarantee that there will be a critical mass of clubs that can turn full time professional at the same time in future years. You will probably have a repeat of clubs like the Bulls, Knights, Wildcats and Axemen who each had individual periods of success but were unable, or unwilling, to be fully professional. This is not the 19th century when sports across the world had plenty of time to embed themselves in local communities at an amateur level and through many years of organic growth - in an era when teams with little income could compete at the same level - led to the creation of national leagues with fully professional clubs. We are talking about the US where money talks and sport at a professional level is all important. So IMHO the way forward is to create a critical mass of professional clubs that can inspire green shoots of interest. But and it’s a big BUT, and this is where it currently falls down is that there is not a united governing body with competent people that can sell a vision and long term strategy to secure the appropriate level of investment to a) initially create a stable foundation for clubs to establish squads and fulfil fixtures b) grow the game to a point where other investors wish to be involved c) getting RL onto television will make the game become more visible to potential players of both sexes and all ages to establish those green shoots. This approach has to be more preferable than relying on volunteers - with the games best interest at heart - at amateur clubs to be at the vanguard and to somehow achieve this themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayakman Posted January 30, 2022 Share Posted January 30, 2022 6 hours ago, Adelaide Tiger said: Seeing as I have got nothing to do this afternoon here is my take on the discussion. Since the late 1990’s there has been a structured amateur competition and the grass roots game failed to grow and flourish to create a full time professional league. Was it the lack of funds? Was it the lack of competent people? Was it because the transition between amateur status and professional status was too great? Was it all of those issues and more? If so, then how can you expect a purely grass roots approach implemented today to overcome such obstacles, I would suggest that it couldn’t. Let’s imagine that you have 20 keen enthusiastic people that want to start a grass root RL club in 20 locations and they each have access to funds, facilities and players to create 20 clubs with grass roots involvement. There is no guarantee that there will be a critical mass of clubs that can turn full time professional at the same time in future years. You will probably have a repeat of clubs like the Bulls, Knights, Wildcats and Axemen who each had individual periods of success but were unable, or unwilling, to be fully professional. This is not the 19th century when sports across the world had plenty of time to embed themselves in local communities at an amateur level and through many years of organic growth - in an era when teams with little income could compete at the same level - led to the creation of national leagues with fully professional clubs. We are talking about the US where money talks and sport at a professional level is all important. So IMHO the way forward is to create a critical mass of professional clubs that can inspire green shoots of interest. But and it’s a big BUT, and this is where it currently falls down is that there is not a united governing body with competent people that can sell a vision and long term strategy to secure the appropriate level of investment to a) initially create a stable foundation for clubs to establish squads and fulfil fixtures b) grow the game to a point where other investors wish to be involved c) getting RL onto television will make the game become more visible to potential players of both sexes and all ages to establish those green shoots. This approach has to be more preferable than relying on volunteers - with the games best interest at heart - at amateur clubs to be at the vanguard and to somehow achieve this themselves. A well thought out cognitive response taking in all the permutations and combinations facing the game today in an ever changing environment.....I could not agree more and that is the way I see it too...I guess I am just a little more blunt in my postulations. Not only is your way the best way forward Adelaide...it is the only way in the North American context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
langpark Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 On 25/01/2022 at 21:11, welshmagpie said: Tickets went on sale yesterday. Did anyone buy theirs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DlEHARD Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 I looked but couldn't find any details or links to it. It's now 22 Feb in the US. The NARL website is still under construction. DIEHARD / TITAN / MAROON / KANGAROO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerjon Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 2 hours ago, langpark said: Tickets went on sale yesterday. Did anyone buy theirs? Assuming TicketCo is still the seller of choice, it doesn't yet capability to sell in North America. Which is interesting. Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OriginalMrC Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 For a competition that is going to be bigger than Superleague in 10 years they sure have made a slow start Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayakman Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 Patience...patience...its still the dead of winter here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Picture Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 On 30/01/2022 at 05:21, Kayakman said: A well thought out cognitive response taking in all the permutations and combinations facing the game today in an ever changing environment.....I could not agree more and that is the way I see it too...I guess I am just a little more blunt in my postulations. Not only is your way the best way forward Adelaide...it is the only way in the North American context. True though that is, this NARL outfit doesn't have anywhere near the sort of money needed to achieve that. What they have is no more than a drop in the bucket compared to what would be needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whippet13 Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 I find it generally hard to get reliable information about the state of the game in NA as there is generally just ad hoc stuff on social media but Chasing Kangaroos will be hosting a re-started Rugby League in America podcast this year which will cover all the different comps. This is an intro to it: Chasing Kangaroos - For international rugby league fans: RLA 001 | Rugby League in America Reboot on Apple Podcasts Elsewhere, Drew Slover (who set up the Florida Axemen with Spinner Howland) is now chair of the USARL: Drew Slover elected chair of USARL Men’s competition at USARL LLC AGM | USA Rugby League Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
langpark Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 4 hours ago, Kayakman said: Patience...patience...its still the dead of winter here. Let it go mate. It's not happening, it never was! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayakman Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 23 hours ago, Big Picture said: True though that is, this NARL outfit doesn't have anywhere near the sort of money needed to achieve that. What they have is no more than a drop in the bucket compared to what would be needed. There is lots of cash floating around out there...we just need a sugar daddy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayakman Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 19 hours ago, langpark said: Let it go mate. It's not happening, it never was! Say it ain't so Joe...SAY IT AIN'T SO!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Picture Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 56 minutes ago, Kayakman said: There is lots of cash floating around out there...we just need a sugar daddy. Indeed there is, but every franchise needs such a person it. Bearing in mind that in North America ownership of a pro sports franchise is a money-making business, no such persons will touch an RL venture unless it has a plan for how their franchise ownership can be profitable for them, including how the league will support them as they set their franchise up because as we both know they'd get plenty of support if they bought into one of the established pro leagues here instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayakman Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 8 hours ago, Big Picture said: Indeed there is, but every franchise needs such a person it. Bearing in mind that in North America ownership of a pro sports franchise is a money-making business, no such persons will touch an RL venture unless it has a plan for how their franchise ownership can be profitable for them, including how the league will support them as they set their franchise up because as we both know they'd get plenty of support if they bought into one of the established pro leagues here instead. True...but you step too far!!!!!!!.... This is in the hands of the Rugby Gods now!...here is to a hope and a prayer. I sure hope it is a go...I will drive down to the the city to watch a Wolfpack game...this is the goal.... If things continue to open up I just might fly over to England to catch a few games also...Harry Stottle has promised to 'show me the town' so that might just be one to remember. I don't know if Harry fully comprehends what he has done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fighting irish Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 Can anyone tell me what the latest ''state of play'' is with the NARL? Has there been any recent announcements about it? If so, can you please copy in some links? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theswanmcr Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 2 hours ago, fighting irish said: Can anyone tell me what the latest ''state of play'' is with the NARL? Has there been any recent announcements about it? If so, can you please copy in some links? I know which team I’m cheering for… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Evans Thigh Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 NARL has ruined rugby league in North America. Such a shame, it’ll be years before it gets back to even 2019 USARL levels. Formerly Alistair Boyd-Meaney fifty thousand Poouunds from Keighley...weve had im gid." MIPM Project Management and Business Solutions " Discounts available for forum members contact me for details Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omott91 Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 2 hours ago, Tex Evans Thigh said: NARL has ruined rugby league in North America. Such a shame, it’ll be years before it gets back to even 2019 USARL levels. For the uninformed, why do you say this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheReaper Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 14 hours ago, fighting irish said: Can anyone tell me what the latest ''state of play'' is with the NARL? Has there been any recent announcements about it? If so, can you please copy in some links? I mean, it's not 1922 where you've got to wait for press clippings from across the pond, you've got access to the same websites they do. I'll save everyone the time, whatever hot air there is on social media, the players haven't received contracts yet or know when they're supposed to be coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fighting irish Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 5 hours ago, TheReaper said: I mean, it's not 1922 where you've got to wait for press clippings from across the pond, you've got access to the same websites they do. I'll save everyone the time, whatever hot air there is on social media, the players haven't received contracts yet or know when they're supposed to be coming. Well having access to the same websites and finding those websites is two different things. If I had managed to find any news (on my own) I wouldn't have asked (would I?). You seem to have some information that I don't, so I'm grateful for that, thank you. Was it too much to ask of you, to reveal your source(s)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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