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Attendances (Multiple Merged Threads)


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8 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

When people talk about non league clubs getting big crowds it should be pointed out they are mostly huge former league teams that found themselves down there as village teams doped themselves out of the conference. 

[Digression to respond - any further and it can go on to a separate AOB thread]

Should it?

Because that's not true.

Yes, there are the former league teams pulling in higher crowds in the Conference than they ever did when they were struggling in the league but I'm talking about the several hundred other clubs across the leagues and tiers who all seem to be doing very well indeed for attendances. Every league I look at seems to have increased this season against its pre pandemic average.

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7 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

[Digression to respond - any further and it can go on to a separate AOB thread]

Should it?

Because that's not true.

Yes, there are the former league teams pulling in higher crowds in the Conference than they ever did when they were struggling in the league but I'm talking about the several hundred other clubs across the leagues and tiers who all seem to be doing very well indeed for attendances. Every league I look at seems to have increased this season against its pre pandemic average.

Dont have any league year on year stats I can look up right now so have to park this one.  

On us,  I think we are doing ok and the clubs that are suffering (Bradford) we've been aware of why for a very long time.  

I am hopeful that if we cant be saved the growth in other areas York Eagles Barrow can pick up the slack. 

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10 hours ago, gingerjon said:

[Digression to respond - any further and it can go on to a separate AOB thread]

Should it?

Because that's not true.

Yes, there are the former league teams pulling in higher crowds in the Conference than they ever did when they were struggling in the league but I'm talking about the several hundred other clubs across the leagues and tiers who all seem to be doing very well indeed for attendances. Every league I look at seems to have increased this season against its pre pandemic average.

There are 4 clubs in Yorkshire (*) alone that have pulled in over 1,000 gates this season at levels 8-10.

The national league isn't really non league anymore, it's the 5th professional tier.

Shame these crowd increases don't relate to RL!

 

(*)= One is in Humberside but I'll let them off 😜

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Any guesses at the cup final attendance? I’d say 15,000 from Wigan, 5,000 from Huddersfield, 20,000 neutrals so a total of 40,000. 

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1 minute ago, Eddie said:

Any guesses at the cup final attendance? I’d say 15,000 from Wigan, 5,000 from Huddersfield, 20,000 neutrals so a total of 40,000. 

They will add on 1895 Cup sales too - at least another 5,000 across both teams.

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35 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Any guesses at the cup final attendance? I’d say 15,000 from Wigan, 5,000 from Huddersfield, 20,000 neutrals so a total of 40,000. 

Even I have to believe that giants take more than 5k.  First final in yonks,  new stadium.  Dodd will probably do something to reduce bus costs. 

Wigan no final (with fans) in a few years either.  

Hoping Giants can be aggressive and target 10k.  Pies 15k,  5k from both Fev and Leigh so thats 35k. Rfl should be able to sell or have sold  the rest. 

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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Even I have to believe that giants take more than 5k.  First final in yonks,  new stadium.  Dodd will probably do something to reduce bus costs. 

Wigan no final (with fans) in a few years either.  

Hoping Giants can be aggressive and target 10k.  Pies 15k,  5k from both Fev and Leigh so thats 35k. Rfl should be able to sell or have sold  the rest. 

Clubs need to make money out of reaching finals, not subsidie the costs of fans travelling to the final. I think Huddersfield will take 10k, Wigan 20k, 2k-3k from Leigh and Featherstone, with approx 25k neutral RL fans/general sports fans/Tottenham fans.

Edited by Sir Kevin Sinfield
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1 hour ago, Eddie said:

Any guesses at the cup final attendance? I’d say 15,000 from Wigan, 5,000 from Huddersfield, 20,000 neutrals so a total of 40,000. 

It was over 50K when Catalans were in the final and 62K the following year. I seriously doubt that moving it to Spurs is going to knock 20k off the crowd figure.

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1 hour ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Clubs need to make money out of reaching finals, not subsidie the costs of fans travelling to the final. I think Huddersfield will take 10k, Wigan 20k, 2k-3k from Leigh and Featherstone, with approx 25k neutral RL fans/general sports fans/Tottenham fans.

Of course but Ken isnt in it for the money and how many times will he get the chance to see his club in a final? 

Just hope they bring enough to make a racket. 

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2 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Of course but Ken isnt in it for the money and how many times will he get the chance to see his club in a final? 

Just hope they bring enough to make a racket. 

This will be his 3rd, not bad for a club who were a decent 2nd division side when he took over.

If HTFC get to the play off final i reckon we'd get quite a few doing both, we took 14,000 in 2009 no reason why we can't again.

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3 minutes ago, daz39 said:

This will be his 3rd, not bad for a club who were a decent 2nd division side when he took over.

If HTFC get to the play off final i reckon we'd get quite a few doing both, we took 14,000 in 2009 no reason why we can't again.

I was trying to politely say he is getting on.  10k would be great.  Plus we've got a preview on Friday coming up. 

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16 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

I was trying to politely say he is getting on.  10k would be great.  Plus we've got a preview on Friday coming up. 

sorry i misinterpreted it, you obviously meant how many more times, yes i agree - great to see our future leader, his granddaughter clapping along to the cowbells in the posh seats too.

 

Oh and it's Thursday btw.

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The biggest question I have with regard to crowds is why has the decline of crowds over the last few years continued since lockdown?

The comparison with soccer is significant and I don,t mean the top of their game but at the fourth and fifth tiers.

 

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13 hours ago, Eddie said:

Any guesses at the cup final attendance? I’d say 15,000 from Wigan, 5,000 from Huddersfield, 20,000 neutrals so a total of 40,000. 

 

13 hours ago, gingerjon said:

They will add on 1895 Cup sales too - at least another 5,000 across both teams.

I think the crowd could be quite a range tbh. 

If we look at the last full final we got 62k for Saints v Wire. If I'm going to be positive I'd hope we can achieve that again, and hopefully then get that sellout. Wire took a low following to that game, far lower than any of our previous trips and tbh I don't think it will have been much more than Hudds will take. So let's maybe knock 5k off that 62k.

But then we do know that we often get a boost on crowds for novelty, on the first time we visit a quality stadium. So there has to be hope that the uplift there would compensate and hopefully add more than that. 

The question is whether Spurs ground puts people off because its not Wembley. It wouldn't for me if I was free, but some like the tradition of Wembley. 

I'd be disappointed if we can't get an almost full house, even with Hudds there and their more modest fan base. 

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15 minutes ago, bamfordsbeans said:

The biggest question I have with regard to crowds is why has the decline of crowds over the last few years continued since lockdown?

The comparison with soccer is significant and I don,t mean the top of their game but at the fourth and fifth tiers.

 

Aging fan base,  loop fixtures,  poor leadership creating negative feeling around game.  No proper internationals to re-engage floating fans around sport. 

Thats my take anyway. 

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I'm delighted for Ken Davy, who has done as much for rl and his local community in general as anyone. Hope he has a great day.

incidentally, anyone local know what his plansare for the Huddersfield YMCA RUFC sports fields? I heard it may become the training base for the Giants but any accurate, up to date local knowledge would be appreciated.

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Just for comparison and not sure if relevant but went to Leeds arena yesterday for a Netball SL club game (Leeds Rhino's v Manchester Thunder) and the attendance was over 4100.

Given that Leeds don't have a home arena and play between Hull, Sheffield and Leeds that's not a bad attendance.

Plus the demographic was mainly young and of course mainly female. It seems a very vibrant growing sport and growing.  So they seem to be doing something right...

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6 minutes ago, redjonn said:

Just for comparison and not sure if relevant but went to Leeds arena yesterday for a Netball SL club game (Leeds Rhino's v Manchester Thunder) and the attendance was over 4100.

Given that Leeds don't have a home arena and play between Hull, Sheffield and Leeds that's not a bad attendance.

Plus the demographic was mainly young and of course mainly female. It seems a very vibrant growing sport and growing.  So they seem to be doing something right...

You’d expect girls who play netball go want to go to see that tbf, and there will be club / school trips; so if anything I’m surprised the crowd is so low. 

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1 minute ago, Eddie said:

You’d expect girls who play netball go want to go to see that tbf, and there will be club / school trips; so if anything I’m surprised the crowd is so low. 

That's a very good crowd.  Can't see why you say 4100 is a low crowd for a Netball club game.   Last game in Leeds was over 3000 and so its growth and a record crowd for Leeds Rhino netball.

Especially considering they played Friday as well as Sunday, two games over the weekend, all be it one in Hull.  So its not as if you can get a consistent group of supporters that go every game.

I still think we as RL can learn from how Netball have significantly grown over the last decade and continue to grow,  Especially Yorkshire which doesn't have the infrastructure or pathways of the North west.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, bamfordsbeans said:

The biggest question I have with regard to crowds is why has the decline of crowds over the last few years continued since lockdown?

The comparison with soccer is significant and I don,t mean the top of their game but at the fourth and fifth tiers.

 

I think we need to be careful about the RL decline - it's not an inexorable one, at least in Superleague.

The SL per game average peaked at around 9.5k in the late 2000s. It had then fallen to around 8.5k by the three years prior the pandemic (2017-19). So a 10% decline. Certainly a concern and we can debate why. (Licensing and austerity possibly but not loops as most of the period was 14 teams, IMO) 

However, the stats for this season so far show the same figure - 8.5k - helped a bit by Toulouse averaging more than London did.  It's still early days, maybe they'll tail off towards the end of the season, but so far you could argue SL attendances have stablised at where they were pre-pandemic. I'd be interested to know where the Championship figures stand over the same period (removing Toronto's numbers as they were an exceptional item)      

Not a cause from complacency of course - standing still is going backwards in comparison to lower league football as you say - and the cup is definitely still declining. But there's a base to build on and hopefully take springboard from the World Cup.

Edited by Toby Chopra
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On another thread Harry Stottle has posted that Leigh have 4 games of significance left of the season,  1895 final, Fev,  Bash and GF. 4 left and it's still early May! That's the problem,  not enough meaningful games to bring in crowds. Not wishing to turn this thread into something else,  but if we had 2 down from SL , then suddenly Leeds and Wakefield and Toulouse have many more big games to play to entice the fans. One automatically up from Championship and a four team play off for the other promotion place,  as in Soccer's Championship and suddenly the season goes to the wire for most clubs. Perhaps the age old concept of fans turning up to see a good old game of RL for the sake of it despite the context are drawing to a close.

Attendances towards the end of the season for soccer for teams in play off contention have been very good. 44,000 at Sunderland the other night, another 35,000 plus expected tonight at Sheffield Wednesday. Give fans of RL matches with real meaning and they'll come back. Of course turkeys don't vote for Xmas so I don't expect 2 down from SL any time soon.

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