The Nickname, The Moniker, The Mascot

[devonhawk]

6 minutes ago, Damien said:

Im not sure why you are quoting me and asking me this. I'm not really interested in the ins and outs of other clubs and why they haven't changed.

It's irrelevant to the old Exeter Chiefs imagery being offensive to native Americans, hence them complaining. You don't think it was offensive, native Americans did. Exeter have now changed their imagery to not misappropriate native American culture so no more complaints.

My bad. I thought that’s how forums worked. I didn’t realise you could quote somebody, but then that person couldn’t quote you back. I feel a bit daft now…

 

[theswanmcr]

6 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Probably upset some woke individuals in Kansas

 

[Damien]

6 minutes ago, devonhawk said:

My bad. I thought that’s how forums worked. I didn’t realise you could quote somebody, but then that person couldn’t quote you back. I feel a bit daft now…

 

Well it does when it's related. You just shifted to something that was completely irrelevant to whether native Americans were offended by Exeter Chiefs.

[devonhawk]

1 minute ago, Damien said:

Well it does when it's related. You just shifted to something that was completely irrelevant to whether native Americans were offended by Exeter Chiefs.

Thank you sir, we’ll done you sir…

[Leyther_Matt]

43 minutes ago, devonhawk said:

Why are Kansas City, still Chiefs, Cleveland still Indians and Atlanta still Braves? 

And Exeter are remaining as the Chiefs too, aren’t they? Just changing their badge and branding to something a little less American Indian. And, of course, in such a discussion it’s only fair to mention the team formerly known as the Washington Redskins…

[pahars]

2 hours ago, devonhawk said:

Why are Kansas City, still Chiefs, Cleveland still Indians and Atlanta still Braves? 

It’s been Cleveland Guardians for a few months now. Edmonton Eskimos has recently rebranded to Elks and obviously Washington became the Commanders last week. These names were all considered inaccurate and/or insulting to the Native American and Inuit communities. 
 

Chiefs and Braves are still going because those words on their own aren’t insulting. Now that the more offensive team names have been changed the focus will turn on them and they will have to at the very least remove the Native American imagery in the branding. 

[Pulga]

I play and coach for the Stanthorpe Gremlins.

[idrewthehaggis]

Exeter Chiefs

In our post post modernist world, demonstrative declarations of admiration for native American warrior hood is mere offence now. Yes Calvin, it might have been acceptable in the 80's, but not now.

Still crude all that happened is a badge alteration. 

Sale Sharks.

In the historical lexicon of Cheshire and Manchester, I do not recall a Shark having any relevance.

A worker bee - yes.

A grinning Cat - yup.

But shark, not even late down the Ship Canal. 

You can imagine it at the PR consultancy "brain storm" (as they would have been called then) and Hugo and Clemency are debating what rhythms with Sale.

In the great alliteration game, clearly they ditched Sailors, Smugglers, Skinny Dippers, Saints, Swans, Seagulls, Shamen, Sanitarians and so on.

Meanwhile the more robust RL would have merely looked at the average remaining punter on a Friday nigh/Saturday morning 2am in Leeds and Wigan, where a many rhino lass and warrior laddie is abound.

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2022 by idrewthehaggis

[Anita Bath]

10 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Some good ones Down Under

 

 

You have missed the one and only………

……..Toowoomba Clydesdales

 

Sadly it seems that the planned introduction of a Toowoomba based team to the QRL in 2023 will be under the awful moniker of the western mustangs.

 

Western bloody what? There is already a canadian college team called that anyway so cannot even claim to be original.

 

Yes they already have a team in the Mal Meninga Cup with that name….sacriledge. 

 

No respect for history anymore. Bring back the Clydesdales! A team and town with a proud history.

[Sports Prophet]

15 hours ago, Jughead said:

Australian amateur clubs have belting names, much better than English clubs. 

Binnaway Bombshells, Grafton Ghosts, Aurora Valley Axemen, Woolgoolga Seahorses, Old Bar Beach Pirates, Port City Breakers and Parkes Spacemen come to mind. 

Hammersmith Hills Hoists is still my favourite

[Sports Prophet]

9 hours ago, theswanmcr said:

 

Look at the clever clogs using a meme in the forum. Teach us all

Edited February 12, 2022 by Sports Prophet

[Sports Prophet]

8 hours ago, Leyther_Matt said:

And Exeter are remaining as the Chiefs too, aren’t they? Just changing their badge and branding to something a little less American Indian. And, of course, in such a discussion it’s only fair to mention the team formerly known as the Washington Redskins…

I never saw the logo. Just goggled it now.

What on earth do people find offensive about an American Indian as a mascot/moniker?

[gingerjon]

42 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

I never saw the logo. Just goggled it now.

What on earth do people find offensive about an American Indian as a mascot/moniker?

You could always ask them.

Although they already have done a lot of explaining.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/59247839

[Eddie]

8 hours ago, pahars said:

It’s been Cleveland Guardians for a few months now. Edmonton Eskimos has recently rebranded to Elks and obviously Washington became the Commanders last week. These names were all considered inaccurate and/or insulting to the Native American and Inuit communities. 
 

Chiefs and Braves are still going because those words on their own aren’t insulting. Now that the more offensive team names have been changed the focus will turn on them and they will have to at the very least remove the Native American imagery in the branding. 

The KC Chiefs have an arrowhead as their branding, is that offensive to anyone? Also is the name Chief offensive to anyone? Redskins - yes clearly, and their badge, but Chief? 

[Sports Prophet]

3 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

You could always ask them.

Although they already have done a lot of explaining.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/59247839

Doesn’t really explain a lot. I don’t really care if people get offended about matters. I more care about what it is they find offensive. I am interested to know what the “dehumanising stereotype” that logo is perpetuating.

Then I can suitably make up my mind whether I also find it offensive, or if I think the NCAI are a bunch of drama queens.

As you seem to be interested in the subject too, if you know anymore, please enlighten me, whilst I await a response to my email to them per your suggested course of action.

[gingerjon]

Just now, Sports Prophet said:

Doesn’t really explain a lot. I don’t really care if people get offended about matters. I more care about what it is they find offensive. I am interested to know what the “dehumanising stereotype” that logo is perpetuating.

Then I can suitably make up my mind whether I also find it offensive, or if I think the NCAI are a bunch of drama queens.

As you seem to be interested in the subject too, if you know anymore, please enlighten me, whilst I await a response to my email to them per your suggested course of action.

They've been campaigning since 1968 so it's good that you're finally interested in why that might be.

There are substantial resources and explainers via a quick google. As this is the RL forum I'll leave it at that for now. We can take this to AOB/Politics if it needs continuing.

[Maximus Decimus]

As has been mentioned Halifax Blue Sox was a particularly bad one, but they saw the light. Hull Sharks was another that didn't seem to fit. Another one that seemed a bit cringe was Barrow Border Raiders.

It's hard to recall how disliked they were at first, and how they all seemed cringe in a British context. 25 years on, they're such a staple it's hard to remember them not being there.

I admire any club willing not to do the lazy alliteration thing!

 

[pahars]

22 minutes ago, Eddie said:

The KC Chiefs have an arrowhead as their branding, is that offensive to anyone? Also is the name Chief offensive to anyone? Redskins - yes clearly, and their badge, but Chief? 

It’s not really for white Englishmen to decide what Native Americans should get offended by. I believe they don’t like their heritage being used for entertainment purposes by a different culture. 

[Rach]

33 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

Another one that seemed a bit cringe was Barrow Border Raiders.

 

 

 

The Barrow name came about after they 'merged' with the Carlisle Club who were known as the Border Raiders , which looking at the City's geographical position and history was probably one of the more  well thought out club nicknames of the the time,though obviously not for a club many miles from the Scottish border hence the fairly quick transformation to just plain Raiders for Barrow 

Barrow ironically were for a time known as the Braves with a similar badge and branding to that that has been replaced at Exeter Chiefs ( foam tomahawk anyone ) so were  it not for the Raiders moniker we could have been looking at rugby league being under the same scrutiny as RU and American Football is at present over club names . 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2022 by Rach

[Maximus Decimus]

29 minutes ago, Rach said:

The Barrow name came about after they 'merged' with the Carlisle Club who were known as the Border Raiders , which looking at the City's geographical position and history was probably one of the more  well thought out club nicknames of the the time,though obviously not for a club many miles from the Scottish border hence the fairly quick transformation to just plain Raiders for Barrow 

Barrow ironically were for a time known as the Braves with a similar badge and branding to that that has been replaced at Exeter Chiefs ( foam tomahawk anyone ) so were  it not for the Raiders moniker we could have been looking at rugby league being under the same scrutiny as RU and American Football is at present over club names . 

 

 

In the same division as the Chorley Chieftains nonetheless. 

The use of Native Americans for monikers in this country at least is strange when you think about it. I can't think of any other historical groups that are used like this (Sarries aside of course). I could only imagine the:

The Widnes Khans

St Helens Zulus

Barrow Ninjas

[theswanmcr]

1 hour ago, Sports Prophet said:

Then I can suitably make up my mind whether I also find it offensive, or if I think the NCAI are a bunch of drama queens.

It doesn’t matter whether you find it offensive or not - you’re not the group potentially being offended.

And if a group does find it offensive then of course it’s your right to call them drama queens if you want - but your personal viewpoint is not from a member of that group.

I couldn’t really care less either way but if a group is offended, and has long called for this change, then it’s just common decency - not some nonsense ‘woke’ catchphrase - to look at it again.

[Henson Park Old Firm]

Both blue sox and panthers are stupid names. Halifax should have just been named the blues. "Halifax Blues"

 

[Jughead]

I quite liked the Halifax Blue Sox. It was different from the lazy “let’s just think of an alliterative predatory animal or historical group and go with that” like pretty much everyone else did around that time. 

[Damien]

42 minutes ago, Henson Park Old Firm said:

Both blue sox and panthers are stupid names. Halifax should have just been named the blues. "Halifax Blues"

 

Even Halifax fans didn't want Blue Sox at the time and overwhelmingly voted for bombers in a poll. When you completely ignore your fanbase and one person thinks he knows best then these things tend to fail.

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, Maximus Decimus said:

Another one that seemed a bit cringe was Barrow Border Raiders.

It did work well for Carlisle though. An example of a name that you did hear fans use and which seemed to fit the club.

I don't think there's ever any hard and fast rules for what will work and what doesn't. To my eye, for example, the Rhinos branding at Leeds is just really poor and yet it has obviously won people over and now is the natural name for the club.

As ever, though, I would advise anyone interested in such things to spend some happy hours trawling the Minor League Baseball website - or seeking out independent/unaffiliated baseball clubs and leagues in the US.