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Southern Conference


Eddie
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34 minutes ago, OriginalMrC said:

Worcester Jaguars and All Golds have gone semi pro this year. Why they have done this only their owners know but I agree completely with the sentiment that clubs should focus on becoming as strong as they can be as an amateur club. Paying players while playing in an amateur league is not the best way to do this 

Is the southern conference semi pro then? I assumed it was amateur, like the (much superior) NCL is.

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12 hours ago, welshmagpie said:

Highly unlikely Worcester will make the start line or last long.

Going ‘semi-pro’ blew up in their face causing a mass exodus of disgruntled players who’s wishes hadn’t been listened to. There really aren’t many left and the reputation of the club locally is very tarnished. 

Oh god! Sorry to hear that. I saw the western line up and was, as a supporter, obviously over the moon! Sounds like it will be a waste of time getting excited.

Edited by thebrewxi
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12 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Eddies opinion.  The Link doesn’t say that.

I know that. I read the article. It’s a forum, you converse with people, it’s how it works.

I’m just curious why he feels we need to fast track any side in the south into League One when two of those involved in the conference have been there and done that, another two almost certainly cannot unless they remain as amateur clubs, three are new to that level let alone League One, why anyone would think more London based teams is a good idea and where these clubs would play when most of these clubs don’t play out of “proper” grounds anyway. 

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2 minutes ago, Jughead said:

I know that. I read the article. It’s a forum, you converse with people, it’s how it works.

I’m just curious why he feels we need to fast track any side in the south into League One when two of those involved in the conference have been there and done that, another two almost certainly cannot unless they remain as amateur clubs, three are new to that level let alone League One, why anyone would think more London based teams is a good idea and where these clubs would play when most of these clubs don’t play out of “proper” grounds anyway. 

Really?

I see no reason why any club or player shouldn’t have an objective that is difficult for them to achieve.  

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1 minute ago, Lowdesert said:

Really?

I see no reason why any club or player shouldn’t have an objective that is difficult for them to achieve.  

Every team that doesn’t happen to be located in Cumbria, Lancashire and Yorkshire doesn’t have to strive to join League One. It’s borderline arrogant to assume so. 

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7 hours ago, OriginalMrC said:

No its amateur. As I understand it clubs can still pay players though 

All RFL leagues are ' Open '. The Southern Conference can pay players if they wish ( and if they can ).

The NCL prohibit payment to players  largely to protect the member clubs from potential financial difficulty.

As a consequence they all trade in profit or lose their status.

Seems to work..........

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10 hours ago, Jughead said:

Every team that doesn’t happen to be located in Cumbria, Lancashire and Yorkshire doesn’t have to strive to join League One. It’s borderline arrogant to assume so. 

Who’s suggested that they do? 

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28 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I didn’t say anything of the sort pal, stop putting words in people’s mouths. 

 

On 28/01/2022 at 22:33, Eddie said:

14 teams this year, with a large geographical spread and some ambitious clubs. Hopefully one or two will be in a position to give League One a go in a few years time.


https://www.rugby-league.com/article/36462/2022-southern-conference-league-details-confirmed

It’s right there for you in case you forgot.

Out of interest, do you want any of the NCL teams to join League One?

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13 minutes ago, clwydianrange said:

What’s arrogant about Eddies statement?

I find it arrogant that when new teams are joining a league and a league is expanding to new heights that the talk isn’t about those clubs or that league but joining the professional ranks, when the professional ranks, especially League One, isn’t presently built to be that accommodating to new clubs. More so when you consider two of the SC clubs have been in League One and were treated poorly when there. 

Edited by Jughead
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The problem is the league structure. If there were a proper pyramid with intermediate levels between Conference South and League 1 (which would of course mainly contain NCL sides) then some clubs would work their way up the pyramid. 
 

But Hemel were pretty much the model amateur club for 30 years and even they couldn’t manage the step up to League 1, so I don’t think there are many other clubs that can successfully achieve it.
 

Coventry Bears always felt a bit different, once the club was in the Butts Park Arena attracting decent crowds for an amateur club they did feel like a proto-professional club. There may be other similar clubs arise in the future, but there aren’t any obvious candidates at the minute. 

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10 minutes ago, bowes said:

The problem is the league structure. If there were a proper pyramid with intermediate levels between Conference South and League 1 (which would of course mainly contain NCL sides) then some clubs would work their way up the pyramid. 
 

But Hemel were pretty much the model amateur club for 30 years and even they couldn’t manage the step up to League 1, so I don’t think there are many other clubs that can successfully achieve it.
 

Coventry Bears always felt a bit different, once the club was in the Butts Park Arena attracting decent crowds for an amateur club they did feel like a proto-professional club. There may be other similar clubs arise in the future, but there aren’t any obvious candidates at the minute. 

Curious as to why you think it went wrong with Hemel, it seemed early on that they’d be okay and I think they finished in the play offs in one of their first couple of seasons. Do you think the move away from League One being for developmental/expansion purposes was a big factor?

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14 minutes ago, bowes said:

The problem is the league structure. If there were a proper pyramid with intermediate levels between Conference South and League 1 (which would of course mainly contain NCL sides) then some clubs would work their way up the pyramid. 
 

But Hemel were pretty much the model amateur club for 30 years and even they couldn’t manage the step up to League 1, so I don’t think there are many other clubs that can successfully achieve it.
 

Coventry Bears always felt a bit different, once the club was in the Butts Park Arena attracting decent crowds for an amateur club they did feel like a proto-professional club. There may be other similar clubs arise in the future, but there aren’t any obvious candidates at the minute. 

A League One South 

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32 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

A League One South 

I can’t see that working. In practice it would just be relegating the few southern teams in League 1 to Conference South and rebranding it. 

Edited by bowes
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20 minutes ago, Jughead said:

Curious as to why you think it went wrong with Hemel, it seemed early on that they’d be okay and I think they finished in the play offs in one of their first couple of seasons. Do you think the move away from League One being for developmental/expansion purposes was a big factor?

I don’t know the full story, but I think moving away from League 1 being a development league was a factor and it was hard to recruit  enough players at the required standard. It’s worth noting that the club aren’t based all that far from London Skolars and so they were competing for the same player pool. When the club moved the training base to Dewsbury it was the final nail in the coffin for their chances of local player recruitment. 
 

I think if Hemel had joined the NCL instead of joining League 1 they’d still be doing well in it. The club has always had a strong off field set up to support the logistical challenges this would bring. 

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37 minutes ago, bowes said:

I can’t see that working. In practice it would just be relegating the few southern teams in League 1 to Conference South and rebranding it. 

Not if it came with central funding that allowed all League One South teams to be Semi Pro. The Conference South would stay as an amateur league, some clubs could put a side out in both leagues.

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1 hour ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Not if it came with central funding that allowed all League One South teams to be Semi Pro. The Conference South would stay as an amateur league, some clubs could put a side out in both leagues.

It wouldn’t work even with central funding. The clubs just aren’t there to make up the league. The three strongest teams (on the field) in Conference South are heavily reliant on people on working holiday visas from Australia and New Zealand, who aren't allowed to play professional sport.

Edited by bowes
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1 hour ago, bowes said:

I think if Hemel had joined the NCL instead of joining League 1 they’d still be doing well in it. The club has always had a strong off field set up to support the logistical challenges this would bring. 

Hemel were in the NCL for a number of seasons

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44 minutes ago, Jeff Stein said:

Hemel were in the NCL for a number of seasons

Yes, I think this was the time the professional game moved to the summer and Hemel moved with it, as they had ambitions of going professional. They entered their first team in the reserve league, but got really screwed over when the RFL shut down the reserve league and it took them a while to recover (National League 3 did help the recovery once that was set up).

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5 hours ago, Jughead said:

 

It’s right there for you in case you forgot.

Out of interest, do you want any of the NCL teams to join League One?

I said I hope some do, not that they all should want to. Not similar at all, get back in your box. 

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The problem with a promotion and relegation pyramid is that it doesn’t allow the RFL to build some solid pathway foundations. 

I don’t think Skolars belong in League 1 and I’ve believed that for a long time. Nor do I think Coventry/Midland really belong there, or WWR.

If there was a Premier Southern Conference that the RFL could identify 8-10 clubs reasonably spread geographically like Bedford, Rhinos, Stags, Skolars, Cardiff, Midlands, one south west and one south of the river, ensure there is no promo/relegation, this could be promoted as the elite league for midlands, Wales and the south where all development funding was spent.

You would also remove the upstart individuals like Kent Ravens many years ago, frivolously starting a club to feed their own personal ego and wasting everyone’s energy. I wouldn’t even have the likes of HHH or the other two clubs full of players on a two year visa. You may even encourage a few of those visa holders to join one of the other clubs and help improve the talent in those clubs by giving them strong experienced player to play alongside.

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