Attendances (Multiple Merged Threads)

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

I agree with the point of your post, people make all sorts of outlandish claims and then make excuses when they don't happen. 

But on Toulouse particularly, we have a decent history of good crowds in Toulouse. Over 12k for France v NZ 13 years ago, when Cayalans took a game there v Hull KR they got 12k apparently, and Catalans have also delivered huge crowds in Barcelona and Montpellier so there is no reason to believe that a big Derby between Toulouse and Catalans wouldn't deliver a very big crowd. 

But Toulouse have been rubbish and lost all momentum, which is a far bigger issue than Thursday night. 

It's worth saying, as well, that a lot of the assumptions are the kind that people make when they say that Newcastle, York, Leigh, Fev (etc) will obviously increase their crowds by X when promoted.

[GUBRATS]

4 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

It's worth saying, as well, that a lot of the assumptions are the kind that people make when they say that Newcastle, York, Leigh, Fev (etc) will obviously increase their crowds by X when promoted.

The assumption is usually based on being competitive , Leigh in 17 averaged 6500 , so being realistic our home support was somewhere between 4500 and 5000 , a good 1500 to 2000 up on the previous promotion season , but we were competitive , which is the key , given the start Toulouse have had then it's probably understandable 

[gingerjon]

5 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

The assumption is usually based on being competitive , Leigh in 17 averaged 6500 , so being realistic our home support was somewhere between 4500 and 5000 , a good 1500 to 2000 up on the previous promotion season , but we were competitive , which is the key , given the start Toulouse have had then it's probably understandable 

Yes, I wasn't doing those teams down at all - just making an observation.

I'm not quite sure how Toulouse managed to lose such momentum between promotion and starting SL but the worry has to be that whatever 'core' they had created seems to have decided they may have better things to do.

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

Yes, I wasn't doing those teams down at all - just making an observation.

I'm not quite sure how Toulouse managed to lose such momentum between promotion and starting SL but the worry has to be that whatever 'core' they had created seems to have decided they may have better things to do.

As I said , being competitive , and getting some points early on , in truth being in that big stadium won't help either 

[meast]

I know there was still some covid restrictions in place and the Giants aren't the best travellers but the opening game at Toulouse was probably the most flattest, low key game I've been to.

There was absolutely nothing, if it wasn't for the band and a few noisy Toulouse fans it would have been like watching an academy game, the attendance couldn't have been Nord than 2,000 even though it was given out at 5,000 ish.

Absolutely no enthusiasm at all, it was really disappointing as I expected it to be buzzing and boisterous

[Josef K]

Which clubs did not announce their official gates over the weekend ?. 

[meast]

14 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

But they werent allowed to do anything so couldnt make it an event.  Look at that 9000 covid lifted playoff crowd and I am sure they would have pushed.  

Lets hope they sneak a few wins and can make the best of Catalan game. 

Yes there were some covid restrictions in place, such as no food and drinks served inside the stadium but there was nothing outside the ground, nothing, just the game.

As much as I loved my few days in Toulouse and would love both French sides to be strong, on and off the field, I got the impression that there was very little feel or support for TO.

I am also open minded that on the same weekend, Stade Toulouse and the French national side were also involved in big RU games and Toulouse FC also had an important game too, but the attendances since have suggested that TO are going to struggle to attract crowds.

IMO, I don't think Catalans v Toulouse will ever be the seismic event many people hope it will, the 2 cities are 130 miles away from each other, and whilst they are in the same country, it would be similar to people thinking Doncaster v London could be a big derby that people will flock to.

[meast]

I'd be very surprised if there's more than 5,000 there for the visit of Catalans to be honest, I can't see many dragons fans making the journey just as very few Toulouse fans made the journey to Perpignan.

As I say, I'd love to see it, but I think the only people who really think this is something big are a few people back in the UK, the domestic leagues in France don't attract particularly big crowds and I don't think Catalans v Toulouse will either.

[Scubby]

29 minutes ago, meast said:

I'd be very surprised if there's more than 5,000 there for the visit of Catalans to be honest, I can't see many dragons fans making the journey just as very few Toulouse fans made the journey to Perpignan.

As I say, I'd love to see it, but I think the only people who really think this is something big are a few people back in the UK, the domestic leagues in France don't attract particularly big crowds and I don't think Catalans v Toulouse will either.

So those games both being on a Thursday night with the teams 2 hours apart won't impact on that? Catalans fans have shown they will travel in their 1000s to support their team - 32k in Barcelona and 12k in Toulouse for a Catalans home game with Hull KR.

A Thursday night fixture however, is completely nuts and will cost Toulouse 4-5k travelling Catalans supporters.

[Archie Gordon]

1 hour ago, meast said:

Yes there were some covid restrictions in place, such as no food and drinks served inside the stadium but there was nothing outside the ground, nothing, just the game.

As much as I loved my few days in Toulouse and would love both French sides to be strong, on and off the field, I got the impression that there was very little feel or support for TO.

I am also open minded that on the same weekend, Stade Toulouse and the French national side were also involved in big RU games and Toulouse FC also had an important game too, but the attendances since have suggested that TO are going to struggle to attract crowds.

IMO, I don't think Catalans v Toulouse will ever be the seismic event many people hope it will, the 2 cities are 130 miles away from each other, and whilst they are in the same country, it would be similar to people thinking Doncaster v London could be a big derby that people will flock to.

I tend to agree.

This time there was activity outside the ground - food/drink, shop, table tennis, football/darts game, TO squad players wandering around - but there just weren't very many home supporters. Probably just the same hardcore that were around in the Championship.

I'm open minded about the Catalans game - it could have a pull factor that I'm unaware of. 

[meast]

12 minutes ago, Scubby said:

So those games both being on a Thursday night with the teams 2 hours apart won't impact on that? Catalans fans have shown they will travel in their 1000s to support their team - 32k in Barcelona and 12k in Toulouse for a Catalans home game with Hull KR.

A Thursday night fixture however, is completely nuts and will cost Toulouse 4-5k travelling Catalans supporters.

I don't think Thursday nights would have any bearing on the attendance, as I said, I just don't think there's as much interest in it as a few people in the UK like to think.

[Scubby]

20 minutes ago, meast said:

I don't think Thursday nights would have any bearing on the attendance, as I said, I just don't think there's as much interest in it as a few people in the UK like to think.

And I told you had it been on a weekend 4-5k more Catalans fans (and other French RL fans) would have travelled to Toulouse pushing that crowd into five figures. Catalans have had 12k for a "home" league game at Toulouse before. Toulouse have had 9k for the Championship GF last year. The SL scheduling is nuts. 

We are not talking about core Toulouse games here. We are talking about a showpiece French derby.

[meast]

19 minutes ago, Scubby said:

And I told you had it been on a weekend 4-5k more Catalans fans (and other French RL fans) would have travelled to Toulouse pushing that crowd into five figures. Catalans have had 12k for a "home" league game at Toulouse before. Toulouse have had 9k for the Championship GF last year. The SL scheduling is nuts. 

We are not talking about core Toulouse games here. We are talking about a showpiece French derby.

You really think 2/3rds of Catalans home support would travel 150 miles for a game?

It doesn't happen anywhere else in the world so why would it here?

As for the last sentence, it's not a showpiece French derby to French people, it's just another game, it's only a showpiece French derby to a few people in the UK.

[Scubby]

6 minutes ago, meast said:

You really think 2/3rds of Catalans home support would travel 150 miles for a game?

It doesn't happen anywhere else in the world so why would it here?

As for the last sentence, it's not a showpiece French derby to French people, it's just another game, it's only a showpiece French derby to a few people in the UK.

It wouldn't be just Catalans supporters who go to home games. French RL fans come from all over - there were 1000s of non Toulouse fans at the Championship Grand Final. How do you think Catalans got 12k at Toulouse v Hull KR or 32k at Barcelona - the biggest crowd ever in SL. Anyone who knows French RL will be able to tell you how passionate they are about the sport.

Toulouse core support is in its infancy. But a weekend French derby would have brought fans in from other RL hotbeds like Narbonne, St Gaudens, Limoux, Avignon. In addition you would have travelling fans from Catalans.

Thursday night puts the p#sser on all that. It was a nuts and completely short-sighted decision by SL schedulers trying to cram in 2 games in a week.

[JonNgog]

27 minutes ago, meast said:

You really think 2/3rds of Catalans home support would travel 150 miles for a game?

It doesn't happen anywhere else in the world so why would it here?

As for the last sentence, it's not a showpiece French derby to French people, it's just another game, it's only a showpiece French derby to a few people in the UK.

Maybe don’t give such confident opinions on something you clearly know very little about? It’s not ‘just another game’ to them at all. Catalans supporters have travelled in their thousands to Toulouse, Montpellier and Barcelona for standard league matches. They get one ‘local’ away game in the league for the first time ever, you bet they would have travelled to it en masse on a Saturday afternoon.

[Jughead]

It’s seems like a lot of excuses with Toulouse’s attendances this year. Covid, Thursday’s, Rugby Union. 

It is early days and they need time to grow, in the same way Catalans and their crowds did. Unfortunately, it might not be possible. 

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

16 hours ago, Josef K said:

Which clubs did not announce their official gates over the weekend ?. 

Warrington, Batley, York, all L1 clubs managed to and I think that someone's posted that York have problems with the stadium management about this. Be interesting to know what Wire pulled in given that it was a dismal weekend for SL attendances.

[Stirlin]

The York situation baffles us supporters , City always post theirs but the stadium management company is run by City and for some reason our officials do not agree with the SMC figures for Knights games , what the sticking point could be.....no one is prepared to say. For now we rely on our statto's guesstimate.

[GUBRATS]

38 minutes ago, Stirlin said:

The York situation baffles us supporters , City always post theirs but the stadium management company is run by City and for some reason our officials do not agree with the SMC figures for Knights games , what the sticking point could be.....no one is prepared to say. For now we rely on our statto's guesstimate.

The stadium is run by the football club ? , Oh dear 

[fevtom]

Just a quick update on the Super League averages so far.

St Helens	13304
Leeds Rhinos	12550
Wigan Warriors	10816
Hull FC	10710
Warrington Wolves	8922
Castleford Tigers	8476
Hull Kingston Rovers	8134
Catalans Dragons	7692
Toulouse Olympique	5210
Huddersfield Giants	5199
Wakefield Trinity	4716
Salford Red Devils	4464

Huddersfield have a fantastic offer on half season tickets and looks like they’re coming up with ideas to boost the atmosphere too.

[Tommygilf]

10 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Some grim numbers in cold light of day but still convinced we are only one challenger short of having a good core to build on and give the comp enough good fixtures on a weekly basis.  

Agreed, the slump and/or stagnation from even a decade ago is quite worrying. Nobody has stepped into the Bradford shaped hole either.

[Jughead]

1 hour ago, ShropshireBull said:

A global pandemic,  ###### poor booking and losing 500k off the bat seem reasonable excuses. 

They’re just not as well supported as people believe(d). It is year one, however, and Catalans have shown growth is achievable. 

[gingerjon]

10 hours ago, fevtom said:

Just a quick update on the Super League averages so far.

St Helens	13304
Leeds Rhinos	12550
Wigan Warriors	10816
Hull FC	10710
Warrington Wolves	8922
Castleford Tigers	8476
Hull Kingston Rovers	8134
Catalans Dragons	7692
Toulouse Olympique	5210
Huddersfield Giants	5199
Wakefield Trinity	4716
Salford Red Devils	4464

Huddersfield have a fantastic offer on half season tickets and looks like they’re coming up with ideas to boost the atmosphere too.

Just for a bit a memory jogger, I got the 2002 averages from Rugby League Project:

Team	Average
Leeds	11910
Bradford	11542
St Helens	10572
Wigan	10300
Hull FC	6928
Castleford	6698
Widnes	6310
Warrington	6270
Salford	4199
Halifax	4152
Wakefield	3889
London	3763

[Eddie]

14 hours ago, JonNgog said:

Maybe don’t give such confident opinions on something you clearly know very little about? It’s not ‘just another game’ to them at all. Catalans supporters have travelled in their thousands to Toulouse, Montpellier and Barcelona for standard league matches. They get one ‘local’ away game in the league for the first time ever, you bet they would have travelled to it en masse on a Saturday afternoon.

A very confident opinion based on as little info as the one that you criticised.
 

You can’t compare a trip to the Nou Camp with a trip to a standard league game, any more than Lowestoft taking 15k to Wembley for the FA Vase final is an indication of how many they’d take to Great Yarmouth for a league game (clue, it’s 1% of that). 

[Eddie]

23 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Just for a bit a memory jogger, I got the 2002 averages from Rugby League Project:

Team	Average
Leeds	11910
Bradford	11542
St Helens	10572
Wigan	10300
Hull FC	6928
Castleford	6698
Widnes	6310
Warrington	6270
Salford	4199
Halifax	4152
Wakefield	3889
London	3763

Thanks. So other than Bradford, Widnes, Fax and London (all in lower leagues now) they’re doing ok.