Clubs vs Teams - which is healthier?

[welshmagpie]

East Rugby League (the area around Bedfordshire, Cambridgeshire and so on) are rightfully boasting their excitement for the 2022 season (see Facebook) with what they think will be around 13 teams competing at different levels.

In the comments one person quite rightfully raises the question: “How will the new Cambridge team and the new Shelford team help the already established St Ives when we’re all within a stones throw of one and other - let’s get one team out regularly in Cambs at good strength!”

This comment made me think, what is better for rugby league?

Lots of teams operating out of (mainly) rugby union clubs in the off season OR a handful of clubs who are (or already do) actively pursuing their own premises I.e Hemel, Nottingham Outlaws etc.

A friend of mine made a valid point recently that many RU clubs are seeing the benefit of housing an RL team due to the year round income it provides and though regulations do get/remain hostile in areas, the bond of ‘rugby family’ has strengthened post-covid.

however, the bottom line and defining question… 60 teams south of Yorkshire or 20 clubs?

[JM2010]

I'd have to say clubs. Teams come and go due to having no juniors so they are basically starting from scratch each season. I'd like to see all those teams in the East (new and old) actively setting up and running junior sections

[Smudger06]

Yeah Clubs.....teams can vanish as quick as they appear whereas clubs can constantly regenerate teams and even hopefully put out an b side in East League and build towards an 'A' side in Southern Conference. Even build towards looking after some property, a clubhouse. 

[Archie Gordon]

A club obviously trumps a team but I think that an established club in an expansion area would rather see a couple of separate new teams start up rather than build up their own playing squad. 

So, for the example of St Ives, I imagine that if the folks behind these new teams said that they wanted to join the St Ives management committee and could bring some new sponsors and players, that would be welcome. But far better for these new folks to offer St Ives two new rival teams to play against. If one medium-sized club plus two local teams to play against doesn't deliver more sponsors and more players in the aggregate than just one big club, something has gone wrong IMO.

[Jughead]

Clubs tend to last longer than teams in any sport. 

[Damien]

Clubs without doubt.

[ELBOWSEYE]

In an ideal world clubs, but in certain circumstances it beneficial to have teams especially in RU dominant areas, if the teams build up a strong enough sector then if circumstances are right they could start up separately but having the finance for facilities is difficult and many established amateur league clubs benefitted from clubs that were work associated that eventually became theirs. 

[welshmagpie]

3 hours ago, JM2010 said:

I'd have to say clubs. Teams come and go due to having no juniors so they are basically starting from scratch each season. I'd like to see all those teams in the East (new and old) actively setting up and running junior sections

It should be a pre-requisite for all teams down south. 
 

I’d like to see the RFL demand that all teams(clubs?) over 18 months old run either an U14 or an U16 team and any club over 60 months old does both. 
 

This as you say is where teams begin to become clubs.

[JM2010]

24 minutes ago, welshmagpie said:

It should be a pre-requisite for all teams down south. 
 

I’d like to see the RFL demand that all teams(clubs?) over 18 months old run either an U14 or an U16 team and any club over 60 months old does both. 
 

This as you say is where teams begin to become clubs.

Completely agree. As well as u14/16s, I'd also make them run an u7/8s as this would build their juniors from the bottom up

[Archie Gordon]

I am wondering how a club can be forced to run a junior team? (I'm also wondering why but let's do the how first).

[welshmagpie]

19 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

I am wondering how a club can be forced to run a junior team? (I'm also wondering why but let's do the how first).

Edit: I read ‘forced’ as ‘afford’ so my apologies as my reply doesn’t quite make sense but nonetheless…
 

Fair questions. How? Train on the same evening - split the pitch in half or overlap by 20-30 mins? Train before a seniors match day? That’ll significantly cut much of the cost.

Why? It would save clubs a lot of recruitment headaches and would increase the quality as kids are immersed in RL nouse from a younger age.

The biggest Why? It improves and deepens England’s player pool. If 100 kids play RL around the Bristol/Bath/Swindon area and 2 go on to play professionally it’s two extra options to an otherwise saturated market.

[JM2010]

43 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

I am wondering how a club can be forced to run a junior team? (I'm also wondering why but let's do the how first).

Fair enough on how because it does take some organising and volunteers etc. 

I thought the why would be obvious

[bowes]

Generally clubs, but it gets more complicated once you start looking at places like Devon and Cornwall where one strong club might a face huge travel burden, whereas five teams can play a local league. 
 

Though I think the old Rugby League Conference’s mistake was to focus too heavily on the sheer number of clubs it could get into the competition, at the expense of trying to form clubs with deeper roots. In particular, there were never any serious efforts to expand the playing season into a full season from a three month RU off season competition. 

[Archie Gordon]

I understand why junior development is a good thing. I meant why try to demand/enforce it? I can completely understand why a bunch of twentysomething fellas would want to start a team without having any interest in the massive effort of also setting up a junior team who may not have anyone to play against. A group of Canvey RU players have set up an RL team. I'm hoping that they'll have a successful second season in 2022 but I wouldn't expect them to have any interest in running a kids team. Which I think is fine.

[Hemel Rugby League]

A 'club' is always the best option in the long term. But many 'clubs' become a collection of teams whose individual commitment to the 'club' wanes when playing days are over.

[fighting irish]

Listen fellas, there's a natural process at work here, which I'm suggesting accounts for 99.9% of all amateur rugby league clubs in the country.

Someone, in a new area, discovers the game and develops an avid interest in it.

He's young, intelligent and (a can do personality), probably a student, or an ex-student, he's fit and strong (athletic) and he's popular, so has a load of mates, of a similar ilk.

He starts canvassing them with stories of how great the game is and pretty quickly he convinces 8 or 9 of them to give it a go.

They start training, (he's knows the rules so slowly imparts his knowledge) and eventually he makes contact with his nearest opposition RL club.

Simultaneously, they are ''lads about town'' and they start telling ''everybody'' what their up to. They decide to base the team/club at their local pub (a much better option than a RU club).

They gather a few more players and then, when they have enough, they organise their first game.

They start collecting a few quid (every so often) and raise enough money for a set of kit (jerseys) and some creative amongst them comes up with a natty design.

This pretty much describes what happened at my own club. We ran it (my brother and I) for 18 years, but never started a junior section.

Bob Brown, (one of the founders of Hemel Hempstead) urged us to start selling beer and drawing in volunteers with a view to expanding the clubs operations (junior development) but we didn't expend any effort to do that.

In short, we didn't have a long term growth plan, nor any succession planning. When we stopped playing we ran the club (for others) for a few seasons, then we let it go and simply shut it down. 

The idea that someone, anyone (the league) could have compelled us to form a junior team is unrealistic. What would have happened, if we'd refused? Would the league have banned us, prevented other teams from playing us as punishment for our disobedience?

Come off it fellas? I put it to you, that the process I've described above accounts for the creation of 99.9% of all the amateur clubs in the country. I'm not saying it's the best way but I believe that's how it happens (in the absence of a professionally staffed, team of development officers).

Some (thankfully) like Hemel H will go on and create junior sections, staffed by willing volunteers and set down permanent roots in their community ensuring long term survival and growth and some will not.

I'll repeat that most if not all, will be formed by an entrepreneurial ''type'' who just wants to play the game.

When we started, our nearest opposition was 200 miles away in London, so we joined the London league, but we managed to make it work and kept it going for a generation, while assisting in the formation of other Welsh clubs and forming the WRL along the way.

What would have helped (us) to achieve more, much more efficiently, would have been a ''how to guide'' written by someone like Bob Brown, who learned it all the hard way, which would have emphasised the importance of succession planning and drawing in volunteers to organise and run junior sections in order to ensure the longevity of the club.

We did realise by the way, that it was a good idea to create junior sections but remember, we were operating in virgin territory, so we spent our time trying to stimulate growth in the small towns nearby so that we all had more local opposition. 

We are now blessed by having long established clubs (like Hemel) and a huge area, in the North East, which has mushroomed in a very short time. These people have achieved a huge amount and developed a great deal of expertise in the ''development'' business.

I would urge them (and the RFL) to write the ''how to guide'' so that their methods can be replicated (in the absence of professional development officers) by the would-be RL entrepreneurial types mentioned at the start of my story. Then, if funds allow, the game could offer and facilitate, local coaching and referees courses etc. to consolidate the local league.

With the growth of the game in the Universities and Colleges and the armed forces, the number of would-be pioneers is likely to increase, so let's help them with some valuable (but cheap to produce) resources.

I don't believe that trying to compel start-up clubs to ''grow'' faster than they feel inclined to do so, will ever work.