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Attendances (Multiple Merged Threads)


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1 hour ago, Ray Cashmere said:

Not in this instance tbf, no. But it has been a theme of the last few pages. 

It's just the statements of personal opinion as fact highlighted above and elsewhere by people unwilling to do the most basic of research that becomes irksome. 

Will Salford own Moor Lane?

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Salford centre of attention again.

Keep it going kids!

Said this before, but increasing attendance should be a priority now. 

We need a collective effort to do so. it makes sense.

More punters-more money-less dependence on TV money.

It being RL we will get dinky little half efforts and countless distractors.

Owning your ground is cute, but owning all monies derived from it is cuter. 

The other sensible idea I wished we had done is a Fans Bond scheme.

Did I hear a squeak in the dark corner asking how clubs play for ground improvements?

Well one way are Bonds. Here in Shock City it funded FC United's ground and the Manchester Ship Canal.

Other ways for any budding business students on here. 

Government loans/grants.

Local government loans/grants.

Third sector grants/loans ie Sports England.

Supporter donations.

Club Development Fund

Community Shares

Crowdfunding

Loan stock scheme

Match day pennies in a tub

Increasing your already huge club debt by taking out even more debt Ian.

Private equity.

whip round on the coach home 

Blah, blah. It will be built. 

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3 hours ago, Ray Cashmere said:

Again. Have you bothered to read any of the now extensive detail on the Moor Lane thread before asking these questions?

You, and any other poster, have every right to think whatever you wish with regards to Salford. I have no interest in changing that. All I do ask is that you stop telling Salford fans and the people of Salford what they do or don't think and what they can or can't do without even pretending to engage in the substance of any of it.

It's a forum at the end of the day so you can do as you like but I'm sure I'm not the only one who finds it tedious.

I'm not sure where this has happened. You seem to make a big deal about asking Salford fans what they think, but you haven't asked them either. You might know a good representation of the sort of fan who is willing to attend a forum, but this isn't the same as the likely 10,000 or so people who will attend as a Salford supporter across a season.

In my opinion, you are far too defensive with any comment that is made around Salford, regardless of the intention or the substance. I have read the Moor Lane thread in its entirety, and whilst I accept that Salford may have no real alternative, I still think it will mean the end of them as a SL club. As a fan of a Championship club, this isn't necessarily the end of the world. One of the main reasons, and the main thing I have been pushing against in this thread is the idea that you can transfer 4,000 in a 12,000 stadium into 4,000 in a 5,000 stadium. In that thread you even go as far as saying 5,000 sellouts will look better than 4,000 in the AJ.

Examples of clubs downsizing in this way are actually few and far between, but I have demonstrated two concrete examples in RL where the exact same reasoning was used to justify moving an event to a smaller stadium. In both examples, they not only saw a significantly reduced crowd but didn't even sellout the smaller venue.

If Salford moved to Moor Lane, got 5,000 every week and then expanded it to 8,000 soon after then they would certainly have an argument considering other SL clubs' facilities. However, I suspect it would really mean a half-full Moor Lane that in turn would be even less appealing than the AJ is currently. 

 

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3 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Will Salford own Moor Lane?

As stated in the Moor Lane thread, if Salford proceed with Moor Lane it will be a minimum 15 year lease with full control over naming rights and sponsorship and full control of all matchday revenues (unless anything has materially changed from the last fans’ forum). 
 

Commercially, that is as good as owning the freehold (if you want to argue that it isn’t I refer you to my posts on the Moor Lane thread). 

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31 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

I'm not sure where this has happened. You seem to make a big deal about asking Salford fans what they think, but you haven't asked them either. You might know a good representation of the sort of fan who is willing to attend a forum, but this isn't the same as the likely 10,000 or so people who will attend as a Salford supporter across a season.

In my opinion, you are far too defensive with any comment that is made around Salford, regardless of the intention or the substance. I have read the Moor Lane thread in its entirety, and whilst I accept that Salford may have no real alternative, I still think it will mean the end of them as a SL club. As a fan of a Championship club, this isn't necessarily the end of the world. One of the main reasons, and the main thing I have been pushing against in this thread is the idea that you can transfer 4,000 in a 12,000 stadium into 4,000 in a 5,000 stadium. In that thread you even go as far as saying 5,000 sellouts will look better than 4,000 in the AJ.

Examples of clubs downsizing in this way are actually few and far between, but I have demonstrated two concrete examples in RL where the exact same reasoning was used to justify moving an event to a smaller stadium. In both examples, they not only saw a significantly reduced crowd but didn't even sellout the smaller venue.

If Salford moved to Moor Lane, got 5,000 every week and then expanded it to 8,000 soon after then they would certainly have an argument considering other SL clubs' facilities. However, I suspect it would really mean a half-full Moor Lane that in turn would be even less appealing than the AJ is currently. 

 

‘Likely’?! Please submit your business plan to Paul King as I’m sure he’d love to know how to get 10,000 fans ‘likely’ attending Salford games. 
 

If you want a good-faith discussion on the viability of our various stadium options then please direct this to the Moor Lane thread so as not to pollute the attendances thread further. 
 

However, your obsession with capacity and complete ignorance of geography does not suggest you understand the crux of the discussion amongst Salford fans re AJ Bell/Moor Lane. 
 

I’ll leave it at that 

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1 minute ago, Ray Cashmere said:

‘Likely’?! Please submit your business plan to Paul King as I’m sure he’d love to know how to get 10,000 fans ‘likely’ attending Salford games. 
 

If you want a good-faith discussion on the viability of our various stadium options then please direct this to the Moor Lane thread so as not to pollute the attendances thread further. 
 

However, your obsession with capacity and complete ignorance of geography does not suggest you understand the crux of the discussion amongst Salford fans re AJ Bell/Moor Lane. 
 

I’ll leave it at that 

I think he's suggesting that approx 10,000 different people will attend the AJ as a home fan over a season , not an unreasonable estimate IMO 

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1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

I think he's suggesting that approx 10,000 different people will attend the AJ as a home fan over a season , not an unreasonable estimate IMO 

It might or might not be an unreasonable estimate but what it is is a figure plucked out of thin air 

Edited by Ray Cashmere
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3 minutes ago, Ray Cashmere said:

It might or might not be an unreasonable estimate but what it is is a figure plucked out of thin air 

I don't disagree , what would be your guess Ray ? 

What sort of numbers did you take to the GF and Wembley ? 

Edited by GUBRATS
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4 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

I don't disagree , what would be your guess Ray ? 

What sort of numbers did you take to the GF and Wembley ? 

My guess wouldn’t be worth the paper it’s written on and I go every week!

Well we took 0 to Wembley thanks to COVID but the Grand Final had anywhere between 12,000 and 20,000 ‘Salfordians’ (ie supporting Salford due to more than disliking/loathing St Helens) as a rough estimate. 
 

Now I’d love to know the data on all those people in order to encourage them to come every week but I can guarantee you they don’t see the AJ Bell as an attractive stadium experience and don’t live on the largely derelict land around Barton with the sub-standard transport infrastructure. 

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1 minute ago, Ray Cashmere said:

My guess wouldn’t be worth the paper it’s written on and I go every week!

Well we took 0 to Wembley thanks to COVID but the Grand Final had anywhere between 12,000 and 20,000 ‘Salfordians’ (ie supporting Salford due to more than disliking/loathing St Helens) as a rough estimate. 
 

Now I’d love to know the data on all those people in order to encourage them to come every week but I can guarantee you they don’t see the AJ Bell as an attractive stadium experience and don’t live on the largely derelict land around Barton with the sub-standard transport infrastructure. 

Sorry mate I'd genuinely forgotten about the Covid final , it is a difficult one , hope the right decision is made in the end 

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Aside from my clear prejudice against Salford I have to agree with @Ray Cashmere . The current ground was built when everyone would own a car.  That world is dead.  If you live in cities only the rich drive.  

Salford if they get a 7k stadium over time will be fine and if its a stadium they can use 10 till 10 365 will offer more to the game. 

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8 hours ago, Ray Cashmere said:

As stated in the Moor Lane thread, if Salford proceed with Moor Lane it will be a minimum 15 year lease with full control over naming rights and sponsorship and full control of all matchday revenues (unless anything has materially changed from the last fans’ forum). 
 

Commercially, that is as good as owning the freehold (if you want to argue that it isn’t I refer you to my posts on the Moor Lane thread). 

So no Salford will not own Moor Lane they will be renting. Salford are not going to take out a 15 year lease on Moor Lane and develop the ground. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded.

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15 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

So no Salford will not own Moor Lane they will be renting. Salford are not going to take out a 15 year lease on Moor Lane and develop the ground. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded.

Do you know more about this than everyone else then? How long will the lease be? 

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8 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

 The current ground was built when everyone would own a car.  That world is dead.  If you live in cities only the rich drive.  

What on earth are you on about here mate? That just blatantly isn’t true in any way. 

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28 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Do you know more about this than everyone else then? How long will the lease be? 

In fairness they quoted a post stating that the 15 years number came from the Salford fans forum. 

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13 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

In fairness they quoted a post stating that the 15 years number came from the Salford fans forum. 

Not even from the club? Oh, I see.

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14 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

No the fan forum the club held with the fans to discuss the move, so the club yes.

Ah right, sorry I thought you meant some fan had posted it on an internet forum 😂

In that case Sir Kev does seem to have some extra info as he says they’re not signing a 15 year lease. Would be interested to know what it is? 

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3 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Ah right, sorry I thought you meant some fan had posted it on an internet forum 😂

In that case Sir Kev does seem to have some extra info as he says they’re not signing a 15 year lease. Would be interested to know what it is? 

Fair enough.

I think you are misreading his point though. He is saying that Salford are unlikely to spend significant sums to renovate the ground if they only have a 15 Year Lease.

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12 hours ago, idrewthehaggis said:

Salford centre of attention again.

Keep it going kids!

Said this before, but increasing attendance should be a priority now. 

We need a collective effort to do so. it makes sense.

More punters-more money-less dependence on TV money.

It being RL we will get dinky little half efforts and countless distractors.

Owning your ground is cute, but owning all monies derived from it is cuter. 

The other sensible idea I wished we had done is a Fans Bond scheme.

Did I hear a squeak in the dark corner asking how clubs play for ground improvements?

Well one way are Bonds. Here in Shock City it funded FC United's ground and the Manchester Ship Canal.

Other ways for any budding business students on here. 

Government loans/grants.

Local government loans/grants.

Third sector grants/loans ie Sports England.

Supporter donations.

Club Development Fund

Community Shares

Crowdfunding

Loan stock scheme

Match day pennies in a tub

Increasing your already huge club debt by taking out even more debt Ian.

Private equity.

whip round on the coach home 

Blah, blah. It will be built. 

Yep as expected didn’t take line for the Salford bashing to start on the attendance thread!

Truth is there were 4K in the soulless AJ Bell for the season opener with Toulouse. That’s a really encouraging start after a dreadful last campaign and no away fans. Take away the Hull fans and Wakefield had pretty much the same the other week - but they get a free pass compared to little old Salford.

We all know the ground situation is not good. We all know the AJ Bell is badly designed and in the wrong place. We all know that historically we get low crowds etc etc.

Can we build this year and increase attendances should be the main question on this thread.

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1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

Fair enough.

I think you are misreading his point though. He is saying that Salford are unlikely to spend significant sums to renovate the ground if they only have a 15 Year Lease.

Looking over reports from the end of last year, they will have to spend *some* money (whether that counts as significant or not, who knows) to get the ground up to standard for Super League - and, ironically, some of the work may reduce the capacity a little bit.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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22 minutes ago, theswanmcr said:

Yep as expected didn’t take line for the Salford bashing to start on the attendance thread!

Truth is there were 4K in the soulless AJ Bell for the season opener with Toulouse. That’s a really encouraging start after a dreadful last campaign and no away fans. Take away the Hull fans and Wakefield had pretty much the same the other week - but they get a free pass compared to little old Salford.

We all know the ground situation is not good. We all know the AJ Bell is badly designed and in the wrong place. We all know that historically we get low crowds etc etc.

Can we build this year and increase attendances should be the main question on this thread.

I think your right of course.  Although I think the club (Salford) should also not forget the corporate/hospitality revenue stream.  I'm guessing that the club didn't benefit from such at the AJ Bell but at least the large function room and other plus the good parking if fortunate to be using such gave good corporate and hospitality opportunities. 

 

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35 minutes ago, theswanmcr said:

Yep as expected didn’t take line for the Salford bashing to start on the attendance thread!

Truth is there were 4K in the soulless AJ Bell for the season opener with Toulouse. That’s a really encouraging start after a dreadful last campaign and no away fans. Take away the Hull fans and Wakefield had pretty much the same the other week - but they get a free pass compared to little old Salford.

We all know the ground situation is not good. We all know the AJ Bell is badly designed and in the wrong place. We all know that historically we get low crowds etc etc.

Can we build this year and increase attendances should be the main question on this thread.

Yes, everyone loves Wakefield. 🙄

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8 minutes ago, redjonn said:

I think your right of course.  Although I think the club (Salford) should also not forget the corporate/hospitality revenue stream.  I'm guessing that the club didn't benefit from such at the AJ Bell but at least the large function room and other plus the good parking if fortunate to be using such gave good corporate and hospitality opportunities. 

 

Good point on corporates - we always played Friday nights at Willows for this. Of course the AJ Bell is good for these facilities and Ray C may have more idea on hospitality revenues

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1 minute ago, Dave T said:

Yes, everyone loves Wakefield. 🙄

Is that you’re only take on that? My point was that because Salford have a new stadium - and therefore to some on here they should automatically be a huge success - they get way more attention on attendances than other clubs.

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