Stadium updates .......

[rockerlad]

27 minutes ago, townie88 said:

It isn't though. We aren't even an established championship club yet. To think we will be anywhere near super league in 2/3 years is madness.

Who says the 5k capacity doesn't allow for further expansion when it's due? We haven't seen the plans?

 

this is it, no one has seen the plans yet. town like reds would need a big benefactor to come along who didn't mind spending a lot of money to get close to SL or the FL. pipe dreams without it unfortunately. 

[Derwent Parker]

11 minutes ago, rockerlad said:

this is it, no one has seen the plans yet. town like reds would need a big benefactor to come along who didn't mind spending a lot of money to get close to SL or the FL. pipe dreams without it unfortunately. 

Doesn't mean our new stadium has to be small.

The few matches we played last year at BP were ######

Reds are the biggest gainers from all of this 

!  -  its on BP

2  - It has the Second pitch for all reds junior and ladies  teams which will save them a lot of cash - 

3  - Reds dont need a bigger ground - town might in a year or 2 [ but who cares]

4  - All reds really want is a lease and if that its in a new ground that holds at least 1000 - screw the other team

4  - we  will sell DP to help fund it - even though nobody can build on it?

I bet you wouldn't be pushing this if it was at DP

Every other merger has been an upgrade not a downgrade to suit the football team

Build it Right or dont bother

 

[dkw]

Your talking garbage, you've been told several times by several people why it's cant be built on DP but ignore it all for some tin foil hat wearing rubbish.

[Derwent Parker]

3 minutes ago, dkw said:

Your talking garbage, you've been told several times by several people why it's cant be built on DP but ignore it all for some tin foil hat wearing rubbish.

I have said to you before i was happy to move to an updated stadium at BP - Nobody said it has to be built on DP-  just built correctly and suitable for all requirements  on BP

[rockerlad]

25 minutes ago, Derwent Parker said:

Doesn't mean our new stadium has to be small.

The few matches we played last year at BP were ######

Reds are the biggest gainers from all of this 

!  -  its on BP

2  - It has the Second pitch for all reds junior and ladies  teams which will save them a lot of cash - 

3  - Reds dont need a bigger ground - town might in a year or 2 [ but who cares]

4  - All reds really want is a lease and if that its in a new ground that holds at least 1000 - screw the other team

4  - we  will sell DP to help fund it - even though nobody can build on it?

I bet you wouldn't be pushing this if it was at DP

Every other merger has been an upgrade not a downgrade to suit the football team

Build it Right or dont bother

 

I really don't care where a new ground is at as long as the town gets one. if town could be In super league in 2 years then the reds could be in the conference in 2 years. both are very unlikely.

 

reds a lease? reds won't be getting a lease on the new ground. it's will be managed by a company which will consist of directors from both clubs which has been said countless times, why are you finding that so difficult to understand. as for reds community teams they should be playing at Borough Park, but they can't due to the substandard facilities and that's a fact. 

so let's say we don't bother like you have suggested where do you suggest town and reds find the money from to keep the lights on at the 2 current stadium's? 

Edited February 21, 2022 by rockerlad

[Death to the Rah Rah's]

Christ you keep making reference to the Reds crowds but don’t mention ours.

when was the last time Town averaged anywhere near 5k ?

Certainly not since the late 50’s

Towns average has been around the 1000 mark give or take a couple of hundred for the last 20 years!

We were averaging less than 1700 when we were in Super League.

the successful seasons of the Walsh years of the early 90s averaged just over 3,000.

Ambition is one thing but Town or Reds will always struggle to get a season average over 3,000 for a successful side as we don’t have the population

 

Edited February 21, 2022 by Death to the Rah Rah's

[rockerlad]

3 minutes ago, Death to the Rah Rah's said:

Christ you keep making reference to the Reds crowds but don’t mention ours.

when was the last time Town averaged anywhere near 5k ?

Certainly not since the late 50’s

towns average has been around the 1000 mark give it take a couple of hundred for the last 20 years, we were averaging less than 1700 when we were in Super League.

the successful seasons under the Walsh years of the early 90s averages just over 3,000.

Ambition is one thing but Town or Reds will always struggle to get a season average over 3,000 as we don’t have the population

 

I'm sure he's just here on a wind up.

[The Voodooguru]

36 minutes ago, Death to the Rah Rah's said:

Christ you keep making reference to the Reds crowds but don’t mention ours.

when was the last time Town averaged anywhere near 5k ?

Certainly not since the late 50’s

Towns average has been around the 1000 mark give or take a couple of hundred for the last 20 years!

We were averaging less than 1700 when we were in Super League.

the successful seasons of the Walsh years of the early 90s averaged just over 3,000.

Ambition is one thing but Town or Reds will always struggle to get a season average over 3,000 for a successful side as we don’t have the population

 

Stop using logic in your argument

It has to be 8k, so go big or Parker will take his ball yam. 

[townie88]

1 hour ago, Derwent Parker said:

We haven't seen the plans? - cop out answer - basically shut up cos you don't agree with me.

Cos we haven't. seen the plans yet - does not mean we cant have any opinion??

As I said no ambition - If you don't think we should be trying to get promoted then we should all just wind it up

Unless you are a reds supporter using a town name just to shut us up

We are talking about .planning a stadium - as i said it is cheaper and better to do it properly at the start.

If you want a 30 x 20m bungalow built it is cheaper to build a 30 x 20m building at the start than build a 20 x 10 and ask them 3 year later to come and make it 30 x 20m.

I've had season tickets at town and go alot of reds games. So see the benefits of both clubs.

It always works out cheaper per m2 the more you build. But fact of the matter is we have a defined budget. We are still scratching round trying to secure funding for a 5k capacity. Where will we find the rest for an extra 3k capacity?

Never once said you aren't entitled to an opinion, but don't get your back up when others don't agree.

[Joe Aitcheson]

11 hours ago, chromedome said:

Yes there was much upheaval when the 'new sewer' project was happening. And I can vaguely recall the Town Board claiming the river end of the Grandstand was indeed sinking, along with the squash courts and bar facility above them (which the players frequented post match....i.e. the bar, not squash courts)......And my recollection is that building inspectors (or their like)refuted any 'grandstand damage claims'  made by Town by proving all brickwork cracks were not in fact new and therefore claims were abandoned......anyone else recall this...how about you Joe Aitcheson???

I recall from that time that the squash courts and office building were built on pontoons and the tunnelling caused some movement in both buildings ( in the office case when June Kennedy was working, which was scary). The squash courts had already closed due to lack of members and were not considered salvageable so were  demolished. The office had remedial work and was saved. I did think though that the tunnelling was to do with a gas pipeline, not sewers. I may be mistaken on that though.

[Peter Winthorpe]

As I remember DP has one end formed but just grassed  was the intention to finish that at some stage. I believe town's highest gate was Wigan at about 17k and assume it was full  I was only a kid at that game looking over the wall. So was it planned to match the population by expanding it to 25k. Always best to plan for the full requirement and phase how it is to be constructed, with a large seated stand with the facilities required for both clubs, but sharing changing and function room, with separate bar serveries for ease of operation. Then have covered stand over the other side as at DP. The ends can then by formed as at the river end but not concreted or covered until required or finance is available. 2000 seats and 1000 standing in front on main stand and 2000 standing on the new popular side. Total phase 1 5000. Both ends capable once constructed to add 1500 standing as phase 2 and 3. Total 8000 if that is the magic number.

 

 

 

[chromedome]

11 hours ago, Joe Aitcheson said:

I recall from that time that the squash courts and office building were built on pontoons and the tunnelling caused some movement in both buildings ( in the office case when June Kennedy was working, which was scary). The squash courts had already closed due to lack of members and were not considered salvageable so were  demolished. The office had remedial work and was saved. I did think though that the tunnelling was to do with a gas pipeline, not sewers. I may be mistaken on that though.

Yes I do remember squash courts going down first Joe.....the bar, up some steps from Grandstand, had indeed a suspect floor that moved when folk were in there. I always recall painting walls and and furniture of that bar organised by Helen McDowell and co.  It was the night in 1996 when England soccer hammered Holland in the euros of that era, I was a bit miffed ha, ha. Also can't say if it was 'sewers' or 'gas' that the massive tunnel was for? But I can remember looking at cracks in the Grandstand's brickwork in the company of Directors the late Kenny Wilson, and the late John Donovan.

[Derwent Parker]

18 hours ago, townie88 said:

I've had season tickets at town and go alot of reds games. So see the benefits of both clubs.

It always works out cheaper per m2 the more you build. But fact of the matter is we have a defined budget. We are still scratching round trying to secure funding for a 5k capacity. Where will we find the rest for an extra 3k capacity?

Never once said you aren't entitled to an opinion, but don't get your back up when others don't agree.

I dont have season ticket anymore but never miss a match - I haven't been to reds since i was a kid my uncle took me a few times. This was just before and just after league exit. A certain Johnny Martin winger comes to mind.

This is not that i have anything against Reds - Just fell out with football. Since Klinsmann came over and taught everybody how to dive and cheat to win a penalty.

Now I have been told that this doesn't happen at Reds level, whether correct or not I dont know - so if this is correct may give it a try once this new stadium is sorted???

I like to have a debate on a new stadium - so i said at start of this  - forget the fact of new v old because that kills the debate so does "shut up "we haven't seen plans yet etc.

My only gripe! is there seems to be no ambition quite a few have said no population so no crowds - no promotion in my lifetime etc.

We have absolute no control over what the directors of both teams agree to do [unless some of you on here are directors/shareholders] but that does not mean the rest of us cant have an opinion on what we should have or would like to have.

I just think it should be an improvement on what we have now for all [again forgetting about it being new]

DTTRR mentioned a few pages back that  "Most of the modern stadiums for lower league football and non-league just have one main stand which has all the changing rooms, offices, hospitality etc, with the other 3 sides being covered terracing with no facilities other than toilets and a refreshment area".

I think we should aim higher than that.

Edited February 22, 2022 by Derwent Parker
Misquoted

[Derwent Parker]

14 hours ago, The Voodooguru said:

Stop using logic in your argument

It has to be 8k, so go big or Parker will take his ball yam. 

No

its just some facts and opinions

No Disrespect

Due to the different league structures in Soccer and Rugby

Reds are a few promotions away from getting to the stage of averaging crowds around 4/5K,Div2

Town are 1 promotion away.SL

Although if not for Covid Reds should be higher and hopefully will be promoted this year. Town were promoted last year.

The Coaches/Players and Fans of both teams will be hoping to continue that trend.

Even when you are winning regularly you dont get good crowds in low leagues, as the travelling support is less too.

But that changes the higher you go.

[someone stated earlier] that Town averaged about 3000 back in SL in 90s [dubious counting], but we were not winning,  that changes if you are winning.

Its all ambitious and hard to get - but got to be optimistic

 

[DavidM]

5 minutes ago, Derwent Parker said:

Town are 1 promotion away.SL

Factually correct , but realistically we’re one relegation away from league 1 . Unless huge money pours in from somewhere , staying where we are is as ambitious as it gets , and that’s a big ambition tbh as of now 

Edited February 22, 2022 by DavidM

[Derwent Parker]

15 hours ago, rockerlad said:

I'm sure he's just here on a wind up.

Nope!

[Derwent Parker]

46 minutes ago, DavidM said:

Factually correct , but realistically we’re one relegation away from league 1 . Unless huge money pours in from somewhere , staying where we are is as ambitious as it gets , and that’s a big ambition tbh as of now 

Correct

But Every team not in top or bottom league of their respected sport are always one step away from promotion and one step away from relegation.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't aim high

As I said earlier the Jammies got promoted and they made Playoffs. Fell short but done well.

[JMB]

12 minutes ago, Derwent Parker said:

Correct

But Every team not in top or bottom league of their respected sport are always one step away from promotion and one step away from relegation.

Doesn't mean we shouldn't aim high

As I said earlier the Jammies got promoted and they made Playoffs. Fell short but done well.

Docent matter what sport you play, all clubs and teams must have a ambition to progress, both on and off the field, without this you are on a long slippery slope. if the correct infrastructure can be built in to a new stadium so that it will help finance the stadium and its running costs that would be a massive start, conference rooms with all  the available internet connections ect, office space for rent, training and meeting rooms for both private and corporate hire,  in other words, anything that could be rented out to company's throughout the week. 

[dkw]

I expect there will also be ongoing costs associated with a bigger ground capacity, taxes, H&S stuff, insurance etc.

[Derwent Parker]

3 hours ago, JMB said:

Docent matter what sport you play, all clubs and teams must have a ambition to progress, both on and off the field, without this you are on a long slippery slope. if the correct infrastructure can be built in to a new stadium so that it will help finance the stadium and its running costs that would be a massive start, conference rooms with all  the available internet connections ect, office space for rent, training and meeting rooms for both private and corporate hire,  in other words, anything that could be rented out to company's throughout the week. 

And Before anyone says - wait till plans come out.

If we go down the way DTTRR mentioned a few pages back that  "Most of the modern stadiums for lower league football and non-league just have one main stand which has all the changing rooms, offices, hospitality etc, with the other 3 sides being covered terracing with no facilities other than toilets and a refreshment area".

Then this limits all that other uses - Covered terraces - like we [town and reds] have now -  these have no other use other than watching games.!

The extra activities - "conference rooms with all the available internet connections ect, office space for rent, training and meeting rooms for both private and corporate hire,  in other words, anything that could be rented out to company's throughout the week".

Are all done inside the buildings that incorporate the Grandstand.

And Before anyone says - too expensive

These were the plans for the stadium which we were promised. Which was not totally what Jenkinson and his gang ruined.

Because there was a version out first, which did not include NHS and Sellafield which was almost half the price.

It jumped from 15M to 26M when NHS and Sellafield were added into plans and remember this was the total cost of all the work involved not just a stadium. Training pitch, Riverside landscaping, Pelican crossings and other odds and sods.

This was still the same round shaped 2 grandstand/2 terrace stadium just a bit smaller - It might have been better working backwards from the 15m stadium and slimming it where possible than starting from scratch and seeing what we can do as a minimum.

Edited February 22, 2022 by Derwent Parker
Misquoted

[Derwent Parker]

28 minutes ago, dkw said:

I expect there will also be ongoing costs associated with a bigger ground capacity, taxes, H&S stuff, insurance etc.

I agree

There always is ongoing costs associated in everything we do.

You buy floodlights for the new stadium - but they cost electric

Or should we not buy them we kick off all matches [reds and Town] at noon instead.

If you get chance of a top rated player [reds and Town] - he's probably gonna want more pennies than an average local player

Speculate to accumulate.

 

[dkw]

13 minutes ago, Derwent Parker said:

 

If we go down the way DKW mentioned a few pages back that  "Most of the modern stadiums for lower league football and non-league just have one main stand which has all the changing rooms, offices, hospitality etc, with the other 3 sides being covered terracing with no facilities other than toilets and a refreshment area".

 

Where did I say this?

[Death to the Rah Rah's]

21 minutes ago, dkw said:

Where did I say this?

It's my comments he's quoting. 

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but its always good to back up that opinion with a few hard facts, and this and other forums would be very boring if we all agreed with each other, so I'm all for a good debate provided it doesn't get personal. 

The world cup stadium is history now, but I think its unfair just to blame Mark Jenkinson as there was more than him who was against it, just he was more vocal (as usual); but that doesn't escape the fact that the stadium proposal just didn't stand up to financial scrutiny and was unaffordable which would have been passed onto the residents of Allerdale, of whom only 2% of the population would have used the stadium on a regular basis.   

So onto the new proposal, and I'm not too fussed what capacity the new ground is, as whatever we get it'll be better than what's there now and will hopefully see crowds increase for both clubs.

In regards to capacity, well if Town or Reds every get a multimillionaire backer and either club start to sell out the ground on a regular basis, then I'm sure a ground extension would be top of their priority list !

[Derwent Parker]

36 minutes ago, dkw said:

Where did I say this?

Hi

Very sorry it was Death to the Rah Rah's

"I saw it on page 3"  of this listing with your pic next to it and made an error as you were just replying

Full apologies.

P.S

"I saw it on page 3" - that bring back mammary's

[dkw]

26 minutes ago, Death to the Rah Rah's said:

but that doesn't escape the fact that the stadium proposal just didn't stand up to financial scrutiny and was unaffordable.

Why is this a fact?