Attendances (Multiple Merged Threads)

[Toby Chopra]

7 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Wearing thin isn’t it. Leeds and Wigan’s haemorrhaging of fans is one of the most worrying aspects of the game, and neither club seem bothered about it. 

In Leeds' case, I think that's a bit unfair. 

The difference between 11k fans and 15k fans is probably down to the difference a winning team makes to the casual "walk-up" attendance. The fact that corporate is still sucessful despite a poor team shows that Headingley match nights are a popular 'event' destinanation and should be praised for the financial stability it brings. It'll come right in the end. 

Wigan on the otherhand have been largely there or thereabouts on the pitch in the last few years, so their fall in attendances seems much more existential. 

[Damien]

6 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

In Leeds' case, I think that's a bit unfair. 

The difference between 11k fans and 15k fans is probably down to the difference a winning team makes to the casual "walk-up" attendance. The fact that corporate is still sucessful despite a poor team shows that Headingley match nights are a popular 'event' destinanation and should be praised for the financial stability it brings. It'll come right in the end. 

Wigan on the otherhand have been largely there or thereabouts on the pitch in the last few years, so their fall in attendances seems much more existential. 

It doesn't always work like this though. 

I remember in later years at Central Park attendances weren't great despite success. Wigan's attendances in the years on moving to the JJB were poorer than now.

Attendances actually rose at Wigan at the JJB with no success. In Wigans disastrous 2006 season attendances were the 7th highest they've had in the entire SL era and this seemed to galvanise crowds. 2007 was one of the highest averages on record. This laid the foundation for good crowds for a decade or so, including when the club had started to get success from 2010 onwards.

There is a lot more to crowds than just a winning team and it's a lazy approach from clubs that think it's key. I certainly don't think Wigans recent lower crowds are due to a lack of success.

[DimmestStar]

Leeds United Under 23's drew a crowd of 21,321 last night far more than Rhinos.

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

We keep hearing from certain posters that Leeds’ low crowds are because they have so many Thursday games and they’ll go up on the preferred Friday, so for a club who were averaging 15k+ not long ago, 11k on a Friday night is worryingly low.

Yet there is a good chance it’ll be the best attendance of the round. 

[bobbruce]

5 minutes ago, DimmestStar said:

Leeds United Under 23's drew a crowd of 21,321 last night far more than Rhinos.

Barcelona women drew 91k+.More than both but I have no idea why that matters. 

Edited April 23, 2022 by bobbruce

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, DimmestStar said:

Leeds United Under 23's drew a crowd of 21,321 last night far more than Rhinos.

They were also £6 adult tickets, it was the only fixture at Elland road between the 2nd and 30th of April, and there was a galvanised effort in the fanbase to eclipse the record PL2 crowd. ST holders also got in for free.

Add to that the difficulty seeing any LUFC game in person for non-ST holders and it was a good opportunity for many fans.

Similar factors also saw a sellout crowd for a midweek League Cup Fixture against Crewe Alexandra last Autumn.

[Toby Chopra]

13 minutes ago, Damien said:

There is a lot more to crowds than just a winning team and it's a lazy approach from clubs that think it's key. I certainly don't think Wigans recent lower crowds are due to a lack of success.

Indeed, which is why I said Wigan's fall off seems existential. It just to me feels like Leeds' crowds are actually holding up ok, given stadium redevelopment, the pandemic period, United in the premiership... and a pretty poor team. I think they're maintaining a good connection with their supporter base overall. 

If their crowds continue to head downwards over the next couple of years, then we can say its something more serious. 

And when you look at Wigan, Warrington, Hull FC, and maybe Saints crowds start to dip, perhaps it would indicate something about the sport/Superleague as a whole. 

[cookey]

Varsity 2022, May 4, University of Leeds RUFC  v  Leeds Beckett University, an 18,000 sell out at Headingley. Wonder how much beer they will sell?!

[Toby Chopra]

1 minute ago, cookey said:

Varsity 2022, May 4, University of Leeds RUFC  v  Leeds Beckett University, an 18,000 sell out at Headingley. Wonder how much beer they will sell?!

Wow, that's remarkable. 

I presume both those unis have league teams too, they should plan something similar if they dont already. 

[Damien]

14 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

Indeed, which is why I said Wigan's fall off seems existential. It just to me feels like Leeds' crowds are actually holding up ok, given stadium redevelopment, the pandemic period, United in the premiership... and a pretty poor team. I think they're maintaining a good connection with their supporter base overall. 

If their crowds continue to head downwards over the next couple of years, then we can say its something more serious. 

And when you look at Wigan, Warrington, Hull FC, and maybe Saints crowds start to dip, perhaps it would indicate something about the sport/Superleague as a whole. 

I certainly think this true and I think it's quite apparent from fan opinions over recent years.

I think there is also an element of a rising tide lifts all ships in these things. A vibrant, well run competition can produce a buzz that translates to fans wanting to go to matches. Obviously in recent years, in both SL and RL generally, I think we have seen the polar opposite of this theory.

Edited April 23, 2022 by Damien

[Tommygilf]

11 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

Wow, that's remarkable. 

I presume both those unis have league teams too, they should plan something similar if they dont already. 

They do, two of the best historically.

League Varsity this year is before the Hull KR game next week I think.

Edit: It won't surprise anyone here to note that Union Varsity is given a massively overinflated status vs every other sport despite the relative abilities of the two Unis in the sport being like putting Liverpool up against Crewe.

Edited April 23, 2022 by Tommygilf

[cookey]

8 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

Wow, that's remarkable. 

I presume both those unis have league teams too, they should plan something similar if they dont already. 

Leeds Varsity, 27 April to 4 May, across 25 sports, with 60 fixtures. The RL Varsity takes place on 29 April, prior to the Rhinos v Hull KR game.

[Tommygilf]

32 minutes ago, DimmestStar said:

Leeds United Under 23's drew a crowd of 21,321 last night far more than Rhinos.

Also a bigger crowd than Premier League sides Burnley Brentford and Watford have averaged all season...

[Damien]

7 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

They do, two of the best historically.

League Varsity this year is before the Hull KR game next week I think.

Edit: It won't surprise anyone here to note that Union Varsity is given a massively overinflated status vs every other sport despite the relative abilities of the two Unis in the sport being like putting Liverpool up against Crewe.

That seems to pretty much sum up RL and RU though and their approaches.

RL with traditionally two of the countries best University teams as a curtain raiser at a RL ground in a RL city while RU has a standalone event at the same ground with what is certainly 1 mediocre RU team.

Edited April 23, 2022 by Damien

[Tommygilf]

5 minutes ago, Damien said:

That seems to pretty much sum up RL and RU though and their approaches.

RL with traditionally two of the countries best University teams as a curtain raiser at a RL ground in a RL city while RU has a standalone event at the same ground with what is certainly 1 mediocre RU team.

Mediocre is putting it lightly.

[gingerjon]

14 minutes ago, Damien said:

That seems to pretty much sum up RL and RU though and their approaches.

RL with traditionally two of the countries best University teams as a curtain raiser at a RL ground in a RL city while RU has a standalone event at the same ground with what is certainly 1 mediocre RU team.

Presumably the universities involved are using the games as fundraisers so maybe have a word with their development departments.

[Toby Chopra]

29 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

They do, two of the best historically.

League Varsity this year is before the Hull KR game next week I think.

Edit: It won't surprise anyone here to note that Union Varsity is given a massively overinflated status vs every other sport despite the relative abilities of the two Unis in the sport being like putting Liverpool up against Crewe.

Do many Leeds University students go and watch the Rhinos, given Headingley is right in thr heart of studentland? 

If Leeds Uni is still as packed full of middle-class southerners as it was in my day, then it's a tough ask, but also a measure of the Rhino's ability to transcend its rugby leagueness into elite sportness

[GUBRATS]

47 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

Wow, that's remarkable. 

I presume both those unis have league teams too, they should plan something similar if they dont already. 

Students up for a ###### up 

What does that have anything to do with RL ?

[Damien]

19 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Presumably the universities involved are using the games as fundraisers so maybe have a word with their development departments.

No idea.

However I do remember 20+ years ago being a RL player and on the committee of one of the said Universities and trying to arrange the exact same match at Headingley so I do have experience of what's involved with the Universities, Leeds Rhinos and Student RL. To say there where barriers put in our way was an understatement and that's despite us being voted the Universities team of the year by the student union (first time by a RL team ever and much to the dislike of the university itself) and us being the best RL side the country.

The RU lot did somehow manage it though despite being way off the level we were and down the RU student leagues. Then again they had their own pitches and we had to use shared facilities around their days and times too. Our protests over the 3 years I was there fell on deaf ears. Nothing much seems to change.

Edited April 23, 2022 by Damien

[RayCee]

I try to put together crowd numbers and was looking forward to posting someone on League 1 attendances so far. The last couple of rounds have been very hard to get all results. How are attendance figures handled? Are clubs obliged to tell the RFL how many turned up? Is so why don’t they publish them on their site? 

[Toby Chopra]

3 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Students up for a ###### up 

What does that have anything to do with RL ?

If you can get 18,000 local students to turn up at a rugby match at the home of England's biggest rugby league club, it's a damn shame it's not a rugby league match they're going to see. 

[Damien]

1 minute ago, Toby Chopra said:

If you can get 18,000 local students to turn up at a rugby match at the home of England's biggest rugby league club, it's a damn shame it's not a rugby league match they're going to see. 

Yes certainly. It's like the arguments some had against Toronto. I just don't understand the snobbery around these things.

People attend sporting events for all reasons and for some it certainly isn't just for the 80 mins that happens on Rugby pitch. We really need to get out of that mindset as a sport and away from the view that some fans are better, or purer RL fans, for than others.

[Toby Chopra]

1 minute ago, Damien said:

Yes certainly. It's like the arguments some had against Toronto. I just don't understand the snobbery around these things.

People attend sporting events for all reasons and for some it certainly isn't just for the 80 mins that happens on Rugby pitch. We really need to get out of that mindset as a sport and away from the view that some fans are better, or purer RL fans, for than others.

In fact the more I think about it, the more I see that Leeds has such an important opportunity to evangelise for rugby league. 

Every year literally thousands of the country's top graduates will leave Leeds and move into the UK's most influential professions - and Rhinos will have had them literally on their doorstep for 3 years. 

If they haven't put rugby league on the radar of at least some of them over that time it's a huge opportunity missed. 

I don't see any other SL club with quite the same opportunity to change attitudes. 

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

I certainly think this true and I think it's quite apparent from fan opinions over recent years.

I think there is also an element of a rising tide lifts all ships in these things. A vibrant, well run competition can produce a buzz that translates to fans wanting to go to matches. Obviously in recent years, in both SL and RL generally, I think we have seen the polar opposite of this theory.

At some clubs yes, but at others like Saints, KR and Cas crowds are very good, as they are at some lower league clubs such as Barrow. 

[meast]

27 minutes ago, RayCee said:

I try to put together crowd numbers and was looking forward to posting someone on League 1 attendances so far. The last couple of rounds have been very hard to get all results. How are attendance figures handled? Are clubs obliged to tell the RFL how many turned up? Is so why don’t they publish them on their site? 

2022 RFL League 1 results - Wikipedia