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Toulouse imploding


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46 minutes ago, Pigeon Lofter said:

Yes, a team had to be proven to be consistently struggling over a few seasons to be considered for relegation. Finishing bottom for one season didn't bring the axe to fall.

And how did the 2nd tier go on ? 

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40 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

I watched the highlights of the Toulouse v. Wigan game yesterday. Five and a half thousand in and the crowd roared each time Toulouse scored and I`m sure I recall them being cheering off at half-time. There is a team who could easily go to 8 - 10 000 crowds ( I`m deliberately being conservative) if they could start to match it regularly with the big sides.

And then of course you have that invaluable promotional tool of a neighbouring team that is already doing well and grabbing plenty of headlines, the potential for that derby to promote the game over there can`t be underestimated..

This is an opportunity not to be missed, if the Super League authorities allow that team to slip back to the Championship after one year they need their heads read, I`d put it up there with the NRL sacrificing Perth. A strategic blunder. What I witnessed on that highlights reel revealed there is a very real appetite for a Rugby League team in Toulouse, grab it.

By doing what ?

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59 minutes ago, Liverpool Rover said:

I think it was changed in Argentina after a couple of the big clubs ended up being relegated.

I think they removed it after a side was relegated despite finishing 9th and winning the cup in the third year. 

 

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1 hour ago, Liverpool Rover said:

I think Swiss football had the Super 8s system. I know in Argentina relegation was decided over a three year points average but I’m not sure that still happens.

 

55 minutes ago, Pigeon Lofter said:

Yes, a team had to be proven to be consistently struggling over a few seasons to be considered for relegation. Finishing bottom for one season didn't bring the axe to fall.

It’s a convoluted and confusing structure in Argentina. While relegation is based on a three year cycle, that doesn’t matter because clubs who have only been in their top flight for one year can and do go down based on one seasons coefficient. 

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12 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Or the most obvious.  French teams locked in  1 up 1 down for uk teams.  Done.

Why should we ring-fence Toulouse Olympique but not Newcastle Thunder and/or York City Knights? Growth exists within the UK, too, and if we are ring-fencing certain clubs based on geography and the potential of certain clubs, why would we not do that for others based in the UK? And if we were too, how do you justify potentially relegating mid-table clubs based upon their face not fitting because of something like geographical location? 

Personally, I don’t see a way in which we can have a very loose form of licencing on certain clubs and not others and then still attempt to keep a handful of relatively small, limited clubs happy by still offering them the carrot of promotion, in which the odds are stacked even further against them by treating others differently. 

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3 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Go back through my last few comments here and these questions are answered. 

So a mixture of unnecessary moves to continue a cycle that doesn’t work so that we don’t annoy a handful of the smaller clubs in the game and some past names that are light years away from their former glories? It’s a no, from me. 

If you are ring-fencing two, ring-fence twelve, fourteen, sixteen or however many the top league is going to have in it and hold all clubs accountable for what the game’s governing bodies, it’s partners and broadcasters and its stakeholders want from it and where they, collectively, want the game to be. Ring-fencing French clubs does little to detract the Super League clubs from having 25-30 weekly rounds, a play-off series and a Challenge Cup competition (albeit one that seems to get shorter and shorter). Your intention to grow the international game is a correct one and a stance I support but clubs’ purposes are not to make international teams more competitive, they’re to achieve their own goals, whether they are relegation threatened or not and your proposal also appears to be brushing UK growth through Newcastle Thunder, for one example, to the side.

Keeping promotion and relegation satisfies maybe six clubs, at the very most, it seems quite a bold move to continue something that doesn’t work in its current format.

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5 hours ago, dkw said:

I think we're one of the only sports where a club endeavouring to better itself and the sport are actually held back by rules created on the fly by the very institution tasked with helping clubs and the sport better themselves....

To be fair, many saying things like this are the ones championing rules to be changed. Including yourself. 

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I don't think TO are anywhere near as far on in their journey to becoming a big club with a solid support base as many others do. But I still feel they have that potential. I'd hoped to see the squad strengthened. I wish there'd been a way to open their season with a home match against Catalans in a post-Covid world.

However, if they finish bottom in 2022, it will be as much their responsibility as anyone else's. We ought to be thinking how to make the 2023 Championship into a better place to land (for any relegated club) rather than continuing with this strategy of Super League or bust.

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26 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

I don't think TO are anywhere near as far on in their journey to becoming a big club with a solid support base as many others do. But I still feel they have that potential. I'd hoped to see the squad strengthened. I wish there'd been a way to open their season with a home match against Catalans in a post-Covid world.

However, if they finish bottom in 2022, it will be as much their responsibility as anyone else's. We ought to be thinking how to make the 2023 Championship into a better place to land (for any relegated club) rather than continuing with this strategy of Super League or bust.

We don’t really know the truths about Houles recruitment plans but it did appear to me that it was tentative.  
 

Bottom lines are that the P&R system we have doesn’t allow enough time to recruit and Clubs don’t have enough money to pay the going rate for sufficient players to ensure remaining in SL.  

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10 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

And then leave it for another 3 years ? , Clubs would save cash for year 3 , then lump it all on 

No, 1 up 1 down every year from that point. In that time you will have moved the Championship to finish end of August. Super League to start beginning of March.

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9 hours ago, Dave T said:

To be fair, many saying things like this are the ones championing rules to be changed. Including yourself. 

Wanting rules that dont create unfair and impossible situations for clubs to improve or catch up to the other SL clubs are very different to the ones currently thrust upon them due to insular short sightedness.

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1 hour ago, dkw said:

Wanting rules that dont create unfair and impossible situations for clubs to improve or catch up to the other SL clubs are very different to the ones currently thrust upon them due to insular short sightedness.

I don't disagree that there may be a better way, but these are long established rules, generally the ones we have used for most of the SL era so I don't agree they are thrust on anyone or ever changing. 

I find it interesting when people complain about changes and then propose their own changes. 

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3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I don't disagree that there may be a better way, but these are long established rules, generally the ones we have used for most of the SL era so I don't agree they are thrust on anyone or ever changing. 

I find it interesting when people complain about changes and then propose their own changes. 

I have read ‘rules’ regarding assisting promoted teams somewhere in RFL documents but I can remember where.  

Possible this was from the 90’s but either way, the system of P&R we have now is not really much different to football except for those clubs having more money to spend when promoted and the game doesn’t rely on physical domination as much.

Too many different permutations of P&R to even bother contemplating.  

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1 hour ago, Lowdesert said:

I have read ‘rules’ regarding assisting promoted teams somewhere in RFL documents but I can remember where.  

Possible this was from the 90’s but either way, the system of P&R we have now is not really much different to football except for those clubs having more money to spend when promoted and the game doesn’t rely on physical domination as much.

Too many different permutations of P&R to even bother contemplating.  

And the salary cap...

To succeed in football, most promoted teams have to spend loads, often more than the top teams. We strictly prohibit that for promoted teams.

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4 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

And the salary cap...

To succeed in football, most promoted teams have to spend loads, often more than the top teams. We strictly prohibit that for promoted teams.

It would put a lot of a clubs money at risk to assemble a team which would have an above average chance of staying in SL.  One year contracts aren’t going to cut it and legal caveats for ‘if we don’t achieve promotion’ would riddle contracts.  Imo that’s not a good business plan unless you’ve the money of a very rich man.

Secondly, most of good player availability has been picked off until the NRL cut contracts or some ‘bad lads’ become available, plus, we have the Dolphins in the market place now.

Money and player availability are the main sticking points in my opinion.  

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2 hours ago, Dave T said:

I don't disagree that there may be a better way, but these are long established rules, generally the ones we have used for most of the SL era so I don't agree they are thrust on anyone or ever changing. 

I find it interesting when people complain about changes and then propose their own changes. 

So all teams in SL are made to pay for travel for the opposition? Good to know.

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3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Oh jeez, this one again. 

None of this is new for Toulouse. 

 

So other SL teams pay for the opposition teams travel? Its a pretty simple question.

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1 hour ago, dkw said:

So other SL teams pay for the opposition teams travel? Its a pretty simple question.

Cats didn’t pick up Leigh’s travel costs last season, so is this only TO? Do you feel it acceptable for non UK SL clubs to get a share of the Sky funding when the broadcaster gets no subs from that nation for the sport?

 

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Just now, sweaty craiq said:

Cats didn’t pick up Leigh’s travel costs last season, so is this only TO? Do you feel it acceptable for non UK SL clubs to get a share of the Sky funding when the broadcaster gets no subs from that nation for the sport?

 

More people in the UK will want to watch a Catalans game than want to watch a Wakey or Salford game, it doesn’t matter whether the funding comes from people watching in France or here. And anyway, Sky don’t pay for the production costs of the games in France, so are getting a product for very little. 

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11 minutes ago, Eddie said:

More people in the UK will want to watch a Catalans game than want to watch a Wakey or Salford game, it doesn’t matter whether the funding comes from people watching in France or here. And anyway, Sky don’t pay for the production costs of the games in France, so are getting a product for very little. 

Will they?

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