Attendances (Multiple Merged Threads)

[daz39]

9 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

That stadium is massively oversized and impossible to make an atmosphere in is why. 

They used to do when they were good and it was full. We were saying ourselves how the south stand was one fo the noisiest and raucous in the league a few years back, apart from an 'oh warry warry' when the game was sewn up there wasn't a peep came from it last week, quite a deflating thing really remembering it how it was.

Edited April 30, 2022 by daz39

[Scubby]

2 hours ago, Dave T said:

So, here's my regular moan about the Wire clubs efforts off the field. 

Once again, this was a, nothing event. They made it a retro shirt night, which seemed to get announced just a few days ago, and purely based in the fact we had two retro kits to sell. 

We arrived an hour early and sat in the sun in our seats. There was a junior game that finished around 7.15, and literally nothing else pre-match. No dancers, no DJ, no flame throwers as they walked out, no light show, no entertainment in the bowl - all things that used to be standard. 

Once again, we opened the doors and played a game. 

I was also disgusted pre-match, as we were in so early there must have been 5 if us in the concourse as we'd just grabbed a drink to take up. A Wire employee marched along the concourse, youngish, clearly power mad, and he shouted at the top if his voice "how old are you... You, how old are you?" to one of the shell-shocked agency kids working behind the bar. It was an appalling way to speak to staff, and an appalling way to speak in front of customers. How you treat the lowest paid in an organisation is a good reflection of your business values. The guy was a scumbag and I'm afraid I'd have been telling him where to go if it was me. The group of kids working looked shell-shocked, and a lady spectator also present was shocked, and exchanged looks and head shakes with us. It sounds like a minor point, but I was pretty disgusted tbh. 

Is it a coincidence that two clubs struggling off the field at the moment both went down the old boy former player CEO route - Wire and Wigan?

Has either Radlinski or Fitzpatrick had any experience of running a large organisation let alone having a track record of growth?

They appear, from the outside, lazy appointments and they are probably cheaper than the going rate.

[Dave T]

5 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Is it a coincidence that two clubs struggling off the field at the moment both went down the old boy former player CEO route - Wire and Wigan?

Has either Radlinski or Fitzpatrick had any experience of running a large organisation let alone having a track record of growth?

They appear, from the outside, lazy appointments and they are probably cheaper than the going rate.

I recall being disappointed when Fitzpatrick took over, but then we had a couple of good years under him, and some of the things he said in interviews were sound, if a little basic. 

I have no idea why things have taken a downturn this year, but I can see an operation being run on the cheap when I see one. 

You rarely hear from the ub nowadays, but all the talk from being the Premier RL club in the world has gone, and we certainly aren't behaving like a club with those ambitions. And I'm not talking about on-field, many fans are peed off with recruitment, but it is what it is, I'm solely referring to off-field. 

Stuff that we have been doing for years and years (with decent results) have just slowly drifted away. 

[Scubby]

4 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I recall being disappointed when Fitzpatrick took over, but then we had a couple of good years under him, and some of the things he said in interviews were sound, if a little basic. 

I have no idea why things have taken a downturn this year, but I can see an operation being run on the cheap when I see one. 

You rarely hear from the ub nowadays, but all the talk from being the Premier RL club in the world has gone, and we certainly aren't behaving like a club with those ambitions. And I'm not talking about on-field, many fans are peed off with recruitment, but it is what it is, I'm solely referring to off-field. 

Stuff that we have been doing for years and years (with decent results) have just slowly drifted away. 

Normally it is the other way round with successful leadership, no?

A CEO worth his/her salt can drive new revenues and opportunities and that means they can make a bigger impact in Y3-4.

Hull KR is an interesting one to watch. Hudgell was ####### about for years with himself and then ex pros like Peacoack on the scene before finally getting a competent leader in. Now all the noise from the club is about forward momentum.

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Scubby said:

Normally it is the other way round with successful leadership, no?

A CEO worth his/her salt can drive new revenues and opportunities and that means they can make a bigger impact in Y3-4.

Hull KR is an interesting one to watch. Hudgell was ####### about for years with himself and then ex pros like Peacoack on the scene before finally getting a competent leader in. Now all the noise from the club is about forward momentum.

2019 was his year 3 to be fair and we were doing far better than now. 

But I'd say you see the real quality of leaders when things have been tough and you have to adapt - and on the surface, it doesn't look like he has a clue what to do coming out of the pandemic years. Managing a business out of a crisis is a real skill, and the clubs approach appears to have been to streamline, rather than going bold as some others have done. 

My biggest worry if I'm honest is that the board have ordered substantial cost cutting. 

[Scubby]

10 minutes ago, Dave T said:

2019 was his year 3 to be fair and we were doing far better than now. 

But I'd say you see the real quality of leaders when things have been tough and you have to adapt - and on the surface, it doesn't look like he has a clue what to do coming out of the pandemic years. Managing a business out of a crisis is a real skill, and the clubs approach appears to have been to streamline, rather than going bold as some others have done. 

My biggest worry if I'm honest is that the board have ordered substantial cost cutting. 

Well they appear to have reduced Wire's forward pack by 100kg and 25% grunt so you may be right.

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

14 hours ago, meast said:

It was the 2nd lowest attendance at Wakefield in the super league era, only the 2,837 who turned up in July 2001 was lower.

And it was the 3rd lowest attendance between these 2 sides this century.

 

11 hours ago, fevtom said:

10,988 at Saints tonight.

 

11 hours ago, Barley Mow said:

13,333 at Headingley v Hull KR

 

11 hours ago, daz39 said:

10.100 at Wire v Wigan, jeez that's pretty poor on a bank holiday Friday for one of the comps prestige fixtures.

 

On 27/04/2022 at 23:03, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Leeds once again have the best attendance of the round 

 

On 28/04/2022 at 10:05, fevtom said:

Still think they'll top the attendance table at the end of the year? 

 

On 28/04/2022 at 13:37, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

I also think we’ll again have the best attendance of the round again this week in, although it should be close between Leeds, Saints and Warrington.

I thought it would be closer, but Leeds have blown Saints and Warrington v Wigan out of the water to once again take the best attendance of the round 

[Hammerless Nail]

12 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

I thought it would be closer, but Leeds have blown Saints and Warrington v Wigan out of the water to once again take the best attendance of the round 

I think Leeds are just amazing, and barely a day goes by that I don't celebrate their very existence.

[Jughead]

Maybe this is the title Sir Kev thought Leeds would win this year, not the one on the pitch. 

[GeordieSaint]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

I recall being disappointed when Fitzpatrick took over, but then we had a couple of good years under him, and some of the things he said in interviews were sound, if a little basic.

I went to school with Fitzpatrick. He was a very good rugby player; but a pretty awful student. But people can and absolutely do develop educationally over time and can be real successes later in life in a whole range of areas. 

But experience (and suitable experience) is critical. We as a sport rely too heavily on promoting former players into positions of responsibility like a CEO; and too quickly with no experience. A qualification with playing experience does not make you a suitably qualified and experienced individual for a high level appointment like a CEO. It is no wonder Warrington (after some initial success) and Wigan are struggling off the field (and Leeds on it - see Sinfield). There is no real experience beyond gimmicky concepts to push the clubs forward during difficult times. 

Edited April 30, 2022 by GeordieSaint

[Dave T]

36 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

I went to school with Fitzpatrick. He was a very good rugby player; but a pretty awful student. But people can and absolutely do develop educationally over time and can be real successes later in life in a whole range of areas. 

But experience (and suitable experience) is critical. We as a sport rely too heavily on promoting former players into positions of responsibility like a CEO; and too quickly with no experience. A qualification with playing experience does not make you a suitably qualified and experienced individual for a high level appointment like a CEO. It is no wonder Warrington (after some initial success) and Wigan are struggling off the field (and Leeds on it - see Sinfield). There is no real experience beyond gimmicky concepts to push the clubs forward during difficult times. 

I noticed on LinkedIn the other day that we are still advertising player sponsorships, and we are approaching halfway through the season. There was at least one first teamers last night without a sponsorship, I don't think I can ever recall that at Wire. 

[Damien]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

I recall being disappointed when Fitzpatrick took over, but then we had a couple of good years under him, and some of the things he said in interviews were sound, if a little basic. 

I have no idea why things have taken a downturn this year, but I can see an operation being run on the cheap when I see one. 

You rarely hear from the ub nowadays, but all the talk from being the Premier RL club in the world has gone, and we certainly aren't behaving like a club with those ambitions. And I'm not talking about on-field, many fans are peed off with recruitment, but it is what it is, I'm solely referring to off-field. 

Stuff that we have been doing for years and years (with decent results) have just slowly drifted away. 

In reading your posts there are certainly many parallels in the off field failings at Warrington and Wigan. It's almost uncanny.

I do think that many of our RL clubs are badly run and I think they, and the game generally, needs to think more about recruiting more from outside. Being involved in RL for a long time is a pretty poor qualification when it comes to suitability for off field and senior positions.

[idrewthehaggis]

Personally I think the issues of attendances will be around reduced available incomes because of the economy. 

About people's misgivings at Wigan and Wire, how much is this about individual clubs in their silos trying but faltering, when a collective response might have more impact as more cost effective? 

[Big Picture]

12 hours ago, Cameron Highlander said:

Hi all.  I have followed this thread from the beginning with much interest.  And, I do not want to derail the thread subject matter at all, at all.  But I've just read the last 3 pages (~75 posts) and ~90% of them are all to do with Wakefield Trinity and it's attendance last night relative to whether the new stand will help increase attendances or make no difference to them.  Ancillary to this discussion are views on the state of the rest of the facility and how that will not change, the washroom facilities on offer, and how to market the team to the 41K residents of the Town/City with a view to increasing fan attendance.  There were even a couple of posts about prawn sandwiches, and, I regret to say that I do not know if they are "high-end" or "low-end" fodder but they would seem to hold some importance in the grand scheme of things.   Then we got into the pros and cons of whether it would be better if Wakefield were replaced by either one of Fev., or Leigh, or York and whether any of them could better the Wakefield attendances.  My impression on that is that perhaps marginally but pretty much a saw-off, apples for apples.  We are talking here about whether they can get 4K, or 5K, or 6K, or more in crowds.  This competition is the Creme de la Creme of Rugby League in the Northern Hemisphere for goodness sake.  Now here's the bit where I allude to not wanting to derail the subject matter.  I'd like to point you to the thread called "Wow just wow" with the last post yesterday at 3:17 by Dunbar.  It has had 2.2K views so I'm sure that most of you have viewed it.  But I would ask you to really study, really think about, and really absorb the ramification of following the process(es) described in "The Sydney Morning Herald" article that are being used just for talent development and tracking by the Penrith Panthers of the NRL.   These kinds of management tools are what are being used all over the world by the top teams in all major sports.   Now, I ask you, are the top teams in our NH Rugby League, Saints, Wigan, and Leeds using tools like Penrith are for a similar purpose?  I sense not and the reasons will be that we don't have the money for this, or we don't need to do anything like this.   I'd absolutely be delighted if Super League were able to rival the NRL in status in the Rugby League world, and I ask would you folks on here like to see that happen too?    But, it seems let's all just discuss the relative pros and cons of prawn sandwiches.

Rant over......  I'll see myself out....

Quite possibly both of those reasons you gave there apply.

We've seen with their worry about how many "away fans" an opponent will bring along to their stadiums and their poor treatment of clubs in non-traditional areas (denying them an equal share of the TV money, making them pay visiting teams' expenses, etc.) that they're stuck in outdated ways of operating and resistant to changing.

Then there's the fact that they're located in the wrong sort of places to generate more money coming in because they can't access the sort of money needed from smallish, unfashionable, economically disadvantaged towns which the public at large doesn't think of as the sort of places where big time major pro sport is played.  Eric Pérez was right a few years ago when he said that they've maxed out the revenues they can generate on that basis, but they have no solution to that problem as things stand.

[Eddie]

28 minutes ago, idrewthehaggis said:

Personally I think the issues of attendances will be around reduced available incomes because of the economy. 

 

Are football attendances going down though? I haven’t noticed that. 

[Damien]

31 minutes ago, idrewthehaggis said:

Personally I think the issues of attendances will be around reduced available incomes because of the economy. 

About people's misgivings at Wigan and Wire, how much is this about individual clubs in their silos trying but faltering, when a collective response might have more impact as more cost effective? 

Attendances aren't just declining now though or because of Covid. They were on a downward trend before that.

[EggFace]

6 hours ago, Dave T said:

So, here's my regular moan about the Wire clubs efforts off the field. 

Once again, this was a, nothing event. They made it a retro shirt night, which seemed to get announced just a few days ago, and purely based in the fact we had two retro kits to sell. 

We arrived an hour early and sat in the sun in our seats. There was a junior game that finished around 7.15, and literally nothing else pre-match. No dancers, no DJ, no flame throwers as they walked out, no light show, no entertainment in the bowl - all things that used to be standard. 

Once again, we opened the doors and played a game. 

I was also disgusted pre-match, as we were in so early there must have been 5 if us in the concourse as we'd just grabbed a drink to take up. A Wire employee marched along the concourse, youngish, clearly power mad, and he shouted at the top if his voice "how old are you... You, how old are you?" to one of the shell-shocked agency kids working behind the bar. It was an appalling way to speak to staff, and an appalling way to speak in front of customers. How you treat the lowest paid in an organisation is a good reflection of your business values. The guy was a scumbag and I'm afraid I'd have been telling him where to go if it was me. The group of kids working looked shell-shocked, and a lady spectator also present was shocked, and exchanged looks and head shakes with us. It sounds like a minor point, but I was pretty disgusted tbh. 

You should of reported him.

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, EggFace said:

You should of reported him.

Tbh, it's one of those where I wish I'd have said something at the time, but I was rather shocked and it all happened quickly. I decided then I would report it afterwards as I have time, location, description etc. 

It was all so unnecessary, and clear bully-boy behaviour. 

[Damien]

4 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Tbh, it's one of those where I wish I'd have said something at the time, but I was rather shocked and it all happened quickly. I decided then I would report it afterwards as I have time, location, description etc. 

It was all so unnecessary, and clear bully-boy behaviour. 

I hate bully boy managers and especially those that take it out on kids just starting out. I'd hate to think anyone would treat my kids like that when they start work. I recall myself in my first part time job a manager kind of like how you describe. These people are usually cowards and treat people completely different depending on their age and status and it's completely wrong.

[Dave T]

17 minutes ago, Damien said:

I hate bully boy managers and especially those that take it out on kids just starting out. I'd hate to think anyone would treat my kids like that when they start work. I recall myself in my first part time job a manager kind of like how you describe. These people are usually cowards and treat people completely different depending on their age and status and it's completely wrong.

I had just been to that hatch and bought three drinks, the atmosphere behind there was really friendly, they are always young kids but one of them made a mistake and asked a silly question and they all laughed at each other etc. Service was good and I walked away. Within seconds that friendly atmosphere had turned toxic and young 18 year old workers were suddenly looking shell-shocked and stunned at each other. 

Even when the kid answered saying he was 18, the guy didn't even acknowledge it or say thanks, he just continued to march off down the concourse. Its why it all happened so quickly. 

For me things like that give an indication of a culture at a place, and I wouldn't work somewhere like that. 

[Spidey]

5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I had just been to that hatch and bought three drinks, the atmosphere behind there was really friendly, they are always young kids but one of them made a mistake and asked a silly question and they all laughed at each other etc. Service was good and I walked away. Within seconds that friendly atmosphere had turned toxic and young 18 year old workers were suddenly looking shell-shocked and stunned at each other. 

Even when the kid answered saying he was 18, the guy didn't even acknowledge it or say thanks, he just continued to march off down the concourse. Its why it all happened so quickly. 

For me things like that give an indication of a culture at a place, and I wouldn't work somewhere like that. 

They’ll just say they outsource the catering and will “have a word” there won’t be any direct employees to discipline 

[redjonn]

Leeds had a 90's DJ playing the music at the game - think his name was Pat Sharp. The week before it was 80's music.    I thought it added to the entertainment even though not my era. 

At least they make the effort plus the normal half time kids playing on the pitch.

The KR CEO spoke at our hospitality and mentioned that at KR they did a market, which he thought added to their games.

ON that point both The Leeds and KR CEO said as part of their workstream we should expect some announcement regards marketing and promotional expertise coming in to SL.... They sounded very upbeat about it...

Edited April 30, 2022 by redjonn

[Wellsy4HullFC]

11k at Hull today. Can't remember the exact figure announced. Great atmosphere before the match with the family fun day. My little girl loved it.

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, Spidey said:

They’ll just say they outsource the catering and will “have a word” there won’t be any direct employees to discipline 

It was a Wire employee, suited and booted who behaved like this, not the catering staff. 

[Spidey]

29 minutes ago, Dave T said:

It was a Wire employee, suited and booted who behaved like this, not the catering staff. 

Wow, not good