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Attendances (Multiple Merged Threads)


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5 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

4003 announced at Salford

A decent crowd with the dreadful weather we are having. With the good start by the Red Devils that can only be a big positive, and hopefully their crowds will continue to rise. 

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5 hours ago, Josef K said:

A decent crowd with the dreadful weather we are having. With the good start by the Red Devils that can only be a big positive, and hopefully their crowds will continue to rise. 

If they move to Moor Lane they can only rise by 1000.

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1 hour ago, Davo5 said:

If they move to Moor Lane they can only rise by 1000.

That’s ok, if they sold out 5,100 every week it would be bouncing in there, loads better than where they are currently. 

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34 minutes ago, Eddie said:

That’s ok, if they sold out 5,100 every week it would be bouncing in there, loads better than where they are currently. 

This will never happen, in my experience a smaller stadium puts people off.

A good example was during the 2001 Ashes when they picked smaller stadia to guarantee sellouts and didn't sell out a 24k stadium for the opener. The previous series had all got 40k for the 3 games.

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27 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Sale Rugby Union manage to get better attendances at the same ground with what we believe to be an inferior product. Why can’t Salford? 

They are also the only professional rugby union team in the north west - a pretty huge captive market. And yet their crowds are still rather underwhelming.

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On 18/02/2022 at 18:14, Dave T said:

I agree people need to stop blaming Thursday nights, but the only ones doing at are professional seat counters on places like this. Clubs are just cracking on with it. 

I'd agree with most of that, but I'd be a little careful around this bit. I recall at the end of last season there were some unattributed quotes flying around from one club leader bemoaning the loss of another group of "away fans" after Toulouse won the Championship final.

I'd like to think the comments made by that individual were an outlier, but I worry that's somewhat wishful thinking. 

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50 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Sale Rugby Union manage to get better attendances at the same ground with what we believe to be an inferior product. Why can’t Salford? 

Because Sale Union are drawing fans from all over the NW, as the only top flight club in their sport in the whole region. 

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7 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

I'd agree with most of that, but I'd be a little careful around this bit. I recall at the end of last season there were some unattributed quotes flying around from one club leader bemoaning the loss of another group of "away fans" after Toulouse won the Championship final.

I'd like to think the comments made by that individual were an outlier, but I worry that's somewhat wishful thinking. 

We undoubtedly have a few small time owners, Carter for example often comes out with small time stuff and has done about most things for years. 

However I think the international element of SL is more complicated than that, unfortunately it is often positioned in basic terms of things like away fans, which is just one outcome of going international. 

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2 hours ago, Maximus Decimus said:

This will never happen, in my experience a smaller stadium puts people off.

A good example was during the 2001 Ashes when they picked smaller stadia to guarantee sellouts and didn't sell out a 24k stadium for the opener. The previous series had all got 40k for the 3 games.

Ok I have to go the other way.  Watching in oversized grounds puts people off.  

I dont think internationals are gd comparisons. New ground offers more hope of Salford being viable if they ever were to go down and gives tv companies 13 extra tv friendly games. 

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6 minutes ago, fevtom said:

Did the Catalans v Wakefield attendance ever get announced?

It'll be interesting to see if there's any difference in the crowd recovery post covid between the UK and France.

7623 in League Express.

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2 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

Ok I have to go the other way.  Watching in oversized grounds puts people off.  

I dont think internationals are gd comparisons. New ground offers more hope of Salford being viable if they ever were to go down and gives tv companies 13 extra tv friendly games. 

I don't think this holds up to scrutiny, a big stadium often encourages people to attend. This doesn't mean it's always a better scenario. Take the time Wales got 17,000 at the Millenium Stadium in 2000, it looked dreadful on TV but had they held it at a much smaller stadium they almost certainly wouldn't have got near 17,000.

If Salford move to a 5000 stadium, they're done as a SL club. The idea that they'll pack it out is wishful thinking. It will just make them appear even more small time and crowds will drop further. I do have some sympathy for them as their move from Weaste has been a disaster, but they need to be in at least a 10,000 stadium.

We have numerous examples where a better, larger stadium has increased attendances even when it's resulted in a lot of empty seats. Take Hull FC, their stadium was half full at the weekend but I can remember a SL season opener not that long ago when a crowd of 6,000 for an opener was seen as a real boost.

I can't think of a single example where the reverse has happened.

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16 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

I don't think this holds up to scrutiny, a big stadium often encourages people to attend. This doesn't mean it's always a better scenario. Take the time Wales got 17,000 at the Millenium Stadium in 2000, it looked dreadful on TV but had they held it at a much smaller stadium they almost certainly wouldn't have got near 17,000.

If Salford move to a 5000 stadium, they're done as a SL club. The idea that they'll pack it out is wishful thinking. It will just make them appear even more small time and crowds will drop further. I do have some sympathy for them as their move from Weaste has been a disaster, but they need to be in at least a 10,000 stadium.

We have numerous examples where a better, larger stadium has increased attendances even when it's resulted in a lot of empty seats. Take Hull FC, their stadium was half full at the weekend but I can remember a SL season opener not that long ago when a crowd of 6,000 for an opener was seen as a real boost.

I can't think of a single example where the reverse has happened.

Ok we disagree on one point then but the fact that we both agree it looks woeful on TV is the point. We´re in a tv product era. If the product looks rubbish on tv we are in trouble and in some future I´d rather have 10/11k at Racecourse when Wales play England than a 20% capacity crowd. I think long term Salford in SL might have their days numbered regardless they have been protected from relegation for the last two seasons. If they can get in to Moor Lane and plonk a 3g pitch down, I actually think it´s a chance to rejuvenate the club in the long term. 

They have never met the requirements of the rental agreement in the box that is nowhere near any transport links or residential areas. I think the move to Moor Lane can be positive but I´ll guess we´ll have to wait and see. I offer you Darlington football club for the reverse. 

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2 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Ok we disagree on one point then but the fact that we both agree it looks woeful on TV is the point. We´re in a tv product era. If the product looks rubbish on tv we are in trouble and in some future I´d rather have 10/11k at Racecourse when Wales play England than a 20% capacity crowd. I think long term Salford in SL might have their days numbered regardless they have been protected from relegation for the last two seasons. If they can get in to Moor Lane and plonk a 3g pitch down, I actually think it´s a chance to rejuvenate the club in the long term. 

They have never met the requirements of the rental agreement in the box that is nowhere near any transport links or residential areas. I think the move to Moor Lane can be positive but I´ll guess we´ll have to wait and see. I offer you Darlington football club for the reverse. 

We need to be careful not to overstate the importance of our own personal views. The NRL has done very well as a TV product with far more empty seats than SL has. 

Your strategy of wanting 5k in 5k grounds instead of 11k in 24k grounds is actually harmful for the game.

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7 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Ok we disagree on one point then but the fact that we both agree it looks woeful on TV is the point. We´re in a tv product era. If the product looks rubbish on tv we are in trouble and in some future I´d rather have 10/11k at Racecourse when Wales play England than a 20% capacity crowd. I think long term Salford in SL might have their days numbered regardless they have been protected from relegation for the last two seasons. If they can get in to Moor Lane and plonk a 3g pitch down, I actually think it´s a chance to rejuvenate the club in the long term. 

They have never met the requirements of the rental agreement in the box that is nowhere near any transport links or residential areas. I think the move to Moor Lane can be positive but I´ll guess we´ll have to wait and see. I offer you Darlington football club for the reverse. 

They’ve won their first two games of the season and have reached two major finals in the last four years. Their days in SL aren’t numbered.

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6 minutes ago, Dave T said:

We need to be careful not to overstate the importance of our own personal views. The NRL has done very well as a TV product with far more empty seats than SL has. 

Your strategy of wanting 5k in 5k grounds instead of 11k in 24k grounds is actually harmful for the game.

NRL drives tv subscriptions and is on a completely different continent where football is not king. RL here doesn´t and we have to put the best product forward. I´d love if Salford were in that position but it´s not a choice between 11k for them or 5 k in a 5k stadium. It´s a choice between them having no long term assests they can sweat, looking awful on tv for the people who fund this sport or going to Moor Lane, suddenly increasing the amount of games that look bearable on TV alongside having a pitch they can use all year round. 

I´ll take the second option. And TV companies would as well. 

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2 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

NRL drives tv subscriptions and is on a completely different continent where football is not king. RL here doesn´t and we have to put the best product forward. I´d love if Salford were in that position but it´s not a choice between 11k for them or 5 k in a 5k stadium. It´s a choice between them having no long term assests they can sweat, looking awful on tv for the people who fund this sport or going to Moor Lane, suddenly increasing the amount of games that look bearable on TV alongside having a pitch they can use all year round. 

I´ll take the second option. And TV companies would as well. 

People are not stupid. They know a small club when they see them playing in a 5k stadium. 

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18 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

I offer you Darlington football club for the reverse. 

Megalomaniacal owner wilfully destroying the foundations of the club whilst hurtling into a destructive spiral leaving a trail of vanity projects behind?

I mean, if you think them not having a big enough crowd for the ground was the real problem then you were never paying attention. 

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Megalomaniacal owner wilfully destroying the foundations of the club whilst hurtling into a destructive spiral leaving a trail of vanity projects behind?

I mean, if you think them not having a big enough crowd for the ground was the real problem then you were never paying attention. 

Having been to visit Darlo and knowing the story intimately I don´t need a lecture thanks. I was asked for an example where going to a larger ground had hurt the club, I gave one. If you actually have anything useful to add to this discussion I´d be happy to hear it. 

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8 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

If you actually have anything useful to add to this discussion I´d be happy to hear it. 

All the evidence suggests that this is unlikely

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

All the evidence suggests that this is unlikely

If people make bad faith arguments or add nothing, I won´t waste time on it. If I say I think that long term Salford are probably not for SL and someone who usually responds to debates on a forum stating "what would you do then?" (thus missing the point of a forum) then uses two games this season as if that´s a "gotcha" moment, I won´t waste time on people who wont or cant read. 

 

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43 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Ok we disagree on one point then but the fact that we both agree it looks woeful on TV is the point. We´re in a tv product era. If the product looks rubbish on tv we are in trouble and in some future I´d rather have 10/11k at Racecourse when Wales play England than a 20% capacity crowd. I think long term Salford in SL might have their days numbered regardless they have been protected from relegation for the last two seasons. If they can get in to Moor Lane and plonk a 3g pitch down, I actually think it´s a chance to rejuvenate the club in the long term. 

They have never met the requirements of the rental agreement in the box that is nowhere near any transport links or residential areas. I think the move to Moor Lane can be positive but I´ll guess we´ll have to wait and see. I offer you Darlington football club for the reverse. 

Thanks for that. I think there is a balance where it looks woeful or doesn't, I don't think Hull FC or Wigan looks woeful but Salford does. However I don't think a stadium of 5,000 with empty seats would look better.

It actually looks like a tidyish stadium and if increased to 10k might be decent, but I don't know about location etc which has always been a problem with Barton.

The Darlington example is a hard one to judge, because it is mixed up with a variety of other issues. Their crowds have actually dropped significantly, but they are also 2 tiers lower than they were. They haven't consolidated their existing fan base into a smaller neater stadium which is what Salford are trying. 1,500 in a 3,300 stadium might be OK in the 6th tier of football but it wouldn't be much higher than that. Also, whilst the stadium might not have looked good on TV it offered potential, and they did get some crowds of 7-10k. Had they been promoted the stadium would've become an asset.

Salford moving to a 5,000 stadium will leave them with 2,500 and no scope for big crowds when a big rival comes.

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