Attendances (Multiple Merged Threads)

[Scubby]

28 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I broadly agree, however I would say a lot of people who go to some events like 6N go because they like those events rather than Rugby Union necessarily. Living in Edinburgh for so long many of my friends loved the 6N events, but couldn't tell you anything about Rugby Union. 

That isn't a criticism of them, getting people to events is aassove success, but for me it shows that these haven't been attracted by things like shot clocks or 40/20's.

It seems strange writing this but the game needs to get away from the sh*t/bust feeling of win or losing and create a culture of celebrating what it is actually great about being a fan of a particular club. It was the one thing Toronto jumped on straight away and a few clubs like Hull KR/Cas/Hudds are cottoning onto this a little bit.

Wigan were no better on the pitch when they were averaging 15k than they are averaging 10-11k now. The difference was the feelgood factor they were able to galvanise about the Wigan club and following Wigan. In the end, supporting RL and paying your cash through the turnstiles and merchandise has to be an enjoyable experience doesn't it? If not, why do it?

Edited March 8, 2022 by Scubby

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

There’s probably something in that but it’s a good starting point to recognise that most people haven’t been conned in to being there.

Of course, and my point was about if we try and find a load of RL fans to fill grounds we may struggle. We need to find people who enjoy going to events like this. 

[Scubby]

11 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

People comparing us to football have very little to offer this debate. 

We are in competition with ourselves, Huddersfield is what it is sadly.  

Going forward any plan has to be based around tight stadiums that can be between 70-80% capacity on the regular games for the TV product. 

Salford and Wakefield are moving forward. We have Fev,  York , Leigh  (touch to big but averaged 6k in SL last proper season) , Newcastle and Widnes  (same as Leigh) all in appropriate stadiums with lots to offer SL. 

Bradford now probably only need a 10k stadium as crowds are no bigger than Fev and last two seasons in SÑ crowd average was 6500 and 8500 . Were we to get that you transform the club overnight and also give a massive shot in the arm to the sport.

The folly of multi use stadiums with football clubs seeking to reach the premiership in soccer ( and maybe the championship ) should never be repeated. 

 

The reason the Bulls were successful is a marketing person looked at the potential and said "I can fill this place". This meant that the Bulls were able to get 24k for Leeds and I was there for another derby with 22-23k there.

You start downsizing potential and you downsize ambition. Why would you have a 10k stadium for a club that had more season tickets than that 15 years ago?

Same with Salford. Who is going to look around a toy town stadium like Moor Lane and think - I can fill this.

Even Leeds have now configured a stadium meaning they can never achieve a home 20k attendance again - despite recording dozens of 20k attendances in the last 30 years. If Wigan do the same then we may as well pack up.

[Scubby]

1 minute ago, ShropshireBull said:

Because many of those people are dead and demographically the area has moved away from that traditional support base. Plus we went bust despite those big leeds crowds. Second a stadium cannot just be something in use 13 times a year. If Salford get a 3g pitch down at moor lane they offer the sport more than that box. You can take bradford vs leeds to Valley Parade but to build an entire stadium around one match is folly.  

10-11k 3g stadium for Bulls would be perfect for us and the sport. 

Don't agree at all. In 1992/3 when Bulls were #### and survived relegation on the last day I'm sure people similar to this mindset would have said yes please to a shiny 9,500 stadium as the crowd is ageing and static - 3-4k that season. Had that happened you would have never seen any potential for a 500k RL city like Bradford.

It's like Cas, if they can get 10,500 people into a #### hole why wouldn't you see the potential of 15k crowds in a purpose built facility? Yet all the watercolour paintings they produced were 10k.

[Eddie]

46 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

People comparing us to football have very little to offer this debate. 

We are in competition with ourselves, Huddersfield is what it is sadly.  

Going forward any plan has to be based around tight stadiums that can be between 70-80% capacity on the regular games for the TV product. 

Salford and Wakefield are moving forward. We have Fev,  York , Leigh  (touch to big but averaged 6k in SL last proper season) , Newcastle and Widnes  (same as Leigh) all in appropriate stadiums with lots to offer SL. 

Bradford now probably only need a 10k stadium as crowds are no bigger than Fev and last two seasons in SÑ crowd average was 6500 and 8500 . Were we to get that you transform the club overnight and also give a massive shot in the arm to the sport.

The folly of multi use stadiums with football clubs seeking to reach the premiership in soccer ( and maybe the championship ) should never be repeated. 

 

I’ve asked you a number of times recently but don’t think you’ve answered, what do you think the solution to your issue of Huddersfield games not looking good on tv be? 
 

Also do you think York and Newcastle games look good with their too big grounds? I see you’ve listed them as appropriately sized. 

[fevtom]

Based on this seasons average attendance Newcastle have been at around 8.8% capacity. Off the top of my head i'd say that must be the lowest in the sport.

[Eddie]

7 minutes ago, fevtom said:

Based on this seasons average attendance Newcastle have been at around 8.8% capacity. Off the top of my head i'd say that must be the lowest in the sport.

Yes but it’s a town which apparently lots of people have heard of so Huddersfield should be kicked out and Newcastle brought in. Cas out for York too as their stadium is better and more people have heard of York. 

[Scubby]

18 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I’ve asked you a number of times recently but don’t think you’ve answered, what do you think the solution to your issue of Huddersfield games not looking good on tv be? 
 

Also do you think York and Newcastle games look good with their too big grounds? I see you’ve listed them as appropriately sized. 

This is completely irrelevant as they are using a shared facility with football and RU.

If Newcastle and York didn't play in excellent facilities then neither would have had a successful bid for RL World Cup games. They are (and they did) meaning 10k+ will be watching international RL at Newcastle and 8K at York this autumn. The clubs can successfully market off the back of that database I'm sure.

[Eddie]

8 minutes ago, Scubby said:

This is completely irrelevant as they are using a shared facility with football and RU.

If Newcastle and York didn't play in excellent facilities then neither would have had a successful bid for RL World Cup games. They are (and they did) meaning 10k+ will be watching international RL at Newcastle and 8K at York this autumn. The clubs can successfully market off the back of that database I'm sure.

I don’t think it is irrelevant. Shropshire Bull is saying Huddersfield’s ground is too big, yet considers York and Newcastle’s grounds to be appropriate, when as a percentage of capacity their attendances are around the same (York) or much smaller (Newcastle) as Huddersfield’s.  I was asking him why he thinks that, hope that’s ok with you. 

[Scubby]

9 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I don’t think it is irrelevant. Shropshire Bull is saying Huddersfield’s ground is too big, yet considers York and Newcastle’s grounds to be appropriate, when as a percentage of capacity their attendances are around the same (York) or much smaller (Newcastle) as Huddersfield’s.  I was asking him why he thinks that, hope that’s ok with you. 

Huddersfield's ground is not too big. It means the town of Huddersfield gets high profile RL games like tests and Challenge Cup semis. I've been at Huddersfield with 6k in and the atmosphere is fine.

I think people insult the general viewing public sometimes. Seeing 5-6k in a huge stadium like Huddersfield doesn't make RL look less popular than seeing a #### shoe box like Belle Vue half full.

The MCG on day 4 of a test has about 5k in a 100k stadium. No one gives a toss. I enjoy watching the action on the pitch.

 

Edited March 8, 2022 by Scubby

[EggFace]

4 hours ago, Eddie said:

I do think some of the obsession with football is to do with marketing yes. Don’t get me wrong I’m a fan (had a Season ticket at a league club for 20 years) but the majority of games are actually quite dull, yet Sky particularly know how to talk them up into an event. Rugby league doesn’t have that. 

I also think a lot of people follow the Football so they don't feel left out be it in the classroom, mates, work etc.

 

[Scubby]

7 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

We aren´t like Cas. We have averaged 8.5 , then 6.5 k last season in SL then 5 and a bit 1st season in champ when we lost Million Pound game, then 4 k, then bust so 3k in League 1 then back to 4k in Champ 2019. We look likely to average 4k this year if we are lucky. 

Were we to get 9k or 10 k that would be a 225 - 250% increase in front of a near capacity crowd that would look immense on TV and represent a fantastic rebirth for the club. Again, building a stadium for one game (vs Leeds) when Valley parade is down the road is folly. 

I was at Odsal in 1993 when there were 3k inside and then again 3 years later with 15k inside. I was at Wigan in the early 1980s with 4-5k inside and then there for 30k+ just 3-4 years later.

Nothing looks great when you are in a downward spiral. 

We are in danger of downsizing the sport and its ambition into obscurity. It you have 10k stadiums you get 7k crowds. I am yet to recall a RL club that has downsized and is filling its smaller venue? Can you give one? 

Edited March 8, 2022 by Scubby

[langpark]

11 hours ago, Eddie said:

Does anyone know how many were at Widnes last night? 

Same question I wanted to ask. 

Monday night crowds have been holding strong so far. Hopefully last night was no exception. 

[Jill Halfpenny fan]

22 minutes ago, langpark said:

Same question I wanted to ask. 

Monday night crowds have been holding strong so far. Hopefully last night was no exception. 

Not seen anything official but in the club interview with Simon Finnegan after the game over 3,000 is mentioned.

[GUBRATS]

9 hours ago, Scubby said:

It seems strange writing this but the game needs to get away from the sh*t/bust feeling of win or losing and create a culture of celebrating what it is actually great about being a fan of a particular club. It was the one thing Toronto jumped on straight away and a few clubs like Hull KR/Cas/Hudds are cottoning onto this a little bit.

Wigan were no better on the pitch when they were averaging 15k than they are averaging 10-11k now. The difference was the feelgood factor they were able to galvanise about the Wigan club and following Wigan. In the end, supporting RL and paying your cash through the turnstiles and merchandise has to be an enjoyable experience doesn't it? If not, why do it?

Indeed , but that is helped if your club has ' some ' success , unfortunately in our sport ( like others ) , we now see just the same ' winners ' , which is why locking out takes away the ' hope ' , be that winning a trophy , being promoted or indeed avoiding relegation 

[Chris22]

Looking good for a big crowd at Saints on Friday, almost certainly due to be the biggest crowd of the Super League season so far.

[GUBRATS]

7 hours ago, Scubby said:

 

The MCG on day 4 of a test has about 5k in a 100k stadium. No one gives a toss. I enjoy watching the action on the pitch.

 

So why are you posting on an attendance thread , if you don't give a toss ?

[Scubby]

30 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

So why are you posting on an attendance thread , if you don't give a toss ?

I care about attendances - thats being contrary for the sake of it. If 8k is a good crowd I really don't care if it is in a 10k or 25k stadium.

However if it is in a 10k stadium then that 10k crowd could never grow to be 15k or 20k.

[Josef K]

My guesses at the attendances for this weekend. I have heard we are on for some bad weather which i think will put off pay at the gate fans sadly. 
Leeds/Hull - 11,789 

Wakey/Toulouse - 4,300

Salford/ HKR - 3,705

saints/wire - 12,785

Huddersfield/Cas - 6,004

Catalans/Wigan - 8,743

Cup games 

Crusaders/Eagles - 504

Barrow/Workington - 1,530

Whitehaven/York - 653

Batley/Fev - 1,387

 

 

[Scubby]

10 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

Hoping Crusaders and Barrow with their great run could get a few more. 

 

All pay in the cup limits what a club like Barrow can do in terms of offers.

[Eddie]

11 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

This is why I mute Ed.  I said York and Newcastle have appropriate stadiums for SL,  so he ignores that and just talks about the Champ. 

I say about Giants stadium it is what it is (IE there is nothing they can do) and he worthlessly asks 'what would you do?', clearly not understanding the meaning of the phrase or the concept of a forum.  

He either cant read or chooses not to.  

On the contrary mate, you didn’t say for SL and saying ‘is what it is’ isn’t clear at all, when you’re continually berating Huddersfield for having a ground that’s too big for them. Yes keep me on mute, we can’t have people questioning what you mean or your contradictions on a forum

[redjonn]

21 hours ago, Scubby said:

Huddersfield's ground is not too big. It means the town of Huddersfield gets high profile RL games like tests and Challenge Cup semis. I've been at Huddersfield with 6k in and the atmosphere is fine.

I think people insult the general viewing public sometimes. Seeing 5-6k in a huge stadium like Huddersfield doesn't make RL look less popular than seeing a #### shoe box like Belle Vue half full.

The MCG on day 4 of a test has about 5k in a 100k stadium. No one gives a toss. I enjoy watching the action on the pitch.

 

Actually your post made me think about what impact having high profile games has on attendance. That is internationals, semi/quarter finals, etc as many of us bang on how important such are to spread and increase crowds.

Given many think Huddersfield attendances are poor (I have no opinion) yet as you say have many big games played in the town.  Does having those high profile games make any difference?

 

[Eddie]

14 minutes ago, redjonn said:

Actually your post made me think about what impact having high profile games has on attendance. That is internationals, semi/quarter finals, etc as many of us bang on how important such are to spread and increase crowds.

Given many think Huddersfield attendances are poor (I have no opinion) yet as you say have many big games played in the town.  Does having those high profile games make any difference?

 

Maybe their attendances would be worse if they hadn’t had those games in town. Though as Meast, Daz & Co correctly point out, their attendances aren’t that bad. 

[Scubby]

7 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

The people who fund the sport TV, Sponsors) do care though.  Again theres plenty of football grounds for big games. 

If they cared they really wouldn't pay hundreds of millions of pounds for test cricket and golf.

They care about profile, demographic and interest.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Scubby

[Scubby]

1 minute ago, ShropshireBull said:

Golf has bucket loads of spectators for the big events.  Home test matches are always sold out which is why sky grabbed them in 2005.

And so does SL

Sky have just had NZ v SA test series on with 100 people in the ground. Pakistan v Australia which was empty after Day 2. They show every golf event, they have a whole channel showing PGA events with one person and a dog.

We get too precious about all this. Many SL games are well attended with great atmospheres. A few a played a big stadiums - that is potential to fill not cloth to cut.

The NRL has a A$2b TV deal. Souths get 15k in an 80k stadium, Brisbane 20-30k in a 55k stadium. Roosters get 10k in a 45k stadium, Wests and Parra half fill the new Westbank Stadium. The viewing figures are through the roof. 

The difference is here is that if Brisbane are playing the Storm in a big game, the Broncos have the potential to fill that 54k stadium. Should they downsize to a 25k stadium so TV will be happy each week?